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#1560512 - 11/19/10 01:39 AM double-sharps  
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T'sMom Offline
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I think I got myself mixed up. A double sharp raises a note one whole step. But what if the piece is in a key where the note already sharped. For example F double sharp in the key of C# minor-- is the F then played as a G or as a G sharp?

Thank you!

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#1560515 - 11/19/10 01:50 AM Re: double-sharps [Re: T'sMom]  
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Any accidental marked on a note is always taken literally as it stands, and not added on to what the key signature already said. So F double sharp is always played on the G key regardless of anything else.


(I'm a piano teacher.)
#1560738 - 11/19/10 01:24 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: david_a]  
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T'sMom Offline
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Thank you!

#1561117 - 11/20/10 08:08 AM Re: double-sharps [Re: david_a]  
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Which is one thing that frustrates me to no end when reading music. If they have to double sharp an F to be played on the G, why didnt they write it as a G? crazy


Started Playing May 2010 at 51 yrs old, Some Self Learning, Lessons X 3yrs
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#1561120 - 11/20/10 08:14 AM Re: double-sharps [Re: Cobra1365]  
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Studio Joe Offline
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Originally Posted by Cobra1365
Which is one thing that frustrates me to no end when reading music. If they have to double sharp an F to be played on the G, why didnt they write it as a G? crazy


Most likely because G is sharp in the key signature.


Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax
#1561121 - 11/20/10 08:14 AM Re: double-sharps [Re: Cobra1365]  
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Canonie Offline
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Originally Posted by Cobra1365
Which is one thing that frustrates me to no end when reading music. If they have to double sharp an F to be played on the G, why didnt they write it as a G? crazy

The G was taken (usually).

Edit: StudioJoe explains it much better smile

Last edited by Canonie; 11/20/10 08:16 AM.

[Linked Image]
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
#1561129 - 11/20/10 08:38 AM Re: double-sharps [Re: T'sMom]  
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Ha-ha, Canonie, both our posts are time marked at 6:14 AM. I just clicked the reply button a few millisecs. before you.

Thanks for the plug in yur edit.


Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax
#1561292 - 11/20/10 03:49 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: Cobra1365]  
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T'sMom Offline
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You know, I understand the theory, that certain notes don't exist in certain keys.

However, while reading along and playing, it is much easier for me to hit G-natural (g note with a natural) than F ##. I write in a big fat "G" by the note. Same for B# = C.

So can anyone guess what I'm working on, key of C# minor with a lot of f double sharps and b#'s in it? One of those famous pieces that is easy to play adequately and hard to play really beautifully...

#1561399 - 11/20/10 07:56 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: T'sMom]  
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Andy Platt Offline
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Originally Posted by T'sMom
So can anyone guess what I'm working on, key of C# minor with a lot of f double sharps and b#'s in it? One of those famous pieces that is easy to play adequately and hard to play really beautifully...


The only thing I could think of is Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# minor ... but if it's that you must be a much better player than me because "easy to play ..."?!


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#1561402 - 11/20/10 08:03 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: T'sMom]  
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Originally Posted by T'sMom
You know, I understand the theory, that certain notes don't exist in certain keys.

However, while reading along and playing, it is much easier for me to hit G-natural (g note with a natural) than F ##. I write in a big fat "G" by the note. Same for B# = C.

So can anyone guess what I'm working on, key of C# minor with a lot of f double sharps and b#'s in it? One of those famous pieces that is easy to play adequately and hard to play really beautifully...

Chopin's posthumous nocturne?

#1561422 - 11/20/10 08:57 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: Cobra1365]  
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Originally Posted by Cobra1365
Which is one thing that frustrates me to no end when reading music. If they have to double sharp an F to be played on the G, why didnt they write it as a G? crazy
I don't know you. But let's imagine that your name is George. (Go with me here for a second.) smile

If I'm writing a paper and I spell your name Jorj, and then I pay you to edit the paper, will you correct the spelling of your name, or not? Why? smile


(I'm a piano teacher.)
#1561592 - 11/21/10 05:51 AM Re: double-sharps [Re: david_a]  
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Originally Posted by david_a
I don't know you. But let's imagine that your name is George. (Go with me here for a second.) smile

If I'm writing a paper and I spell your name Jorj, and then I pay you to edit the paper, will you correct the spelling of your name, or not? Why? smile


Let's just imagine that what you wrote makes any sense.

#1561625 - 11/21/10 08:20 AM Re: double-sharps [Re: david_a]  
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Canonie Offline
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Originally Posted by david_a
Originally Posted by Cobra1365
Which is one thing that frustrates me to no end when reading music. If they have to double sharp an F to be played on the G, why didnt they write it as a G? crazy
I don't know you. But let's imagine that your name is George. (Go with me here for a second.) smile

If I'm writing a paper and I spell your name Jorj, and then I pay you to edit the paper, will you correct the spelling of your name, or not? Why? smile

I think this is an excellent response.

my [Linked Image] stick with it, think of it as F double sharp, B sharp or whatever, and eventually it becomes easier because it begins to look and sound right.
Oh and good luck with Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, First Movement

I'm feeling confident[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
#1561659 - 11/21/10 10:41 AM Re: double-sharps [Re: T'sMom]  
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It must be me, then, who is double-flat.

#1561722 - 11/21/10 01:30 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: Canonie]  
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Originally Posted by Canonie

Oh and good luck with Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, First Movement

I'm feeling confident[Linked Image]



You guessed it! I recently heard a little kid play it at a recital, technically well but not really musically. I thought that if she could play it I could probably learn it. Always thought it was out of my league but once I looked at it I realized I could do it. Now I'm obsessed (just a few days into it at this point... have a lesson tomorrow).

#1561741 - 11/21/10 02:04 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: T'sMom]  
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Todd Vance Offline
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some "simplified" music has the F## made into G, but using F## instead of G conveys additional info to the musician---the notes are be part of a scale or chord of a given key. That comes under, as a conductor way back in HS told the kids, "reading music, not just notes" (though it took a while to understand what he meant by that).




Todd
#1561893 - 11/21/10 07:02 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: T'sMom]  
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Canonie Offline
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Haha, I knew it! That was one of the first pieces I was addicted to when I took up piano as an adult. I'd "played" the first page as a teen, so re-found the music, bought the cheap DP and off I went. Fortunately my teacher had me learning lots of grade one and two pieces - to learn how piano is Actually played. But he also patiently took me through the moonlight first for my pleasure.


[Linked Image]
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
#1561991 - 11/21/10 10:28 PM Re: double-sharps [Re: Canonie]  
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It's an addicting piece. By the second line it's really beautiful and dramatic. I did a rough sight read through it pretty easily but of course balancing the voices is a significant challenge (at least for me). I can't wait to hear what my teacher has to say tomorrow, I'm sure he'll chop me down a little -- then rebuild ...


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