2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Spring Into Sound Sale
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
30 members (beeboss, Falsch, DaveX, clothearednincompo, Gene Nelson, Arjen B, id4pw, 7 invisible), 347 guests, and 444 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
Some people say the modeled Rhodes sound in RD-700GX/NX is not very realistic. I haven't had the chance to try it myself. Are there any links where one can hear all the SN e.piano sounds in detail?

Last edited by CyberGene; 11/22/10 08:13 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,237
V
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
V
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,237
CyberGene, the only worthwhile demo I've found is the one on Roland's site for the RD-700GXF - but it's very limited:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1088

Any time I've heard the SN EPs, they have sounded over-processed and not particularly authentic.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
I'm curious about the EPs, and all the other sounds as well. If you compare the GX & NX manuals the setups and tone lists are almost completely different.

FWIW the Sound On Sound NX reviewer really liked the tine, dyno, and suitcase Rhodes EPs - though he said you had to edit them to get a thick bell-dominated sound. He didn't like the overdriven Wurlitzers.

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 792
H
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 792
Originally Posted by dewster
I'm curious about the EPs, and all the other sounds as well. If you compare the GX & NX manuals the setups and tone lists are almost completely different.

FWIW the Sound On Sound NX reviewer really liked the tine, dyno, and suitcase Rhodes EPs - though he said you had to edit them to get a thick bell-dominated sound. He didn't like the overdriven Wurlitzers.


I read the article too. Although the reviewer describes the Rhodes sounds as "sophisticated" and "bright and full", he also indicates that the Rhodes sounds might be a little thin for live setups. He doesn't seem to think much of the Wurlitzers though he does say they are dynamic.

I had the Fantom G8 with ARX2 and was not impressed with the EPs. They sound very clean indeed, but perhaps a bit too much for capturing that fat, gritty sound most EP players want. Personally, I feel the CP1 and SV1 do a far better job on the EPs.

The reviewer clearly feels the 3 main APs and the PHAIII are top of the class, saying they are on par with anything available, including the V-piano and software DPs. He does mention a sterility to the sounds when examined as single notes and a problem with the half dampening effects, but says he does not notice them when playing.

Last edited by Hideki Matsui; 11/21/10 02:46 PM.

Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 483
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 483
I can't comment on the NX but I personally believe the Roland EP's that are obviously trying to be Rhodes are okay at best. I'm not expecting much from the FP-7F at this stage, if the HP307 is anything to go on. I can only hope they've made more of an effort with the NX.

We've got two Rhodes in our studio and although they are worse for wear, there isn't anything quite like them. I have ran one of ours through a Studio Projects VTB-1 (which is very good as a basic tube DI as well as a great little mic preamp) and it offers a dirtier sound overall. I suspect putting one on the output of any monophonic patch that is trying to sound traditional EP would likely enhance the overall simulation.

If there is anything I'd knock about Roland keys, it's the fact they are often very clean which doesn't really suit some legacy EP simulations. I thought the Kawai MP6 was better at EP's than Roland's attempts but, that's possibly heading off topic!!


Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 214
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 214
I haven't been here in awhile, but I figured I'd shed some light on Roland's SN Ep's. I own an RD-700GX/F and have had it since it first came out in 2008 (it was just a GX, but I upgraded with SN AP board and "F'd" it up, lol). Anyway, all I can say is first: 1) sit and listen to a particular Rhodes sound that you want tp emulate (whether an actual Rhodes in front of you or a recording). 2) Be prepared to spend some time tweaking: Bar Angle, Pick-up distance, Bell/Thump, Bell Character, and even the Damper release noise. 3) Choose the amp/speaker combo that gets you closer to the sound that you want (remember sometimes you may not want the speaker simulation on and just have the particular pre-amp that you want, with the Line for the output). This will give you a very clean crisp sound (some desire it, others don't). Plus you MUST adjust the touch sensitivity, to allow for more bark when you dig in on the RD. But it really can bark! BTW the combo of the pick-up distance being further and the Bell/Thump being greater can really fatten up the sound. Heavy on the Thump sound like +6 or more.

Basically to make a long story short you can not rely on the factory settings, they're horrible. You have to use your ear to match the sound that you want. To Roland's credit, you can achieve a very realistic organic playing and sounding Rhodes sound with tweaking.

BTW I tweaked my settings to get that early seventies Herbie Suitcase Rhodes sound, very similar to the sound on the second part of Chameleon from the Headhunters album. What I have learned to like about Roland's approach with the SN EP technology, is that you can actually achieve any signature Rhodes sound, from Joe Sample, Al Jarreau's Dyno sound, straight to Herbie Hancock's sound. The preamps and speaker simulation are incredibly accurate, right down to the difference between the older 4 pin suitcase tremolo pattern and the 5 pin suitcase pattern. Plus the Dyno preamp section is spot on. You really can build what ever kind of Rhodes sound that you want. I like that kind of flexibility. Unfortunately, I was disappointed at first and for some time because the presets suck and I didn't want to have to tweak too much, but at the end of the day I have found peace with my GX/F. cool

Last edited by Rhodie73; 11/21/10 09:40 PM.

Rhodes MkII Stage 73, Yamaha CP4, Yamaha Reface CP + DX
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,286
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,286
Interesting stuff - I regret I never got into tweaking the EPs on my GX because out of the box the Rhodes all sounded small and samey to me...and noisy too. So it clearly pays to spend a bit of time on them.

It is important to make the distinction between the SN EPs on the RD and all the other current and previous Roland EPs (such as the HP-307) - they are totally different. What have they fitted to the FP-7F? "Normal" or SN?

Steve

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 483
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 483
Yeah. Like Essbrace said. Interesting stuff..

As a guitarist, I always wonder whether keyboard players should accept that applying a bit more of the post processing attitude that guitarists apply to their axe's can take you somewhere more personal.

If you can do it from within the machine then great but applying a tube stage in the chain to the monitors then why not...??

I'm off to bed.. Night night...


Regards. Rimmer

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 214
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Interesting stuff - I regret I never got into tweaking the EPs on my GX because out of the box the Rhodes all sounded small and samey to me...and noisy too. So it clearly pays to spend a bit of time on them.

It is important to make the distinction between the SN EPs on the RD and all the other current and previous Roland EPs (such as the HP-307) - they are totally different. What have they fitted to the FP-7F? "Normal" or SN?

Steve


To my knowledge the new FP7-F only has SuperNatural AP's not EP's. But yeah the GX/F and the new NX ultimately have the same source technology. I doubt that the Rhodes presets will truly show off the real beauty behind the SN EP technology. Fortunately, if you sit and tweak to the sound that YOU want, you'll be a happy camper.

BTW I have played the new Yamaha CP series and the Nords. The new Yamaha CP line have excellent Rhodes factory presets and of course the Nord's EP's are IMHO the best out the box Rhodes presets from a hardware keyboard. However, I've been quite satisfied with my tweaked Ep's compared to the Yamaha and Nord, if you can believe that!


Rhodes MkII Stage 73, Yamaha CP4, Yamaha Reface CP + DX
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Originally Posted by Rhodie73
Basically to make a long story short you can not rely on the factory settings, they're horrible.

I've read this a lot.

Originally Posted by Rhodie73
You have to use your ear to match the sound that you want. To Roland's credit, you can achieve a very realistic organic playing and sounding Rhodes sound with tweaking.

I've read this here and there also.

I hope they addressed this horrible EP preset issue with their new NX presets (or whatever the Roland kids are calling them these days).

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
Originally Posted by Rhodie73

BTW I tweaked my settings to get that early seventies Herbie Suitcase Rhodes sound, very similar to the sound on the second part of Chameleon from the Headhunters album.


That's exactly the type of Rhodes I am looking for! I've listened to this piece zillions of times and I can't love that exact sound any more that that. My second favorite Rhodes sound is again Herbie's, the one in Butterfly (from 1974 album "Thrust"), the solo starts from 4:30, such a creamy and dreamy Rhodes, man! I've heard that exact sound recreated in a patch called "Butterfly Hancock" (or something like that) from Native Instruments Elektrik Piano which is no more available as a software.

Rhodie73, if you don't mind, could you share your exact settings to obtain the Chameleon-like Rhodes sound? If I have a chance, I would like to try them on a GX.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
SN on RD700GX sucks big time unfortunately. I have tried to tweak them numeros times and never was pleased enough.
Still can't get it how roland in so called new technology put worse EPs them on old fantom X ??? Do they think people are deaf?

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
By the way I have *almost* succeeded to recreate that sound on my ex RD-700SX:
My Rhodes (that's very non-rhythmical and full of mistakes improvisation I made but it was made at the day I received my piano and at that day I hadn't been having and playing a piano for 4 months)

If I start gigging again, I'll be looking for the perfect Rhodes in a stage piano.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,282
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,282
Great sound CyberGene - pretty sweet playing too! wink

I'd be interested to know some of the chords/progressions you're playing there...

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
Thank you James, this was very free improvisation, not based on any particular chord progression, but I am mostly playing m7 chords with no root at the left hand (foe example Cm7, which I am playing in left hand as Bb-D-Eb-G), there are few 7sus4 chords here and there, also left hand "chords" of the type C-F-Bb, D-G-C, etc. just for the color, also there are few alt chords with no root (for example in the case of Dalt, in left hand I play F#-A#-C-E#)... Ask me for a particular chord if you like and I'll listen and tell you what it is.

Last edited by CyberGene; 11/22/10 05:29 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,286
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,286
CyberGene - sounds good. Much cleaner and bigger sound than any of the GX SN presets (from memory anyway)...would be interesting to see what Rhodie makes of it actually. But are you having to exercise some care when playing around what sounds to me like some fairly obvious velocity layers there? The vintage EP on my HP-307 had a nice timbre but a couple of very stark velocity switches which got in the way of expression in my opinion.

Nice playing as well!

Cheers,

Steve

PS, I like the EP sound on Lalo Schifrin's Dirty Harry soundtrack, among many others. I'm going from memory here...I'm off to see if it's on Spotify to refresh my memory!

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
EssBrace, unfortunately that SX sound indeed has too obvious velocity layer transitions which bothered me. When GX was announced I thought that finally ROland may have fixed that with the SN EP-s but then I've read a lot of complaints and I kept my SX for a while. In fact there is SRX-12 which promised a really good Rhodes sound with better samples and possibly more velocity layers but I had to sold my piano and never had the chance to really try it.

By, the way, I have just found a small demo I have made with Native Instruments Elektrik Piano which a friend of mine owns:
NI Elektrik Piano (Butterfly Herbie preset)


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 761
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by CyberGene
EssBrace, unfortunately that SX sound indeed has too obvious velocity layer transitions which bothered me. When GX was announced I thought that finally ROland may have fixed that with the SN EP-s but then I've read a lot of complaints and I kept my SX for a while. In fact there is SRX-12 which promised a really good Rhodes sound with better samples and possibly more velocity layers but I had to sold my piano and never had the chance to really try it.

By, the way, I have just found a small demo I have made with Native Instruments Elektrik Piano which a friend of mine owns:
NI Elektrik Piano (Butterfly Herbie preset)

Interesting stuff, CyberGene: I'll have a go at this tonight with my CA93 and dynamic voicing (just watch the CA93/CA63 custom settings thread). cool


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,781
If someone is interested, here is one music idea I have created entirely with RD-700SX sounds using drums, electric bass and a Rhodes:

Idea

In this situation the velocity switching is not so obvious, and in a non-solo context as a whole the sound is great and I am kind of sorry I sold the piano... It would be interesting if similar sound could be obtained by the GX/NX. Which current stage piano has the most similar sound? Is it the Nord Stage/Nord Piano or probably the Yamaha CP-series.

I am changing the topic title to reflect the fact we are discussing not only Roland SN EP-s.

Last edited by CyberGene; 11/22/10 08:14 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 214
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Rhodie73

BTW I tweaked my settings to get that early seventies Herbie Suitcase Rhodes sound, very similar to the sound on the second part of Chameleon from the Headhunters album.


That's exactly the type of Rhodes I am looking for! I've listened to this piece zillions of times and I can't love that exact sound any more that that. My second favorite Rhodes sound is again Herbie's, the one in Butterfly (from 1974 album "Thrust"), the solo starts from 4:30, such a creamy and dreamy Rhodes, man! I've heard that exact sound recreated in a patch called "Butterfly Hancock" (or something like that) from Native Instruments Elektrik Piano which is no more available as a software.

Rhodie73, if you don't mind, could you share your exact settings to obtain the Chameleon-like Rhodes sound? If I have a chance, I would like to try them on a GX.


Yeah sure no problem. I actually keep all my EP settings on file as a document. I'll PM you my settings between today and tomorrow. I'm going to see if I can record a little sample for you all to hear.

BTW I hear you about that particular sound. A great thick sound and the GX has the capacity to get that sound. I am a Rhodes fanatic, I own a couple and I've rebuilt mine from the bottom up. Basically I know what a Rhodes sounds like and plays like and I have been able to make my GX sound like one.

Last edited by Rhodie73; 11/22/10 10:00 AM.

Rhodes MkII Stage 73, Yamaha CP4, Yamaha Reface CP + DX
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Help needed - which digital for practice?
by ColonelBogey - 04/15/21 03:58 AM
One piece to send to outer space
by chopinetto - 04/14/21 09:31 PM
G# ?
by risusSardonicus - 04/14/21 08:01 PM
Kawai baby grand with silent option
by Jay Gunderson - 04/14/21 06:24 PM
Slur then no slur
by Sebs - 04/14/21 05:08 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,291
Posts3,082,535
Members101,196
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5