Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. My point was that E is a major (wrong word), important part of the tune. So do we change the tune to start on an Eb? Or stick with the E but use minor harmonies?

TLT, listen to the last movement of my "Variations". It is in Cm and the first melody note (of this movement) is Eb.

Variations

You can't deviate from the melody but who says that it has to be Cm (with an Eb)? The minor third can occur anywhere else in the chord.

For example, in Am, the E is ok. The minor comes from C. You have to think out of the box with this stuff. So the E is the 5th of the chord in this case. It could also be the 7th of the chord or the root. Thus you forget its original placement.

But the one thing you don't do is suddenly turn the E into an Eb. That's not reharmonization now since you've changed the underlying tune. Sometimes you can do that and make the song still recognizable but it's the easy way out to problem solving.

So theoretically (and simplistically) speaking, you can try out Am7, Dm7 and Em7 on those three melody notes of C,D, and E and the E will will not be out of place. I think it is simplistic to just use these chords though as there is no tension and release. Each of these chords are equally weighted.

In my 1st post, I used Eb on the final chord when the melody was C. So I was in major on the E melody note and then switched to minor when I got to C. That's another way of introducing the Eb. It's a "fake Cadence".

But it's not as dark as staying in minor the whole time though.

Jazzwee- Please go to my url where my question is posed:

http://www.box.net/shared/e012r2jc1j

I saw that grandpa GPA and answered in the other thread (incorrectly at that).

But is there more context to this progression? F6 is itself a dominant so one would imagine it came from someplace else and the the F6 is an attempt to modulate to G (using a jump from one dominant to another dominant).

Usually I see tunes starting with a dominant like F6(9) in Blues. It just seems like this progression is in the middle of the tune.

Jazzwe

I didn't think I could copy direct from the book, or I would have.Yes, it dows look like a snippet of a tune in the key of F. I just don't understand what's written below the staff, that seems to allude to the key of C.

Do I dare copy the whole page without permission? If I could, the whole thing might be clearer to you.

http://www.box.net/shared/e012r2jc1j

I'm glad to see this thread come back to page 1 again. I've printed out a bunch of stuff to work on. Still don't have any way to post recordings, but I'm having fun playing around with this as a break from my lesson book pieces.

I'm going to try what I've learned with Jingle Bells too.

Maybe you can start a thread with Jingle Bells or other Christmas variations also.

GPA, I understand your copyright concerns. If you wish, you can show it to me privately and then we can discuss it publicly. If something is pertinent for all, we can kind of recreate the required information.

Reharmonization often requires context. But for a simple starter I think this thread has plenty of information and more to come.

Mom3Gram, I haven't given up on this thread yet. But I was a bit concerned that I load up with TOO MUCH information.

And now that the holidays are upon us shortly, hopefully Reharmonized holiday tunes will get posted too.

Oh yeah! Way too much information for me already, but I've bookmarked and I will grow into it.

Well we can always revert to non-serious reharms first

Jazzwee, somewhere at the beginning of this thread you asked if my Alfred book had covered 7th chords yet. Well, my Book 2 just came today, and it introduces 7th chords around page 90.....and I'm not done with Book 1 yet. Sigh!

I'm going to peek ahead and play with them a bit.

It's not that hard Mom3Gram Once you know your regular chords, 7th chords are a piece of cake. It does make you rethink fingering though.

Someone just brought this thread up to my attention again. Some of the stuff here is really great for creating jazzy sounding Christmas songs.

Jazzwee, How are you doing? Long time no see... actually I've been so busy that I have not had time to come into piano world too often.

I am glad you resurrected this thread. Didn't even know it existed before. It sure is great to create some jazzy sounding Christmas songs.

I've been working on Joy to the World Reharmonization.

You know how in Joy to the World, we can just play the following chords for the first line:

C G7 C G7 C

And instead of playing the above progression, I can do something like this for the introduction to lead into the song (using the same 1st line melody tones):

F Bdim7 Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7 C G7 ...then start the song with C then G7 C G7 .....


I know we can do the above because of the Circle movement of 2 5 1, but what is the explanation of being able to start with the F Chord instead of the C chord in songs that are in Key of C? Other than the fact that a C melody tone works for the F Chord and we can move via the circle, are there other more specific explanations to this as to why it works?

Rosa

Hey Rosa! Did you come up with this? I guess you have some jazzer blood in you then!

You've hit on some very common reharmonizations here surprisingly.

I haven't tried on the piano but for example Bdim7 = Bb7b9. So if you think of the F as a ii chord (i.e. a Min7) then it leads into the Bb7b9. (ii-V)

Now here's the other interesting thing. Bb7b9 is something called a diminished cycle substitution to G7b9 (meaning they are interchangeable). And G7 is frequently altered to G7b9.

Also instead of Em7 Am7 Dm7, that could actually have suggested Em7 A7 Dm7 G7 C which is 3 6 2 5 1 which is just extending the harmony of G7 using the circle of fifths.

The Am7 plays with the harmony a little bit instead of the A7. Vaguer but done a lot in modern jazz.

So there are pieces of this that take from reharmonizations that are typical. However your combinations here sound like fun.

I know what I'm saying here is complex but if you can retain the melody note, the different reharmonizations work and it's fun to just listen and see what you create. No one writes rules for this.

You should post what this reharm sounds like.

Back in the beginning here (I can't believe it's last year), you will see me refer to something called 1 5 7 alternating with 1# 5 7 that I came up with. Try it out! It's an easy way to reharmonize and the voicing is good too.

BTW - Rosa, I don't know if you know this, but you could play the Em7 Am7 Dm7 as Esus4, Asus4, Dsus4.

This could be played with something called quartal harmony (a stack of fourths). This is the basis of pentatonic playing in Jazz.

It's the basic harmony in the tune Maiden Voyage by Herbie Hancock.

Jazzwee, your explanation is really kool:




I never thought of it that way.

Now I also understand:



So my Chord progression is actually doing this:


Fm7 Bb7b9

ii7 V7

And then:

Em7 A7 Dm7 G7 C
3 6 2 5 1


So if I were to reharmonize this to the first line, the first melody tone C is actually harmonized with Fm7 and Bb7b9, is that right?

Because in my original version, I had the FM7 harmonizaing the C tone and then the the Bdim harmonizing the 2nd melody tone B.

When I have more time, I want to get back into your jazz threads and do more jazz improvisation and reharmonization. I see you have started an intermediate/advanced thread now, so I am a bit behind.

Thanks for helping me out.
Rosa

Rosa, yes that's why I'm saying...but all in theory as I didn't try it out on the piano.

It's fun to come up with theoretical explanations of how it works but in reality it's trial and error and the choices suggest new harmonies. Sometimes it's too far out and sometimes it sounds really cool.

It does seem to note that our ear looks for some connection between the chords no matter how lightly suggested. So F to Bb7b9 suggests a ii-V. But it could be suggesting a F7 Bb7, which is a common movement too (the Blues....).

Just for fun, here's a short snippet of a Joy to World Reharm. Rosa, you should post yours too so we can see what it sounds like. This is very short and I didn't go far out or anything. It's still in the key of C. I just did this on the fly so I didn't plan it out or practice it.

http://www.box.net/shared/y39ghqvdie