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A good friend of mine's mother has the Chickering box grand in the photos. He said they have documents that say this piano was built in 1833 for Andrew Jackson's wife and there is only one other like it in existence, and the other one resides in a Museum. His mother has apparently received an offer for the piano and he has asked me to try and find out anything I can about it. I thought here would be a good place to start. Google was not helpful. If additional information is needed, I will try and get it. Thanks for the assistance! Picture are here Pictures Link
Jim Wells
Tallahassee, FL

Jim,

Your link asked for a Windows Live login. I logged in, but it told me that the album wasn't shared publicly.

For 1833, the serial number should be about 1,000.

--Cy--

PM sent.

Thanks... I can see the pictures now.

It appears to have had some work done on it; the damper felt looks new. The condition doesn't look bad. It seems completely typical of squares of that time.

Any historic value would have to be assessed by someone in that field. Generally squares today go for less than $1,000.

--Cy--

I suspect it may be from 1870 or so, as it has 88 notes.

Arwcw

Well, no, it has 85 notes, 7 octaves c-c. That would be pretty early.

To me the styling and the fact it has 85 notes makes me think it is also 1870s/80s. The plates on earlier squares were not like this on the ones I have seen. The style it has seems to be far more common in the 1880s.


According to Shaffer pianos, 85 note squares became almost standard in the 1880s.

Although it does have 2 strings per treble note, which can indicate it may be older.

Where is the serial# located on this piano? I'll try and find it and report back. Thanks!

Jim Wells
Tallahassee, FL

They tend to stamp serial numbers in several places on these. On the 1855 erard, just for similar age sake, they stamped the serial number on the pin block, on the innar rim of the piano, near one of the legs, and on one of the supports under the instrument (the large square poles you see under the soundboard, always forget the term)


Check there, those are pretty standard placements on grands. Ive never had experience with a square grand though.

It's not that old. Too many notes. One piece casting. (Though Alpheus Babcock did cast the first unified/one piece casting for an earlier square in 1825) Wrong design. It's not unusual for pianos to get older and more rare/valuable with each retelling of the story.

I suppose I need to get a copy of the documentation and post it. This has not been in the family since it was built. How old do you think it is? Is there a specific picture I could take that would help? Thanks again for all the help. BTW, supposedly, this piano has been consistently maintained and tuned.

Jackson owned a "T. Gilbert piano. Just a fun fact.

for reference here is what an 1838 square grand would typically look like.

Note the pedals.

I had read that. This one was supposedly owned by his wife, Rachel.

I assume since they are not made anymore, that particular style I mean, what are the drawbacks to such a design ... or the advantages? Is it more difficult to tune, to work on the action?

Hi Dave! Happy Thanksgiving...

Hey Jim, we don't don't celebrate Thanksgiving over here, but my brother in law's birthday is the 4th of July.

How's it going?

That is one beautiful piano!

A white elephant in most cases but if I had the room, I would own one with a beautiful cabinet like this along with a beautiful pump organ with the high ornate tops and many stops as well!

Love the workmanship as well as the beautiful wood cabinetry.

While Jonas Chickering had been using metal—including iron—string plates in the early 1920s, I don’t think he used one-piece frame castings until relatively later. And this piano appears to have a single-piece cast gray iron frame (though it is hard to tell for sure from the one photograph showing the frame).

Chickering partnered with John Mackay in 1830 and Mackay had earlier been working with Alpheus Babcock so by 1833 Chickering would certainly have been familiar with Babcock’s iron plate technologies. Besides, both Babcock and Chickering had worked simultaneously in Boston for a time and they must have known of each other’s work. But I don’t think it was until 1837 after Babcock actually came to work for Chickering that the company started to work with one-piece castings. Soon after Babcock came to work with him Chickering tried to patent a full cast iron frame for squares. Although the 1837 application was initially denied on a technicality it was finally granted in 1840 and it was then that Chickering started building squares with full cast (gray) iron frames.

As Chickering continued to build flat strung squares into the 1840s I would guess—and it is only a guess—that this piano was probably built in the early 1840s. It would take further examination and some actual research work to tell for sure.

ddf

Squares were deemed as technical-wise a mess.

From a pianist standpoint, they were odd to play usually (most squares have the lower and higher keys rounded off to create a vertically curved keydesk look.

Also the actions were sloppy. If you were a beginner sure it would be a nice piece. But as an intermediate, you soon realized they lacked the expression and overall, good touch.



Personally, I would absolutely love to have a square grand, especially a chickering, but not before I have a suitable upright or grand for real playing.


They are also obsolete nowadays. No parts are really available for them like a standard grand or upright. Things like soundboards, pins, action parts, etc.