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#1554951 - 11/10/10 03:16 PM Kawai MP10 compared to FP-7F (actions and AP sounds)  
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I have ordered a FP-7F but have second thoughts now when I read about the wonderful RM3 action. I really like the Roland SN sound the best and the Kawai MP10 mp3 demos on their site didn't change that.

A few questions on the matter:

Is the piano sound in the MP10 expected to be the same as the sound in CA63/93 or is it a whole new deal?

Do you consider Kawai's flagship models to be on pair with the Roland SN?

Is there any chance that the FP-7F will have a numbed down version of the SN sounds found in HP307?

--
EDIT: Changed the title of the thread since it became about the actions and the AP sounds.


Last edited by tinybox; 11/12/10 06:00 AM.
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#1554974 - 11/10/10 03:46 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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These are good questions, but I'm afraid that none can answer at the moment!
I'm in the same situation: FP7F or Kawai MP10 (but also MP6)?
Tough choice!


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
#1554979 - 11/10/10 03:54 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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You can try the RM3 action by testing a CA93. However the CA93 soundboard will influence the piano sounds, and here is what KawaiJames had to say about the MP10 sounds.

Sounds like you have buyer's remorse? smile I'd stick to your order, then either fall in love with it or dump it for something else - but what.

#1554985 - 11/10/10 04:10 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Originally Posted by tinybox
Is there any chance that the FP-7F will have a numbed down version of the SN sounds found in HP307?

I don't think so. I played both and I think FP-7F has the same sound module and 99% of the patches are the same as well - check the owner's manual.

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#1555006 - 11/10/10 04:34 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Hi Kishonti,

do I understand it right that you played an FP-7F ? I think you would be the first on this forum. The questions has been asked several times on this site if ALL SN labeled instruments (NX, GXF, 305, 307 , FP-7F etc) have the same basic SN set installed. E.g. in the RD-NX specs it states that there are three SN AP's in thirty variations, but for other instruments it just says "SN piano". That's were all the confusion starts. If anyone can confirm that all implementations are exactly the same that would be very (!) welcome information.

#1555019 - 11/10/10 04:58 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Both RD700NX and FP-7F are available here in Budapest in a showroom since early October. (I mentioned that in an earlier post.) I don't know much about the RD series - although I tried them - because I'm more interested in and spent more time with the HP and FP line.
So basically the FP-7F is a portable version of the HP307 with a new keyboard - which I think is less noisy - but that might be just an illusion (or comes from the difference of the materials around the keybed). I think it is the best performance/price piano at Roland. (I also ordered one.)

#1555428 - 11/11/10 08:25 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Thanks for the replies smile

I think I've read somewhere that the FP-7F action feels a bit lighter and less "thumpy" than the RD700NX. Can you shed some light on this kishonti? The action is the only thing that would make me choose MP10 over the FP7.


#1555477 - 11/11/10 10:09 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: kishonti]  
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Originally Posted by kishonti
Both RD700NX and FP-7F are available here in Budapest in a showroom since early October. (I mentioned that in an earlier post.) I don't know much about the RD series - although I tried them - because I'm more interested in and spent more time with the HP and FP line.
So basically the FP-7F is a portable version of the HP307 with a new keyboard - which I think is less noisy - but that might be just an illusion (or comes from the difference of the materials around the keybed). I think it is the best performance/price piano at Roland. (I also ordered one.)


I spoke to the 'Roland' guy who's been planted in one of my local shops, whilst leaning on an HP307 with a cup of tea ( smile ) and he said that the keyboard for the FP7-F is the same one lifted from the HP307. Same mech everything. I have taken his word as gospel. I do gather however that there are some different coloured surfaces. Some appear a little more tobacco coloured (which I like..) than others.

Any chance you can ask your shop the same question as i've become suspicious of whether this label of PHA III tells the whole story. Maybe in the same way I am suspicious of this whole SuperNATURAL engine thing offering the same experience through all the SN labelled products.

Regards. Rimmer

#1555489 - 11/11/10 10:32 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Ah, you can't beat sitting down at the keys with a pot of tea and a plate of bourbons. Takes me back to my childhood...my mother would bring me slices of home-made chocolate cake and cups of tea while I sat practising.
Lol, I probably spent more time eating and drinking while sat at that upright piano than actually playing the bloody thing!

Seriously though, great to hear that the FP-7F keyboard is indeed the same as the HP-307. That's a very nice action!

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1555494 - 11/11/10 10:51 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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As my piano teacher works for Roland and my lessons are held in the same showroom, today I asked her to test FP-7F and compare it to PHA2 Ivory and PHA3 Ivory.
Her first opinion was: "jumpier than PHA2, it is like a PHA3" and after going back and forth between HP307 and FP7F several times: "these are essentially the same". Then I asked why the keys sound different (HP307 is louder) and she said what I hear is the wooden box of HP307 which strengthens the key sound.


#1555495 - 11/11/10 10:56 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Regarding the PHAIII Feel vs Feel-S I'm thinking there's a chance that the proprietary material that Roland uses for the keys in the Feel-S version might make the action feel a bit different even though it's the same underlying mechanics. I agree that the HP307's action is very nice so if the FP7F is same or very close to that I'm going sing and dance in addition to playing this fine instrument smile

EDIT: Didn't see kishontis last post when I wrote this. I'm happy to hear that they are essentially the same, there will be joy! :-D

Last edited by tinybox; 11/11/10 11:15 AM.
#1555552 - 11/11/10 12:17 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: kishonti]  
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Originally Posted by kishonti
and after going back and forth between HP307 and FP7F several times: "these are essentially the same". Then I asked why the keys sound different (HP307 is louder) and she said what I hear is the wooden box of HP307 which strengthens the key sound.


Hi,

I'm also considering a FP-7F, because the HP307's keyboard action is the best I've ever encountered.

I have some concerns about the FP-7F's amplifier / speakers, though. The FP-4 is quite noisy, even when the volume is turned down (constant static background noise), and as far as I could tell in the shop, the old FP-7 also has that problem. So for me the big question is: Has Roland fixed this in the FP-7F?

I know I could just wait until it's released, but with you having access to that kind of information already, it's tempting to ask. smile

[ETA: I have no problem with the allegedly noisy keyboard of the HP307 - when I hit a note hard, it's ok to get some hard reaction. What put me off is the constant background noise on the FP-4, which was annoying when playing softly at low volume.]

JH.

Last edited by jhaible; 11/11/10 12:20 PM.
#1555555 - 11/11/10 12:23 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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My old FP7 had no issues with internal speakers. Rather they sound better then expected!


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
#1555563 - 11/11/10 12:33 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: Qbert]  
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Originally Posted by Qbert
My old FP7 had no issues with internal speakers. Rather they sound better then expected!


That's good to know!
Was it really inaudible then, when powered-on?

JH.

#1555569 - 11/11/10 12:37 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Really I don't know.


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
#1555575 - 11/11/10 12:46 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: kishonti]  
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Originally Posted by kishonti
As my piano teacher works for Roland and my lessons are held in the same showroom, today I asked her to test FP-7F and compare it to PHA2 Ivory and PHA3 Ivory.
Her first opinion was: "jumpier than PHA2, it is like a PHA3" and after going back and forth between HP307 and FP7F several times: "these are essentially the same". Then I asked why the keys sound different (HP307 is louder) and she said what I hear is the wooden box of HP307 which strengthens the key sound.



Good one. I personally appreciate that! I forgot to ask my chap what the Feel-S was. I don't know if we've got to the bottom of that yet!! Maybe I'll stop down tomorrow (with a packet of bourbon's wink ) and ask him!!

#1555755 - 11/11/10 05:40 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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For non-British readers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourbon_biscuit

[Linked Image]

Delicious!

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1555806 - 11/11/10 07:23 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Wouldn't RD700NX vs MP10 be a better comparison?
and the same for FP7F vs MP6?

#1555819 - 11/11/10 07:46 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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Julian,

Yes, I agree.

Of course, there are inevitably going to be overlaps in the various product ranges, however I would suggest the following comparisons between Roland, Kawai, and Yamaha:

- RX-700NX vs MP10 vs CP5
- RD-300NX (?) vs MP6 vs CP50
- FP-7F vs next ES6 vs P-155

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1555822 - 11/11/10 07:55 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Julian,

Yes, I agree.

Of course, there are inevitably going to be overlaps in the various product ranges, however I would suggest the following comparisons between Roland, Kawai, and Yamaha:

- RX-700NX vs MP10 vs CP5
- RD-300NX (?) vs MP6 vs CP50
- FP-7F vs next ES6 vs P-155

Cheers,
James
x


Next ES6? =) Tomorrow I will receive my new, probably next-old, ES6 =)


"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
-- Albert Einstein
#1555831 - 11/11/10 08:10 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: virtu]  
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virtu, please don't read too much into my 'next ES6' remark - I was just trying to make the point that a future ES model (and indeed a future P-155 model) would be expected to compete on features, specifications, and price with Roland's latest FP-7F.

Similarly, I could write that the following about console DPs:

HP305 vs. CA63 vs. next CLP-340.

Anyway, congratulations on the purchase of your ES6 - it's an excellent portable DP that will continue to be competitive instrument for some time.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1555842 - 11/11/10 08:39 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
virtu, please don't read too much into my 'next ES6' remark - I was just trying to make the point that a future ES model (and indeed a future P-155 model) would be expected to compete on features, specifications, and price with Roland's latest FP-7F.


Ok James =P
So a nice chart is:
FP-7 x ES6 x P155

After 8 months looking for a nice DP that will fit my needs, the P155, RD300GX and FP-4 was in my range, but in October I read about Kawai and in less than 3 weeks I made my mind and got it a brand new ES6 =)

So, back to main topic, IMHO I have to agree with you that FP-7F can´t be compared to MP10. They are distinct DP (Roland) SP (Kawai) with difference purposes. RD700GX is the best match for MP10.

Thanks again.


"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
-- Albert Einstein
#1555858 - 11/11/10 09:36 PM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: virtu]  
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Well I plan on comparing the MP10 to my CP1 because they seem to be pretty similar in approach with a few additional features on the MP10. Of course by the time I have my MP10, I hope I have found a new home for the CP1.


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#1556037 - 11/12/10 04:22 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: JulianMaurits]  
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Originally Posted by JulianMaurits
Wouldn't RD700NX vs MP10 be a better comparison?
and the same for FP7F vs MP6?


I don't think the AP on the MP6 is as good as the MP10.
The AP on the FP7F is most likely as good as the RD700NX.

The action on the MP6 is not RM3, so I think it possible it's not as good as the PHAIII.
The action on the FP7F, as came forward in this thread, seem to be very similar to the HP307/RD700NX.

My only two priorities are the action and the AP sound. I look at the toy features and the speaker on the FP7F as a bonus smile

Also price is not considered because they're all inside my range. But why pay extra for the RD700NX when I get all my bases covered with the FP7F?


#1556042 - 11/12/10 04:42 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: virtu]  
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Originally Posted by virtu

So, back to main topic, IMHO I have to agree with you that FP-7F can´t be compared to MP10. They are distinct DP (Roland) SP (Kawai) with difference purposes. RD700GX is the best match for MP10.


I think it depends. These instruments have so many voices and features that probably nobody uses all of them.
For those, that dont use the extended MIDI controller capabilities of the MP10 the comparison makes sense.

And I really think that only a minority of MP10 users or buyers really uses all MIDI functionality thats built in.
Peter

Last edited by hpeterh; 11/12/10 04:56 AM.

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#1556045 - 11/12/10 04:53 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Julian,

Yes, I agree.

Of course, there are inevitably going to be overlaps in the various product ranges, however I would suggest the following comparisons between Roland, Kawai, and Yamaha:

- RX-700NX vs MP10 vs CP5
- RD-300NX (?) vs MP6 vs CP50
- FP-7F vs next ES6 vs P-155

Cheers,
James
x


Hi James,
I really take in high consideration your posts. But now... it's sound quite odd to me.

I think that FP7F SN is better (or comparable at least) than MP6 PHI and PHAIII FP7F action is rather better than MP6 RH. Furthermore, FP7F price will be higher than MP6 price.

That said, I can't understand why you don't compare FP7F directly with MP6. Not enough: you put FP7F a step lower than MP6.

Uhmmm... confused

Last edited by Qbert; 11/12/10 04:57 AM.

GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
#1556047 - 11/12/10 05:05 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

- FP-7F vs next ES6 vs P-155

Cheers,
James
x


Funny. I was considering what the next ES6 would be up to! If they UPHI that though, the situation will confuse me even further.. From my experience, the MP6 versus the P155 question is obvious. The MP6 is better than the 155 in virtually every way although lets face it, the P155 feels more in competition with the current ES6. I didn't think much of the P155. It's hardly ground breaking..

Regards. Rimmer

#1556052 - 11/12/10 05:40 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: Qbert]  
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Qbert,

I wasn't intending to 'rank' the instruments in any order of quality, but rather to illustrate how the different product ranges compare across the three major brands.

Originally Posted by Qbert
I can't understand why you don't compare FP7F directly with MP6.


Largely because the FP-7F features built-in speakers and is arguably less of a 'traditional' stage piano. Again, I'm not attempting to compare the specifications or even assess the quality of the two instruments, but rather analyse the segment that they will likely occupy within the market.

I hope this explains my previous post.

By the way, may I ask why you believe the FP-7F's PHAIII action to be better than the MP6's RH action? If it's just the presence of a third sensor, does this automatically mean that Casio's PX-130 action is also better than the MP6 action?

Furthermore, how are we defining 'better'?
Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#1556053 - 11/12/10 05:41 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: tinybox]  
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I think James classified them by portability, embedded speaker and ruggedness - not necessarily by price.

#1556063 - 11/12/10 06:45 AM Re: Kawai MP10 piano sound (compared to FP-7F SN) [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Qbert,
I wasn't intending to 'rank' the instruments in any order of quality, but rather to illustrate how the different product ranges compare across the three major brands.


Ok, I misunderstood your point. Thanks for the explanation.

Originally Posted by Kawai James

By the way, may I ask why you believe the FP-7F's PHAIII action to be better than the MP6's RH action? If it's just the presence of a third sensor, does this automatically mean that Casio's PX-130 action is also better than the MP6 action?


Well, I just suppose that PHAIII action is fairly better comparable with RM3 than RH. Am I wrong?

Last edited by Qbert; 11/15/10 06:04 AM.

GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
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