Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Stumped by a point in Arthur Reblitz's book

Dear technicians,

While reading through Arthur Reblitz's book (2nd. Ed.), the latter part of chapter five on regulating grand actions, I stumbled across the following:



Seeing that the keys were already leveled in the previous step, I suspect that the above is an error, and should read front rail punchings.

Or is the key dip on a grand really regulated on the balance rail?

Thanks for reading, and regards.

Yes. Sharps are first adjusted so that they are a dimes thickness when pressed down above the keytops at rest (up). Any discrepancy of aftertouch is adjusted by the height of the sharps on the basis that it is more important to preserve the feel of the sharp when down above the White keys when up. Any discernible discrepancy in the resulting level of the black keys can be traced back, it might even be a difference in the thickness of a buckskin r on the roller or on the knuckle. What you do from there depends on your level of fastidiousness. Replace the part or distribute the difference among the other dimensions. The technical term for this is 'fudging'. Fudging is not the policy of most of us, it is, however our practice and is a measure of how skilful you are, to make an undetectable fudge.
I agree. Reblitz is not clear on this and neither am I. It can be a difficult concept. Bear in mind that on shorter keysticks, the sharp dip is not necessarily the same as the dip of the White keys,aftertouch is however the same.

I've been wondering what I would have tattooed on me if I ever decided to get one. The search is over. Excellent!

I have a new goal in life, ... the quest for the undetectable fudge!

Mark,
The answer to your question is, yes, this is a misprint in Reblitz's book. You regulate key DIP at the FRONT rail, and LEVEL the keys at the balance rail. You cannot regulate the sharps by using a 3/8" key dip block either. That's where the Jaras tool, or a dime, comes in very handy.

[EDIT: oops, I just saw that CC2's answer came in while I was writing my post. Thanks, it's clear to me now! So don't bother about what follows below - I've struck it through.]

Thanks, rXd, for your answer.

Unfortunately, I'm somewhat confused by it.



Does this refer to my statement,



Or does your "yes" refer to my question,



If the latter is the case, it would appear that front rail punchings are not used at all in the regulation of a grand, and that the regulated action may have uneven (non-leveled) keys. It would seem so futile to level all keys in step 4, only to undo the leveling in step 5.

(Sorry, I hope I'm not being bothersome by trying to clear this up.)

Hmmm,

If you leave Santa “undetectable fudge” on Christmas Eve, will he leave “undetectable presents” under the tree?

Jeff. Depends on whether y been good or bad. Only Santa can detect that.

Mark. What I attempted to describe is the traditional factory way of doing this job. As you progress you will hear technicians talk of sharps 'burying themselves' there are good reasons for doing it the way Reblitz and I unsuccessfully described to you. If I were a pedantic old sod I would say the traditional way is right but for now, either way will work. I don't know the keystick length of your.Zimmerman but at 1929 I would guess it to be long enough that your sharps won't bury themselves. Do it CC2's way for now if it is easier but be aware there is another way that is not as easy but will be appropriate when you do finer work.
Sorry you didn't understand, it does seem a bit backwards. I created a bit of humor for my colleagues, though.

Now I have to figure out a way to be "undetectably bad". Oh, Fudge!

Thanks, rXd.

On re-reading a few times, I think I get your drift - the point being that all (depressed) sharps should be the same height above the (non-depressed) naturals, so the dip/aftertouch must be fine-regulated by changing the resting height of the key at the balance rail, rather than the bottom stop of the key at the front rail.

Well, my Zimmermann is a story unto myself. Many stories, actually. The tech I bought it from, fitted new plastic keytops that are obviously much thicker than the original celluloids were (the side of the lowest key is marked "Zelluloid" in pencil, hence I deduce it had celluloids) - and he did so without sanding the keysticks down first. The new keytops standing higher, meant he had to lift the sharps quite significantly at the balance rail - making it look like a corrugated plate...

Also, the balance rail pins on some sharps were severely bent towards the strings, 10° easily, if not more. Even to my beginner's eye, the balance rail really looked quite chaotic. I wondered why those pins were bent all over the show, and when I carefully bent a few of them back, the front end of the sharps got stuck on the plastic keytops. I deduced that the recesses for the sharps in the plastic tops had not been filed sufficiently in some cases, so when the sharps got caught against the white tops, the tech then went forth and bent the sharps' balance rail pins towards the strings - not my idea of a neat job - but that's one of many other stories. So I set about filing the plastics after getting the sharps back into a proper line.

Oh, and I like the idea of undetectable fudge - although I'm afraid my belt buckle is an extremely reliable detector of fudge (at least the edible type).

Thanks again, I appreciate the contributions.

Thanks Mark. I have been feeling honour bound to come up with something to match Jeffs comment but yours is better than anything I could come up with. You have effectively absolved me of a great responsibility.
With the your keyboard as you describe it, you already know plenty about sharps burying themselves. And a gross example of fudging. I was talking about hiding maybe 1/10mm among 5-6 different points of adjustment.

dime thickness, I have always used a nickle

I never knew they had dimes in England

I agree with Wayne though - a dime is too thin. 1.2 mm is not enough.

I've always heard a nickle too. A dime would not be very much. Of course you could use both and really "nickle and dime" your customers!

At least that's my 15 cents worth.

I'm in for a nickle.

I'll raise you a loonie!

That leaves only us Canucks in the game!

I always use a nickel because I'm too cheap to used a dime. A nickel is just right tickness

I'd add my 2 bits, but then that would be too much.

Thanks all, not only was my question answered and I learned something, but with everyone throwing their small change into this thread, to coin a phrase, I also had a good chuckle in the process!

[quote=Supply][quote=rxd]

I never knew they had dimes in England.

We don't. I use a tanner or a bob. A florin is too thick You always lose on the exchange rate anyway.

With thick plastic keytops I'd tend towards a minimum sharp height but let's not get into fudging again. Just so's the sharps don't bury themselves and then some.
I feel like I'm burying myself in this. It's all too deep for me. I'll see if I can rise above it. If the regulations permit.