Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Will Accoustic Piano Ultimately Go Away Like The Typewriter?

Then maybe you should give it a rest. You don't want to become the snazzyplayer of the Piano Forum, do you?

Even though the Avant satisfies your personal requirements for an instrument, it will not satisfy everyone's. Also, the line of demarcation that you aree drawing between it and all other digital pianos is really just a reflection of your own priorities. Another person could say that he bought a certain Kawai model because it satisfied his requirement for a wooden action. Another could say that he bought a Roland V for its abilities to customize the sound. The Avant doesn't work for everyone. A lot of us need a measure of portability more than we need its grand piano action, impressive array of speakers, or stylish cabinet. For someof us it's just too expensive to make sense.

The success of digital pianos in general is based on cost/performance, availability through sales channels that most people seem to prefer these days, diverse functions at the push of a button, connectivity to other electronic faves such as the personal computer, and the privacy it allows for one to experience one's own music of choice, whether as a player or as a listener.

In contemporary society in developed countries there are many indications that people prefer to communicate electronically. Members of a family or living group spend more time at their individual computers than they do communicating with each other. Many young people prefer text messaging to being up close and personal or even vocalizing over a bandwidth. A music player with headphones allows for a cozy retreat into the world of one's own preference rather than sharing the music of others. All of this may be seen as good or bad depending on your point of view.

To access what one wants and avoid what one doesn't want, electronic connectivity is king. The acoustic piano has no provision for that. I hope it survives and have many reasons to think that it will, but it's going to be expensive. There's no doubt that labor costs are rising in China. There's no doubt that Indonesia is only a transitional stop for piano manufacture in that its domestic sales market for acoustic pianos is tiny. There's no doubt that piano makers in developed countries will need to fetch high prices to sustain low production numbers.

Let's just hope that those who have the passion have the coin, and that those less fortunate can satisfy their needs and wants from the used market.

Also, the line of demarcation that you aree drawing between it and all other digital pianos is really just a reflection of your own priorities.

Well, yes and no. At the moment the AvantGrand is the only digital piano with a real grand piano action. That alone sets it apart from the other DP's. That's the only reason I bought. Had the N3 not been introduced I would have bought another GranTouch. For me (for practicing) the grand piano action comes first with the sound a very close second.

The snazzypiano remark - I don't know who that is or his history.

Completely correct.

And while being scoffed at by some, China will be the biggest ally for us poor Westeners.

Norbert

At present, the Chinese are buying acoustic pianos like there's no tomorrow, thus keeping the piano business afloat. The rich Chinese buy Steinway, Bosendorfer etc; the others buy Young Chang. The world of classical music is going to be kept alive by the Chinese, as more and more Westerners are brought up on X Factor, mediocrity and pop, and the only 'classical' music they'll ever hear is Roll Over Beethoven (where Roll Over are the first names of the composer called Beethoven).

"The world of classical music is going to be kept alive by the Chinese, as more and more Westerners are brought up on X Factor, mediocrity and pop, and the only 'classical' music they'll ever hear is Roll Over Beethoven (where Roll Over are the first names of the composer called Beethoven)."

It's actually worse than that. Mention Beethoven to lots of people and they think it's the name of a dog.

PS: DP's have an on/off switch. AP's can always be played.

PS: DP's have an on/off switch. AP's can always be played.

That's true though the better half and\or the neighbors might get annoyed depending on the time you decide always is. What you look at as an advantage can be easily turned into a disadvantage.

When I owned my C3 I had a deal worked out with a piano tuner\friend\trumpeter for whom I made specialized practice tapes. He tuned my C3 up to six times a year.

What does a typical tuning cost these days? How much would six tunings a year set me back today?

I think the fact that an acoustic piano can be played when the electricity fails is irrelevant unless one lives in a country like Iraq. In the U.S. I think the total time I've been without electricity during my entire life is about two days.

There have been a lot of fascinating perspectives from this post. Something that stands out is that the European members whom have commented seem to strongly feel that digitals will "take over". Each person has his own take on this matter--some opinions appear a bit subjective while other appear more objective.

It is difficult to ignore our own preferences, biases and personal experiences when speculating on the outcome of something which can only be guessed at.

Are decreased accoustic sales a more a statement of our battered U.S. economy (including, but not limited to, the declining middle class) or changing tastes in entertainment/music...or both?

Those that have played only accoustic or only digital are, in my (not so) humble opinion missing out on something very enjoyable. I tend to use my digital more as a practice piano and tend to spend more time on it than my grand. I use my grand for true playing/ performing and pure enjoyment. Please don't ask me to give one up but if I had to, I would definitely keep the accoustic grand! There is great virtue in both and I hope they both survive and thrive! It is indeed quite sad to see so many piano dealers closing up.

And Piano makers may find it less than profitable to sell in the US market, and concentrate instead on China and other developing countries.

Yeah, it's difficult, but many people don't even try. They display their biases like merit badges.

As Apple remarked, this doesn't have to be an either/or. If people want it to make it an either/or for themselves, that's fine. There are as as many members on the digital forum who dismiss acoustics as there are members here who belittle digitals.

However, if young people really want to become play-for-pay pianists these days -- even if they favor the classical repertoire and have a strong preference for acoustics --. they should become comfortable on a variety of digital keyboards including synthesizers and workstations. Regardless of what the instrument is, some players can extract more from it than others. Young players contemplating a keyboard career should learn to extract all that is musically available from each category and stay current with keyboard products as they evolve.

Short of those few elite pianists who are able to launch a concert career with a splash and sustain their popularity over a long career, precious few working pianists are able to call the shots on what they play and what they perform it on.



It's both, but there's something else involved. The retail model for piano sales, which seasoned pros like Steve Cohen defend as the only workable approach to marketing acoustic pianos, turns many people off these days. They don't want to deal with nebulous pricing, the Totentanz ritual of price negotiation, and commissioned sales pros with a canned spiel. That's true in any product category, not just pianos. It's too bad in a way because there are a lot of good piano sales pros who do listen and who do share good product knowledge with customers, but the arena in which piano selling is conducted simply turns many people off. That's why Sears finally ditched the salesmen in cheap suits and polyester ties standing around waiting for the next opportunity to move a dishwasher or refrigerator in favor of the Blue Crew. Most retail product categories have adapted to the times better than pianos, whatever the reason.

Yeah, but this is not the piano's fault - but the industry's.

When done conscientiously, there's nothing better than a professional piano place giving honest advice to sincere buyers.

Part of this advice sometimes can be that a piano in not perhaps meant for absolutely everybody on planet earth - and certainly not at "all cost"

Unfortunately, much of the industry sees things differently.

Trying to push piano as a commercial, money-making type gadget - "main thing customer buys" - is exactly what got much of the industry in the trouble it is in today.

Otherwise everything else appears to be pretty well the same as before.....

Norbert

Reliance on electricity can hardly rate as relevant these days. I well remember the time (as a keen photographer myself) when die-hard manual camera users (especially of Leica M, beloved of war photographers and Henri-Cartier Bresson of 'the decisive moment' fame) vowed never to use cameras that required batteries, because you can never rely on them. And subsequently ditto for auto-focus, ditto for digital (even more power-hungry than auto-focus, auto-everything). Now every photographer carries spare batteries, charger, memory cards, even solar charger....

Electricity is cheaper than tuners and technicians .

In many aspects, it turns out to be basically a matter of taste and/or preference. One customer yesterday, an older lady in her late 70's I would guess, says she cannot understand why some people do not seem to be able to tell the difference between a digital and a piano. I can, she said. I can too, I said. Those that work on them certainly can. Just as pipe organ tuners can tell the difference between a digital or a pipe organ.

The very next client mentioned that she thought they all sounded the same and that it didn't matter what brand was played. The point is, hearing and discerning differences. Some people can, some people can't, some people don't care.

I have Bose speakers setting on my computer desk. I listened to the Avante Grand sound. To me, while it does sound pretty good, there is a difference in sound. Just as there is to me, a difference in the talked about EBVT III tuning in the technicians thread verses the ET tuning.

Some people can easily tell the differences, others can't but, does that mean they should only buy digital's or pianos? Does that mean, I'm right because I prefer pianos? It just means, some people have a preference to what THEY THINK is the same sound as a piano. So what.

The basic question is and was, "Will Acoustic Piano Ultimately Go Away?" God only knows that answer for sure. I honestly believe it will come down to partially anyway, whether or not manufacturer's prefer to build quality pianos or junk pianos. Problem pianos require a lot more service than better built pianos do. In that case, digital units may then, ultimately win. Ahhh but, will the piano fade away eventually? I still highly doubt it. Sales are down but so is manufacturing in mostly all major companies. The economy sucked and still sucks.

With digital technology there are a couple of competing forces at play. On one hand there has been the tremendous growth in the consumption of low-fidelity music through the use of MP3 players and downloaded music files. This is a trend that has been driven by consumers voting for cost over quality, and arguably started with the replacement of vinyl with CD’s in the 1980s. On the other hand, it is now possible to set yourself up with a reasonably high-quality sound system with either a decent turntable or SACD player for less than $10,000. For those who argue there is no way to reproduce the physical presence of a pipe organ, just listen to something like the Anthony Newman recording of “Music for Organ, Brass and Timpani’ through a high-end surround-sound system. The effect is breathtaking. Digital technology will inevitably continue to improve a rate much faster than that of acoustic technology.

In my opinion digital pianos are already making low-end acoustic uprights obsolete. I do not believe there is any long-term future for acoustic pianos competing in a mass-production market. Acoustics will be specialty items, usually grands, for discerning consumers for whom the inherent value of the instrument has more to do with their own requirements than with more practical considerations of value.

I am inclined to agree with this analysis.

Norbert,

I don't disagree with you at all. I meant no slight to you, Steve, or any responsible piano retailer or sales pro. That's why I wrote in the same post that "It's too bad in a way because there are a lot of good piano sales pros who do listen and who do share good product knowledge with customers, but the arena in which piano selling is conducted simply turns many people off."

Personally, I have no fear of piano retailers (at this point), but how many people join this forum and offer up as a first post that they know little or nothing about pianos and feel at a disadvantage in selecting and buying one for their kids or even themselves? Pianos are slipping away from the public consciousness because they are all tucked away in specialty retail operations that get no foot traffic except for those who expressly have in mind to buy one, places that quite literally don't see the light of day because it's not good for the merchandise.

I don't want to harp on the pricing either, but it is a problem as well. I don't believe that most people will only buy the killer deal, but no one wants to be the rube who makes up for the killer deal that someone else got. The fear of the uninitiated to be exploited is real. People today don't want to hear about the need of the small retailer to obtain a higher margin because of his slow turn and high operating costs.

I'm not saying that the peculiarities of piano retail are as big a factor in declining sales as changing taste or the sour economy, but I honestly feel that it adds to the problem. I guess you're in a strip mall, so that's god. I've heard you serve excellent coffee and home-baked cookies. That's even better. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that your love of what you sell will complete the trifecta for those who venture into your shop. I wish you a great holiday selling season.

Probably they will overtake much of the acoustic market.

I have yet to see a speaker that can play back a piano convincingly.

Furthermore the digital piano sound is dead.

So as far as I am concerned, the DP might become a serious substitute when they can fix above issues.

However it's like MP3, it often sounds bad but almost everyone uses it. It seems most people don't hear the difference.

It may not be the biggest concern for most people, and I don't lose power often, but when the power does go out the first thing I do to entertain myself is sit my but down at the piano.

MP3's caught on not because folks couldn't hear the difference, it's because the convenience factors outweighed any loss in fidelity (kinda like the same argument when cd's came out and audiophiles the world over screamed about how the format was sonically inferior to LP's, they missed the point entirely). Apparently it turns out that the enjoyment of music goes beyond reproductive fidelity for a large portion of the listening public. Who'da thunk it?

Gosh! I guess that makes me a necrophiliac.


If the defining quality of acoustic pianos were lack of dependence on electricity, I think there would be occasional threads in this forum about battery-powered headlamps and kerosene lanterns.