Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Will Accoustic Piano Ultimately Go Away Like The Typewriter?

Onion,

Thankfully our church still prefers an acoustic grand (we have a Kawai 6'8" which has a very full tone and long sustain), although we use digitals in some of our classrooms and in our church jazz band gigs. If I could carry a grand with me to those gigs, I would and so would the other members of the band. They prefer the sound of the acoustic grand too.

It's good to hear there are other pianists out there who still prefer acoustics. As long as there are enough of us, hopefully there will still be a few companies out there producing them.

"Never" is a really, really long time. Certainly not in my lifetime, but, never?

On the surface this is an interesting question, however, I don't think digital paino manufacturers are even 50% of the way there to make an exact copy of a fine acoustic sound, and the way the inovative pace of technology has slowed down, I don't see them makeing a whole lot of progress anytime soon. And as far as durability, my 1927 Knabe is still a first rate instrument at age 83, I have yet to see a digital piano that wasn't in serious need of replacement after 10 years. I would say that digitals are only 10% of acoustic pianos, if that, in terms of longevity. Don't get me wrong, I like digitals for certain applications, but they certainly have their limitations.

I don't think this is a strong argument. Sure, there were many, many more companies building pianos 50-100 years ago. But, how many of them built world-class instruments? The US companies built a lot of crap, especially after the Great Depression.

As for Boesendorfer, sure they had a lot of debt, but that is likely due to poor management and marketing. Steingraeber, for example, is a profitable company, and their pianos are more expensive than Boesendorfer. It is also important to note that before Yamaha's ownership, an Austrian bank owned it, and before that... Kimball! At any rate, your assertion that Boesendorfer "went under" is simply false. They never even declared bankruptcy.

Steinway is already owned by Selmer, it has also been owned by CBS. And if memory serves me correctly, Steinway was near bankruptcy at one point during the mid 20th century (I believe that I read this in Steinway & Sons, by Richard Lieberman). If Steinway ever actually goes under/ liquidated, it has no one to blame but itself.

The fact is that we are in an exciting time for acoustic pianos. There is a lot of innovation going on, and the overall quality of pianos... especially budget pianos, has never been higher.

At any rate, your assertion that Boesendorfer "went under" is simply false. They never even declared bankruptcy.

beethoven986, to be accurate, I never wrote that Bösendorfer went under, I wrote that they were going under. They were actively looking for someone to take them over. Had no one taken them over they would have failed though I doubt if the Austrian government would have allowed that to happen.

Interestingly enough Bösendorfer was working on a hybrid piano and I got to play one of the three prototypes. Since they were taken over by Yamaha that project appears to have been shelved.

No.

But I repeat what apple has already said.

One day, through technology, I am sure that a digital can come darn close to replicating a glorious concert grand.

But is that really all it ? If one day you can put on a virtual head set and a body suit and have all your senses properly stimulated is it a replacement for the real thing whether it be driving a fast car or having sex ? No it isn't.

Acoustics aren't going anywhere.... We will always long for the real thing.

You're just as likely to see a person playing a digital piano at a non-classical event or recording studio as a person playing an acoustic piano. The tend away from AP will only continue until they are used in the same situations teams of horses are used, as something traditional.

Eventually, DPs will be in the majority of homes. Uprights for snobs that dislike DPs. Real grands for artists in classical settings and those with money to spend on McMansions, but local scene the DP will rule.

Eventually, piano techs will be as hard to find as pinball techs, forcing even the snobs to head to DPs. The time will come, even if we are not there yet.

These threads come up regularly and are always interesting. What struck me in reading through this one is that acoustic pianos <i>will</i> some day go the way of typewriters, but it won't be because DPs successfully mimic their tone and touch, it will be because musical tastes change. For several centuries western music has been based on 12 more or less even divisions in the rate at which a vibrating string doubles in pitch. The piano became the cornerstone of western music because it simply and almost exhaustively laid out the building blocks of that music.

But music will change. In a hundred years or five hundred years chromatically based music may be as quaint as Gregorian chants. Moreover, the notion that musical tone should be based on natural vibrations like that of a string or a wooden reed could be just as archaic.

I don't think there's any question that someday tech wizards can build machines that duplicate the sound and feel of today's pianos. The question is will they want to. By then popular opinion may demand something else entirely.

Gary,

The acoustic piano has had a very good ride in the US for more than 100 years. That ride was nurtured for generations by an emerging middle class, a limited selection of options for home entertainment, and a high degree of cultural value attached to the European tradition of classical piano lit. The ride swept along and sustained an axis of small manufaturers of varying competence, piano teachers, tuners, and technicians of varying levels of competence, and commissioned sales personnel who offered the ignorant and/or interested either a degree of specialized prdouct knowledge, a large does of self-serving hooey, or a combination of both.

Take a long hard look at the US today. Is there an emeerging middle class or a dissapearing middle class? Are there a limited selection of home entertainment options or a dizzying array of home entertainment options that offer some sort of connectivity to each other? Is there a high degree of cultural value attached to the European tradition of classical piano lit or a schism dividing the generations who value it and those who find it utterly irrelevant?

Objects of beauty usually endure in one form or another. There is certainly more hope for the acoustic piano than threre ever should have been for the ribbon typewriter with its smudgy print. laborious touch, messy user correction mode, and failure to connect to anything. At its best it was an object of utility, not of beuuty. There is also more hope for the acoustic piano than for the film camera. Even though the acoustic piano connects to nothing, to the user of the instrument it provides much more immediate accurate feedback, and the satisfaction that comes with increased user skill. The pace of life in the US today demands more than a trip to the darkroom or a visit to the one-hour photo developer, both of which can fail to fulfill the creative vision of the user.

Objects of beauty that evoke beauty and create more beauty almost always survive. It is possible, even likely, that sometime in the future there will be a renaisaance of inteerest in an unplugged lifestyle and the joys of solitary music making and creativity unplugged. However, for the time being, look for countries and societies with an emerging middle class such as India, China, and the Asian sub-continent to carry the burden of the acoustic piano forward as their own middle classes continue to emerge and find value in cultural traditions of which they have not been a part..

BTW, the digital piano is not the enemy. It is an object of beauty, contemporary technology, and the worldwide desire for connectivity beyond family, friends.and acquaintances. It has the ability to awaken appreciation of the acoustic piano in those who have no such appreciation. However, it is painted as the devil by those who lack the technology to manufacture it, cannot make a good living selling or servicing it, and teach piano playing skills that do no exploit its musical potential. It is that axis of diehard purist elements fighting for its livelihood that is killing the acoustic piano in the US today. For those elements, the piano is not so much an instrument to create music of lasting value. It is simply a way to make a living.

You should not have to ask if but rather when this change is going to occur. Within the current decade there will be a major shift whereby you will see many acoustic piano stores close.

This does not mean acoustic pianos will disappear forever. One can still buy typewriters at office supply stores. Film cameras are enjoyed mainly by middle aged photographers who began taking pictures in the non-digital era. Vinyl and tape have a more complex history. The revivial of interest in both will peak sometime during this decade. Acoustic pianos will become the wooden ships of the past.

Wherever digital technology has been introduced it has completely revamped that area. One reason is that it reduces the cost to the customer and the manufacturer. Eventually, the reduction becomes so overwhelming that sustaining the old pipeline from supplier to end user becomes impractical. Then extremely few manfacturers remain to supply aficionados and purists with products.

No. There will always be someone building acoustic pianos.

One problem with digital instruments, even before the economy took a big plunge was that they all lost their value very quickly after the purchase. Almost as badly as cars do. At least, that is what I was told by one (or more) dealers. Similar to computers, within a few short years, there is always something bigger and better thereby affecting the longevity of its lasting value.

I bought an 88 note nice digital instrument which I lovingly refer to as "my toy piano." I bought it about 12 years ago at which time it retailed for $5,500. 4 years later, I went to sell it only to find out its real worth was now only was a mere $1,800. I decided to keep it. That doesn't happen to pianos. Not to that degree. Yes, the value of pianos has dropped over the years but then, so has many other items. Pianos for the most part, provided they were taken care of and were a reasonable instrument, retained their value for a very,very, long time.

Another factor to consider. While piano sales are indeed down and digital sales are indeed up, there are millions of pianos worldwide that will be around even if no more pianos were sold starting today. These pianos will be around for at least the next 75 years or longer. Many of these sames pianos like; Steinway, Bosendorfer, Kawai, Yamaha etc., can and will be rebuilt, rather than junked like digital pianos will be when people are finished with them.

People that work on acoustic pianos for a living can hear the difference in a heartbeat if a real piano is being used or, if a digital is being played. I believe, so can a concert artist tell the difference as many if not most of these, refuse to use a digital piano for their concerts. Horowitz for example, would never be found using anything else but, a real piano.

My 20 ¢ worth.

Interesting debate. My opinion:

Acoustic pianos will not die. But they will disappear almost entirely from the average home though, and become a specialist or elitist instrument, sold in low volumes. Simply because there is little or no demand in most homes in the US or Europe within our present cultures. Different in China.

Western acoustic piano dealers will diminish greatly as the market shrinks.

Digitals have a somewhat different market. I think that people who state that digitals can never replicate what an acoustic piano does are short sighted. At the top end they are pretty close now, for most users / listeners.

Acoustic piano has more to fear from video games, short attention spans, and guitar than it has to fear from Digital Pianos.

Actually, the future of acoustics may very well be people who started on a Digital Piano rather than not starting at all, and then developed to a point of need or interest for an acoustic.

The real problem will come as a matter of economics. As digitals inprove in both tone and touch, acoustic piano sales will decrease. This will make it difficult for manufacturers to get the necessary return on investment needed to sustain production of acoustics. This spells eventual doom for entry-level and mid-range acoustics.

Many of the high end manufacturers will likely stay in production since the elite (read rich) purists will create enough demand for top tier instruments.

I wonder what % of those who play the piano(at any level or age) can tell the difference between recordings of a terrific acoustic piano and the best digital or hybrid piano, like the Yamaha AvantGrand.

My guess is less than 10% of those who play the piano and maybe 20-40% of PW members. Twenty years ago those percnetages would probably have been much higher. Twenty years from now, who knows?

This of course depends upon the recording quality. In a place like YouTube for example, where the sound is so compressed it would be pretty much impossible.

Pretty succinct.
I've owned both.
When the lights go out, one can still be played.
Other reasons too.
Acoustic pianos forever!

Let me rephrase your question:
Will connoisseurship die?

No.
But it will become more rare and expensive as the centuries go by.

We live, for example, in an age when almost everyone mistakes a recording of music with music itself; when MP3s, stripped of 90% of their recorded information, playing through cheap earbuds have become the acceptable standard.
With such dumbing-down in progress, cheap fakes will rule the day. Why? Because few can tell the difference, and most of those who can, don't care.

Except for the connoisseurs. They will keep it alive.

MP3's don't crackle.

I have very high end hi-fi available to me - but I increasingly use iTunes and even YouTube for day to day music consumption. Quality is improving and prices to achieve the quality are falling rapidly.

I have two acoustic pianos (Boston is out of storage) - but the digital still gets played - especially late at night when I have time and am in the mood. This "acoustic versus digital" debate passes many of us by. They both have a place and both excellent, useful musical tools.... if you slip the blinkers off.

I deplore the snobbery of it all. At the bottom to lower mid-range end, a good digital beats a cheapish acoustic and above all encourages musicians. Keith Kerman is dead right - embrace digitals as they will steer some/many musicians toward acoustics in due course.

Adrian