Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
105 registered members (AlanB, ando, alfredo capurso, accordeur, AZ_Astro, amad23, 30 invisible), 2,007 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#1566381 - 11/29/10 02:30 PM Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video!  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Here's what happens when the weight of the arm has to be supported by the fingers - some pretty major tensions in the arm! (look away ladies of a delicate disposition)


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1566393 - 11/29/10 02:58 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 15,871
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 15,871
Boynton Beach, FL
Right, which is why one needs to be careful when using arm weight that they do not continue to press or use the weight after the key has been struck initially. smile


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#1566401 - 11/29/10 03:05 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Quite so! Release immédiatement!


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566473 - 11/29/10 05:56 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Nyiregyhazi  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
????????

That certainly doesn't happen when I rest the weight of my arm on my fingers. The elbow is visibly fixed in position rather than adequately released and so is the wrist. It looks far more like pressing through a hand with an arm that has NOT adequately released its weight in the first place. If that's truly "supporting weight", why are you moving around and seizing up so much? That's supporting heavily sustained muscle pressure, not relaxed weight.

If desired to do, for some perverse reason, I could make a video of myself moving my fingers while making an effort to seize up my wrist in response to every action (a trap that all too many sadly fall into) and say "here's what happens when you try to move the keys with your fingers" However, it certainly wouldn't reveal anything terribly worthwhile.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1566484 - 11/29/10 06:08 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
First you get me banned for two weeks because I dared to find your physics laughable then, as soon as I'm back you want a debate! Sorry mate, you're being ignored - please go back to your own thread.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566489 - 11/29/10 06:14 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 787
Gerard12 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Gerard12  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 787
South Carolina
Posting that video on Youtube under the moniker of 'keyboard class' is pretty irresponsible.


Piano instruction and performance
#1566492 - 11/29/10 06:19 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Any chance you'd enlighten me?


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566498 - 11/29/10 06:25 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Pogorelich.  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
not somewhere over the rainbow
But all you're doing is tensing up. I don't understand why you would do that? You're not supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers because the weight is stuck in your forearm and not moving due to you seizing up.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1566505 - 11/29/10 06:35 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Have you tried it yourself? I mean raising your arm from your finger tips and not taking the weight at the shoulder?


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566509 - 11/29/10 06:41 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Nyiregyhazi  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
If you can do a press-up, it's hardly that big an ask is it?

#1566514 - 11/29/10 06:47 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Pogorelich.  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
not somewhere over the rainbow
Yes? I don't see what that does have to do with anything..



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1566518 - 11/29/10 06:51 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: Pogorelich.]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Yes? I don't see what that does have to do with anything..
I just find the arm a very heavy thing to lift up onto the fingers - the resultant stress in the muscles just corroborate that.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566522 - 11/29/10 06:54 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Pogorelich.  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
not somewhere over the rainbow
Why would you? The weight goes into the keys. It doesn't seize up and stay in your arm or fingers. I'm talking about when you actually play, not use a table..



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1566524 - 11/29/10 06:56 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Yes but the fingers still handle as much weight. The only difference is the damaging bump when the key beds.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566530 - 11/29/10 07:01 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Pogorelich.  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
not somewhere over the rainbow
I don't understand why you would find it so difficult. It's simply the weight of the arm, and most times not even all of it, not ADDED weight from tensing/seizing up. That's how I've played and still play and haven't had any problems..

Last edited by Pogorelich.; 11/29/10 07:02 PM.


"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1566533 - 11/29/10 07:04 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
The less weight from the arm (and it isn't a 'simple' weight it's quite a heavy one) the more weight supported at the shoulder. The video is not about what happens if you only hold up some of the weight.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566534 - 11/29/10 07:09 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Nyiregyhazi  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
It's not about what happens when you hold all of the weight on the hand either. It about what happens when you hold most of the weight back stiffly and then press stiffly.

#1566535 - 11/29/10 07:10 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Pogorelich.  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,706
not somewhere over the rainbow
Yeah, when you play a fortissimo in something like Brahms or Rachmaninoff, how would you go in about it? How could you not have supportive fingers? How would you produce the sound at all?



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1566539 - 11/29/10 07:15 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Of course you'd have supportive fingers and as Morodiene says 'do not continue to press or use the weight after the key has been struck initially.'


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566552 - 11/29/10 07:34 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Basically what you are seeing are the flexors having to pull from their origin (the other side of the elbow (medial epicondyle) - so that stiffens), through the wrist (which has to stiffen other wise it gets pulled up by the flexors) through to each joint of the fingers (which are obviously tense as they support all the weight). Off to bed.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566562 - 11/29/10 07:53 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Nyiregyhazi  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,464
There's a simple way of avoiding all that. The upper arm releases enough for the elbow to be pulled backwards. The fingers exert enough of a forward pull upon the arm to cancel that. Hey presto- you have a totally free wrist and a forearm that is free enough to absorb the reaction forces. The wrist need not stiffen AT ALL if the elbow is being pulled lightly backwards by gravity, to counter it.

#1566686 - 11/29/10 11:29 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Canonie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
The position looks a bit awkward - maybe you are sitting too low? I am sure that my muscles don't do all that squirmy stuff when my fingers are supporting the weight of my forearm plus the pull of the upper arm backwards. I'm not sure that my muscles could do that!

If the finger has a lovely curve and is still it's amazing how much weight it can take. My cello teacher has an interesting excercise:

Let your arm hang by your side, your fingers will assume a natural curve.
Maintaining this curve, place a finger under one end of the piano bench,
straighten up a little and you will be able to lift the end of the bench with one finger acting as a hook.

Try again but this time lift the bench only using some kind of flexion of finger - and you can't do it!

I like to think of my hands as resilient, springy, curvy, athletic, and perfectly able to take the weight of arms at piano. After all there are lots of moments of rest:- after every staccato, every phrase end, big chords that you bounce off.
Just IMO, but that's the way I play.



[Linked Image]
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
#1566707 - 11/29/10 11:57 PM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,753
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member
jazzyprof  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,753
Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
I just find the arm a very heavy thing to lift up onto the fingers -

Really? How about balancing the whole body on the fingers? smile


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
#1566719 - 11/30/10 12:13 AM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,913
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member
david_a  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,913
A man's arm weighs about ten pounds.


(I'm a piano teacher.)
#1566720 - 11/30/10 12:13 AM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,710
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Orange Soda King  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,710
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
^ ^ ^
WIN.

EDIT: DANG IT DAVID. That meant to go to jazzyprof's vid. HAHA

Last edited by Orange Soda King; 11/30/10 12:14 AM.
#1566770 - 11/30/10 01:38 AM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: Orange Soda King]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,913
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member
david_a  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,913
Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
^ ^ ^
WIN.

EDIT: DANG IT DAVID. That meant to go to jazzyprof's vid. HAHA
Heh. I'll take the WIN anyway. My post was, like, uber-worthy. smile


(I'm a piano teacher.)
#1566802 - 11/30/10 02:42 AM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Thanks Dave. If any of you have a 10 lb bag of potatoes go give it a lift. Maybe balance it on your arm or hand/fingers.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566813 - 11/30/10 03:01 AM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: jazzyprof]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
I just find the arm a very heavy thing to lift up onto the fingers -

Really? How about balancing the whole body on the fingers? smile
I knew an octogenarian who did pushups on his fingertips - as many as you'd like! I do this daily:
[Linked Image]


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1566860 - 11/30/10 05:20 AM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Canonie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
well that explains your rippling muscles kbk laugh


[Linked Image]
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
#1566873 - 11/30/10 05:56 AM Re: Supporting the weight of the arm on the fingers - a video! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Not the undulating tummy though!


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How is Kawai's newest Millennium III action?
by James Guo. 06/25/17 12:22 PM
Kurzweil RG100SE, good action?
by Fscotte. 06/25/17 11:15 AM
Brian Crain - Song for Sienna
by TonyDIGITAL. 06/25/17 09:59 AM
Gaveau Upright 1928-29
by Petrol. 06/24/17 10:34 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,444
Posts2,638,884
Members88,180
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0