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New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel #1571248
12/06/10 01:01 PM
12/06/10 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
BazC Offline OP
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BazC  Offline OP
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Cambridgeshire, UK
A make preferred by Chopin apparently - very nice addition and free to boot!


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Korg SP200, Pianoteq
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Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571428
12/06/10 05:17 PM
12/06/10 05:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,111
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Thanks for the heads-up BazC - a nice early Christmas present for Pianoteq fans...gotta love Modartt!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571751
12/07/10 05:36 AM
12/07/10 05:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
BazC Offline OP
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Cambridgeshire, UK
You're welcome, I like it a lot, it has the depth of the K1 without so much weight. It's great for ragtime and bluesy stuff as well as classical and baroque. Very versatile instrument!


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Korg SP200, Pianoteq
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571796
12/07/10 08:20 AM
12/07/10 08:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 448
Hamburg, Germany
Martin C. Doege Offline
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Martin C. Doege  Offline
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Hamburg, Germany
That Pleyel is my new favorite! Time to update my signature I guess. smile

It's the first KIViR instrument that's actually useful as more than a curiosity IMO. Although I love the harpsichords and bells and carillons too.

Martin


Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571802
12/07/10 08:24 AM
12/07/10 08:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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CyberGene  Online Content
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Sofia, Bulgaria
To my ears the demo has nothing to do with a period Pleyel as may be heard on numerous recordings. It's just the same ringing metallic sound that can be heard on all other Pianoteq models. After listening to it for more than 30 seconds I begin to ask myself if that's actually a piano or a gipsy's cimbalom. I still believe in Pianoteq but whenever I try to share a constructive criticism on the Pianoteq forum, I face the fanatic "Pianoteq Taliban" people who are ready to declare a sacred war on me just because I dared to think the sound could have been better.

Last edited by CyberGene; 12/07/10 08:26 AM.

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Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: Martin C. Doege] #1571811
12/07/10 08:45 AM
12/07/10 08:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
BazC Offline OP
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BazC  Offline OP
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Cambridgeshire, UK
Originally Posted by Martin C. Doege
That Pleyel is my new favorite! Time to update my signature I guess. smile


Yes I think I'll be using it a lot, it certainly eclipses the earlier KIViR instruments, it would be nice if they updated the older ones with what seems to be new algorithms used on the K1 and Playel.

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I still believe in Pianoteq but whenever I try to share a constructive criticism on the Pianoteq forum, I face the fanatic "Pianoteq Taliban" people who are ready to declare a sacred war on me just because I dared to think the sound could have been better.


Yes that's kind of how I feel whenever I have the gall to mention Pianoteq on this forum only to be met with howls of derision from the sampling zealots here. If you use phrases like "After listening to it for more than 30 seconds I begin to ask myself if that's actually a piano or a gipsy's cimbalom." I'm not surprised your comments are met with hostility.

For the record I think Modartt have pretty much cracked it with the latest models, the K1 and Pleyel sound as close to real piano to me as makes no difference, yes the best sampled pianos probably sound better but frankly I don't care. I think Pianoteq is astounding software which is only going to get even better.

Last edited by BazC; 12/07/10 09:11 AM.

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Korg SP200, Pianoteq
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571833
12/07/10 09:14 AM
12/07/10 09:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 448
Hamburg, Germany
Martin C. Doege Offline
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Martin C. Doege  Offline
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Posts: 448
Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted by BazC


Yes I think I'll be using it a lot, it certainly eclipses the earlier KIViR instruments, it would be nice if they updated the older ones with what seems to be new algorithms used on the K1 and Playel.


I suppose those historical instruments are mostly commissions for museums, so as soon as a version is done (e.g. the √Črard), there's probably no money left to improve the instrument later. So maybe there should be a commercial add-on for historical instruments to provide some financial incentive to the PT developers.

Originally Posted by BazC


Yes that's kind of how I feel whenever I have the gall to mention Pianoteq on this forum only to be met with howls of derision from the sampling zealots here. If you use phrases like "After listening to it for more than 30 seconds I begin to ask myself if that's actually a piano or a gipsy's cimbalom." I'm not surprised they're met with hostility.

For the record I think Modartt have pretty much cracked it with the latest models, the K1 and Pleyel sound as close to real piano to me as makes no difference, yes the best sampled pianos probably sound better but frankly I don't care. I think Pianoteq is astounding software which is only going to get even better.


Yes, the K1 and Pleyel are light years ahead of what PT used to stand for (e.g., the terribly-sounding C3). So those who still criticize the sound are now mostly just trolling I think.

The main remaining weakness of PT where sampled pianos excel are probably the fortissimos. But otherwise it's pretty decent and the difference to an excellent sampled piano is no longer that great IMO. Add to that the facts that PT needs very little hard drive space and doesn't use a dongle like Ivory, which are also important considerations for some.

Martin


Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571850
12/07/10 09:39 AM
12/07/10 09:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
3000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
BazC, that's what I feel really. I know it may sound offensive but the sound is closer to a Cimbalom. I can try to use non-offensive words like "lacking woodiness" but it would be too abstract.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571863
12/07/10 10:04 AM
12/07/10 10:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
BazC Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
BazC  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
Seriously? Sorry but find it hard to believe you really mean that, I've never heard a Cymbalom in the flesh but I just googled it and listened to a few recordings and nothing in Pianoteq (apart from the Cymbalom!) sounds remotely like that. Is it really possible that we hear such drastically differing sounds when we listen to the same thing? Granted at the highest velocities there's maybe still a tiny bit too much metallicity in PTQs sound but in saying that I think I'm being extraordinarily picky.

You have to admit too that going on to a developers own forum and basically saying "your product still sounds like crap" is likely to upset a few people? Whatever, I love the new pianos and so do plenty of others so I'm sure Modartt will continue to do well.

For what it's worth I have been victim of the Pianoteq zealots on the PTQ forums and I'm a PTQ enthusiast so I do understand where you're coming from!


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Korg SP200, Pianoteq
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571868
12/07/10 10:11 AM
12/07/10 10:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
3000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
In fact, I can't remember saying "crap" or any other bad word on the Pianoteq forums. I haven't even brought the cymbalom comparison. What I was talking was "metallic sound". People there seem to be offended even by that.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571884
12/07/10 10:36 AM
12/07/10 10:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
BazC Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
BazC  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
Sorry mate but I'm forced to take your statements with a pinch of salt. I just did a search of the Pianoteq forums and the only thread I can find here where you make criticisms of Pianoteq you started in a confrontational manner and received quite reasonable responses for the most part. I believe one person did suggest if you don't like PTQ you should use something else - quite a reasonable if not friendly suggestion. Hardly declaring a Jihad is it?

At any rate I agree there are a few over there who get overly defensive about Pianoteq it annoys me too. It also annoys me that any mention of Pianoteq here always seems to warrant a barrage of criticism - that's the internet for you I guess.


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Korg SP200, Pianoteq
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571886
12/07/10 10:40 AM
12/07/10 10:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
3000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
Where is the confrontation in my post???


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571888
12/07/10 10:44 AM
12/07/10 10:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
BazC Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
BazC  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
You're kidding right?

"First of all I would like to kindly request all those Pianoteq-fanatics who are ready to kill somebody for not liking Pianoteq to just skip that thread."


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Korg SP200, Pianoteq
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571896
12/07/10 11:02 AM
12/07/10 11:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
3000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
I wanted a peaceful discussion that's why I have requested those people to stay aside. I can't understand your point. If you feel offended by something like that, then you probably recognize yourself in the description. If you recognize yourself in that description and still answer, then you are the one who starts the confrontation, not me.

By the way, I did a little research and found that really funny topic where you show the urge to disclose and punish the criminals who dared to open the Pianoteq archive and check what's inside grin That still deservs a good portion of laughing but it seemed you didn't like my comment at all then and you seem very serious about preserving the holiness of your Pianoteq religion, so I will respect that wink


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571906
12/07/10 11:13 AM
12/07/10 11:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 722
Cambridgeshire, UK
BazC Offline OP
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BazC  Offline OP
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Cambridgeshire, UK
OK I agree you were'nt trying to pick a fight then and you're not now either. I'm a Pianoteq fanatic and you're a sweet innocent who's just trying to help.

Gosh I've been so blind!


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Korg SP200, Pianoteq
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1571911
12/07/10 11:20 AM
12/07/10 11:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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CyberGene  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Sofia, Bulgaria
If you notice, my question was towards Pianoteq creators. They answered to me and in fact it was very peaceful discussion if we ignore the usual zealot stuffing.

I was asking if I should expect Pianoteq to be upgraded, if it has reached its limit, etc. and a guy (not a developer) told me he didn't care if I use Pianoteq or any other software. But my question was not "guys, do you care if I use any other software piano". So, in other words he told me that I either believe in God without asking questions, or switch to another religion. Here comes the misunderstanding - I am looking to use Pianoteq as a software which I believe it is, and not as a Holy Scripture or something like that.

Last edited by CyberGene; 12/07/10 11:26 AM.

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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
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Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: CyberGene] #1572086
12/07/10 04:07 PM
12/07/10 04:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 328
Italy
Qbert Offline
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Qbert  Offline
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Italy
Originally Posted by CyberGene
BazC, that's what I feel really. I know it may sound offensive but the sound is closer to a Cimbalom. I can try to use non-offensive words like "lacking woodiness" but it would be too abstract.


I didn't like it neither, at first.

BUT I had the chance to try the last version (trial 3.6) with external DAC and good headphone (AKG 240). I can assure that, after few tweakings, it sounds REALLY authentic! I completaly changed my mind about Pianoteq.


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: BazC] #1572091
12/07/10 04:19 PM
12/07/10 04:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 246
M
MarcoM Offline
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the new user preset for the K1 (used in the 'la campanella' demo just under the pleyel) seems quite interesting as well

Re: New historic piano for Pianoteq - 1926 model F Pleyel [Re: MarcoM] #1572122
12/07/10 05:10 PM
12/07/10 05:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 722
Atlanta, GA
J
Jake Jackson Offline
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Posts: 722
Atlanta, GA
(If you're getting a metallic sound, try adjusting the velocity curve in PianoTeq. Something else I've been experimenting with lately is adjusting the damper pedal curve fairly dramatically, creating a deep dip to the right. Doesn't affect any metallic qualities, but I'm finding that my half-damper pedal has been releasing the "dampers" too quickly.)


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