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Seems to be a hot topic here in the tech forum, but I have yet to find a good answer. I've heard many people here say WD-40 is the worst thing for a piano action, but I have found no hard evidence to prove that it really is harmful. I found a link to this thread...

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...3/topic/004701/Number/0/site_id/1#import

...that has a response from the makers of WD-40, and it stated that their product was safe to use on wood, including piano actions. I've heard many people here say that after a length of time, it causes the wood to turn "gummy" and hold up the parts. Is all of this just speculation or does someone here have proof that WD-40 ruins the action? And if so, can it be proven that it was the WD-40, and not another act or substance, that caused the damage? I know a tech who has been in the business for 30 years and believes WD-40 to be harmless.

If your piano is working OK, don't worry about it. What's done is done. Ever since I got involved with the piano business in the early 1990's I always heard the WD-40 was a no-no. So why take a chance?

Interestingly enough, I once asked Ulrich Gerhartz, head of Steinway concert services in London about Ballistol. He said they never use it and consider it to be like WD-40! Yet it's become somewhat popular in the United States the past few years.

Lubricants are, in general, overused in the piano business. They can seem like magic elixirs, or quick miracle cures, but they are often covering up another problem: surfaces not clean and/or smooth and polished as they should be, parts too tight, felt or leather worn out, etc. Ideally there should never be a need for anything but the very lightest of lubrication.

For action centers, I generally use Protek, but honestly I have no idea what the long term effects will be and am just trusting that because most of the top piano technicians feel comfortable with it, that its probably OK.

If I have a piano in the shop, my first choice is to use alcohol and water. It takes time to see the results, but it can work very well. A heat gun can speed up results.

I really can’t say that WD-40 is harmful to the action of a piano, I haven’t tried it. But there is no doubt that it is harmful to a pinblock and bass strings without trying it. That is reason enough to keep it away from a piano. There are other specific lubricants that are not in an aerosol can that can be used on a piano’s action. One accidental bump of the button and a piano could be ruined. Or if a well meaning DIY believes WD-40 is OK for some parts of a piano, it is a very small step away from deciding it is good for all parts of a piano.

It reminds me of an old black and white clip I once saw for DDT. It showed a bunch of kids in a swimming hole being fogged with the stuff to show how safe it was. Both DDT and WD-40 can be safely used, but since they might not be, it is better to use something else.

When I was a kid in Philly, about once a week the 'smoke man' came to our neighborhood in the summer. The truck he drove sprayed a thick fog of DDT the permeated the neighborhood, to take care of the mosquitos. We kids would run outside and play in the 'smoke'.

Ken

Well Ken, you are not only still alive, you are very capable of stringing a few sentences together in a meaningful way.

Proof that DDT is harmless!

To my best knowledge (as a qualified chemist, not a piano technician), all mineral and vegetable oils decompose with time (and exposure to air), becoming sticky and gummy. WD40, just like Ballistol, is a mineral oil.

Also, consider this: WD40 may not harm wood as such, but if the cloth bushings ever need to be renewed, oil-impregnated wood will not form a decent bond with glue.

My experience is that WD40 is good for a lot of things; removing scuff marks, displacing water, etc.

My question is why you would want to use oil on wood or felt.

That thread is just another debate thread, like this one! In the WD40 section that lists piano uses, there is also a disclaimer at the end that says words to the effect of not being tested, using common sense, etc.

If for nothing else, oil products getting into wood would, I think, cause problems when it's time to rebush centers, etc.

The top techs in the trade advise not to use the stuff on piano actions. That's good enough for me.

You are correct on this. WD 40 does leave a sticky residue after thouroughy drying.

It was not patented in order to keep its ingredients secret but in this day and age with GC and MS testing labs, the ingredients are known...

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/st_whatsinside

With some of the armoury work I did, we never used it in firearms. It got too sticky in the cold, it quickly collects and holds dirt and dust, and in mechanical closed spaces, it will disperse moisture to harder to reach areas like tiny cracks, corners, porous surfaces and other nooks and crannys. Most machine shops I know don't allow it to be used as a protectant on their machine tables any more for this and other reasons.

There are way better products for lubricating, protecting ect than something that basically has the same thing in it a lava lamp does. If your looking to protect steel from rust then you absoutely need a product that weighs more than water. For lubrication alone, synthetecs will outperform petroleum based lubricants in most cases now any ways IMHO.

I've seen quite a few uprights around my area that get the WD 40 "cat spray" treatment (my own term). We have a tech here that must have got a deal on a 40 gall drum of the stuff back in the 60's and is intent on using it up before he retires.

Protec, or Eezox in some cases, are the only things I would use around wood cloth or felt if its rarely needed. I also opt do give center pins a swipe through my hair before repinning.

White Soup,

I don't know what you mean by proof. If you will accept first hand direct experience, then I will tell you that I have personally seen more than 1 action seriously damaged by the use of WD-40. I attempted to clean out the green goo from the action centers of one Baldwin grand, and even after removing the pins, washing with Naptha, and refitting the bushings for new pins, it only worked reliably for a couple of years. In other words, the wood was so saturated that the lubricant couldn't be effectively cleaned out. The parts had to be replaced.

I know it was WD-40 because I knew the technician who had applied it as a shortcut to simply replacing the pins in the first place.

Don Mannino RPT

I do too! It really works! When my kids were in cloth diapers I found that the pins when through the cloth twice as easy if you rubbed it through your hair!

You know what else works? Rubbing front rail pins with your fingers after rubbing them on your nose or forehead. I heard this in a class once from a concert tech. I've seen dramatic friction reduction using this trick. AND its all natural!

Another objection to WD-40 is that it comes in a spray can. No lubricant should be sprayed willy-nilly through an action, especially if it's still in the piano. This is the I'll-just-hose-this-piano-down-to-clean-it approach.

--Cy--

Cy is right! Never spray. If you really want to get the lubricant in the action you need a dip tank!

WD-40 may well be “harmless” when used on wood but its use is not restricted to wood. Indeed, I can’t think of too many places where it would be applied only to wood. It is also used on felt bushings and this is where the problem shows up. I don’t know what you would regard as “proof” but I have replaced several sets of action parts that have been treated with WD-40. When you arrive at the piano and find a bunch of hammers pressed up against the strings and you have to reach through and push them down with a screwdriver to get the action out you pretty much know you have a problem. Unfortunately the tooner who sprayed the stuff on those flanges—and a few others—was long gone. Also unfortunately when it starts to gum up several years down the road I know of nothing that will clean the stuff out. Replacing the parts is the only practical cure.

ddf

I do that too. The girls that put the action parts together years ago in the factories here ran each centrepin through their hair as a matter of course.

Hey does anyone remember the former "tooner" in southern CA (San Diego area I think) who used to put weird things in pianos? He was kind-of before my time, but I've heard stories about the pianos he serviced. The man's initials are D.R. ... and I was wondering (if anyone knows who I'm talking about) what did he put in the pianos he serviced?

That trick with brushing hair with the pin sounds very logically to me. I have never heard that before, but I shall try it first thing tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.

As I understand, the main ingredient in the WD-40 formula is a kind of fish oil. Originally, the propellent was (believe it or not) propane. Yep.. but that is what dispersed the water. Now they use a CO2 propellent. The fish oil does gum. I have had varingly good/bad results with protek and am not sure that this is all it is cracked up to be either. I prefer to check the pins and bushings first before I spray, sometimes just an easing of these parts cures the problems easier and more satisfactorily for me at least. Yeah, more time involved, but I have a more intimate knowledge of the problem that way. Sometimes, just take the pin out and a little lube from running it in your hands (or hair as has been suggested) works great. A light reaming works the best often, and just running the pin out an back in works as good as anything. I have made the mistakes too, of lubing incorrectly in my early days, and had to go back and replace parts. In the process, I took the old parts and examnined and messed with solutions, and concluded that my lubing helped for a time, but was not a good fix. My opinion and experience, but I lube VERY rarely now. The only lubing I do at all now is a slight lubing of strings at the capo bar or agraffe if I suspect rust may be there.

Running a pin out and back can damage a bushing, though, sometimes. The blunt end that's been cut damages the felt if it's not a clean cut.