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Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1540232 10/21/10 11:54 AM
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I am relatively new to concert pianists and their playing but I have just been listening and watching Yulianna Avdeeva as she competed in this competition. I have never heard so much great sound from a piano.

But....as I say, I'm new and have much to learn. I will really enjoy watching all of her performances in the competition on YouTube.

Although nothing to do with her playing, she showed good taste with her hair and clothing. Very neat.

Thus far have viewed Concerto no1 and Scherzo no 4. There are some key places in this last when she really makes the piano sing!

Bech


Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.
Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1540370 10/21/10 03:00 PM
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i don't know how or what they're doing with the multiple spotlights(?) and high overhead view during the winners' recital, but I think it's quite amazing and appealing! I've never seen anything like this in a serious classical piano concert.

And later, a great view of the winner playing in the underside of the Yamaha CFX lid. I think the camera work for the entire competition, even the less fancy stuff not used in the winners' recital, is amazing.

I think the winners' recital may be in a different hall than the actual competition.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 10/21/10 04:18 PM.
Re: International Chopin Competition
ConcertEtudes #1540375 10/21/10 03:15 PM
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I disagree about Kultyshev being mechanical. I think some didn't like him because he didn't use too much variety of color or texturing, but his playing was very high quality, nicely interpreted, the way Chopin should sound, but perhaps the way many others play it. He needs to find his own voice more.

I didn't listen to much Avdeeva, but her polonaise-fantasie sounds perfect to me.

It seemed unfair that Bozhanov got so bashed about his concerto. They almost made him out to be some kind of clown. Actually, his mistakes were not as serious as said, and his music was full of expression and singing tone. He had a bit of a loud left hand at first, but it didn't seem overwhelming to me.

Lots of contestants seemed to get bashed along the way, or sometimes completely ignored. Some commentators seemed to be trying to find just a few heroes.

Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1540395 10/21/10 03:50 PM
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Geniusas got barely lukewarm applause after his Barcarolle and Waltz in F in the winners' recital. True, I think he made several super glaring clunkers in the Waltz(two of the near the opening high F's in a row?), but shouldn't the audience consider his entire performance over the competition??

Last edited by pianoloverus; 10/21/10 03:53 PM.
Re: International Chopin Competition
Scherze #1540475 10/21/10 05:59 PM
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agree about Bozhanov, and i quite liked his playing actually. everyone sounded like he did really really badly in concerto, but i don't think it's the case at all. he just played as he did before, but this time, some critics hated it just because he made more sensational solo performance on previous days. the same thing happened to him on the Cliburn and somewhat at QEC as well, as some people complained his performance when in fact he just did what he liked to do on piano.

he has his own ideas about playing any pieces, even with concertos, which like it or not is just the way he does. i like his concerto performances, despite some mistakes he made. he's the only one i would follow through years, because he's just so original if there's nothing else.

it's pity that in most international competitions, a real and original artist is not always appreciated or rewarded as it should be. i much prefer he's the winner than anyone else in the competition. but the reality is always a different story.

Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1540625 10/21/10 10:32 PM
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I got the chance to watch the livestream of Avdeeva's concerto performance at the winners' concert today. I must say, it really was a beautiful performance, worthy of a winner. Original, and some parts were not the way some pianists might have conceived of them, but I found the performance profoundly moving and well-constructed. I couldn't budge from my seat until she was done. wink Great conductor and orchestra, too.

Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1540726 10/22/10 02:22 AM
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Woohoo my favorite won! I loved Avdeeva already in the first round, and also her Sonata's were amazing. I wasn't able to see the concerto's, except one from Trifonov, which I liked alot! Ow well, Trifonov, Wunder and Avdeeva in the top 3, I am very happy.


Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)
Re: International Chopin Competition
sarah_elizabeth #1540986 10/22/10 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sarah_elizabeth
I got the chance to watch the livestream of Avdeeva's concerto performance at the winners' concert today.


I completely missed the winners' concert... cry



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Re: International Chopin Competition
ChopinAddict #1542035 10/23/10 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopinAddict
Originally Posted by sarah_elizabeth
I got the chance to watch the livestream of Avdeeva's concerto performance at the winners' concert today.


I completely missed the winners' concert... cry

It's in the archive.


Greg
Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1542036 10/23/10 07:11 PM
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I've had the chance to listen to Avdeeva's earlier rounds and now it's easier to see why she won. Her concerto performance still doesn't compare to Wunder's but she really did play well in the earlier rounds. Brava!


Greg
Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1542473 10/24/10 02:20 PM
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I really would prefer for Kultyshev to win. Bozhanov would have been my second choice. Avdeeva's sound is as far as you can possibly get from Chopin's singing tone. I did not think she deserved to win. The second movement of her sonata was rather dismaying, as if her technical ability was simply not enough. Very surprised.

Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1542483 10/24/10 02:36 PM
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And this is all your humble opinion ofcourse


Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)
Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1543063 10/25/10 10:59 AM
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Scores of all participants for each round are released!

http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/edition/xvi/verdicts2/1989_etap_i

Sort first by # of yes votes, then by average score, and you get the ranks after each round. The point system is terrible, because they weight each round equally, even though the 3rd and final rounds contain twice as much music(at least in performance time) as the 1st and 2nd round. Each round should be weighted progressively more, with concerto round weighting probably 4 times as much as the first round.

Also interesting to see the jury follow the scores strictly in the first three rounds. This is to show fairness in judging? (since they can only see the scores, not the names) But the flaw of this system is that it allows for no discussion and comparison between performances after they hear all the performances. I guess this avoids the problem of one persuasive judge convincing the rest of the jury of his/her own beliefs....

Disappointed to see Denis Zhdanov fall from 3rd place after Round 1 to 31st place after Round 2 (biggest drop). Also disappointed to see Marianna Prjevalskaya improve from 38th to 21st place (biggest improvement), only to just miss out the 3rd round by one spot...

Joanna Różewska was probably the most unforunate to have the highest score of all who didn't make it to second round...




Last edited by ConcertEtudes; 10/25/10 11:02 AM.
Re: International Chopin Competition
ConcertEtudes #1543092 10/25/10 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ConcertEtudes
The point system is terrible, because they weight each round equally


No, they do not. Where did you get that information from?



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Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1543099 10/25/10 11:55 AM
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In the final round the scoring seems reversed? The winner has the lowest score or at least that's what it looks like to me.

Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1543112 10/25/10 12:06 PM
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To rephrase what I said on Facebook - from what I see, it's not the scoring of the final itself, but the whole competition.

It fits well with the new rules used for choosing the winners. There were sheets with names in which each jury member had to put a number from "1" to "10" specifying the place for each candidate.

What you see is the mean from all sheets from all jury members, meaning that the lower the score, the higher the place in he competition.

By no means the points in the "finals" table relate to finals alone.

1,47 Yulianna Avdeeva (1)
2,48 Ingolf Wunder (2)
2.50 Lukas Geniusas (2)
3,48 Daniil Trifonov (3)
3,92 Evegni Bozhanov (4)
5,17 Francois Dumont (5)

Does that order of candidates ring a bell? smile It's the final scoring for the whole competition with the lowest mark being the highest position on the podium, not the concerto score alone.


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Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1543124 10/25/10 12:23 PM
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So the scoring for the first three has the highest score as the best, but in the final it's not "yes-no" anymore so the lowest is the best(since lowest means 1 meaning first place)?

Or to ask my question differently:
The very first person in round one got 5 "yes" votes to go into round two. How did that result in an average score of 71?

Last edited by pianoloverus; 10/25/10 12:25 PM.
Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1543158 10/25/10 12:53 PM
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Quote

The very first person in round one got 5 "yes" votes to go into round two. How did that result in an average score of 71?


Let me quote the rules that clarify that point:

Quote

The 'yes/no' assessments are of primary importance in the first three stages of the Competition.

NB: Competitors recommended by the Juror for the next stage (marked 'YES')-and only those competitors-should be assigned at least 75 points. This figure will thus constitute the reference point for all the assessments awarded by the Juror in the successive stages.


In first three stages the jury members awarded BOTH yes/no marks AS WELL AS points (>75 for YES, <75 for NO). The average score of 71 is simply the average of all scores given by all jury members for this particular pianist, regardless of yes/no marking.


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Re: International Chopin Competition
Andromaque #1543170 10/25/10 01:06 PM
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There was an interview on the radio with Adam Harasiewicz, one of the Jury members of the radio. Courtesy of Helena Szczepanik, here is the summary:

- there were at least a few jury members who wanted first prize ex aequo for Wunder and Avdeeva (he named himself, Paleczny and Entremont)
-there were also a few who didn't see any winner (he named prof. Jasiński)
- he said that after Wund...er's Polonaise-Fantaisie Nelson Freire was so touched that he nearly cried but after all he (Freire) ranked Trifonov higher than Wunder and Avdeeva. Freire was not rather touched by Avdeeva’s playing
- he found Bozhanov a pianist ‘ with enormous talent and real personalité’, he added that a few of jury members ranked Bozhanov on 2 place overall but much of them didn’t like his style because he played himself not Chopin
-prof. Jasiński ranked Wunder in 2 place and Avdeeva in 4
- he found the final results the ‘question of taste’ and there are always ‘misunderstandings’ in the competition
- he admitted that if the rules of competition were left without change the result would be completely different but he ‘don’t know which pianist could make a profit from it.’ He added also that some jury members thought that ‘rules without change could rank some pianists too high even if they played final Concerto horribly’ (he pointed Bozhanov)
- there was no discussion in the final voting, each jury member just presented his final ranking without explanation ‘why’. He also mentioned that maybe if he was allowed to vote on Wunder the arithmetic result would rank the Austrian on the first place
- he said that Khozyainov was too immature and too sentimental for him
-he stated there was few pianists who were near to the real ‘chopinist style’. He praised some Trifonov mazurkas, he loved also Geniusas Etude in A flat Major
-he played down the importance of the fact that Avdeeva wasn’t qualified to eliminations; he repeated that her play was ‘good but not beautiful’ for him
- he accused the jury member who voted against Wunder’s appearance in the final of ‘lack of competence’ and he stated that it’s maybe kind of ‘specific asian taste’ (he didin’t say even Koyama’s name, but only ‘the Japanese jury member’)
- he said that he will rest diplomatic in concern of Polish pianists performances but nevertheless he liked Wakarecy’s simple and natural playing, he even considered him as one of laureats, he praised also Koziak’s Nocturne in F sharp Major


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Re: International Chopin Competition
Mati #1543204 10/25/10 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mati
Quote

The very first person in round one got 5 "yes" votes to go into round two. How did that result in an average score of 71?


Let me quote the rules that clarify that point:

Quote

The 'yes/no' assessments are of primary importance in the first three stages of the Competition.

NB: Competitors recommended by the Juror for the next stage (marked 'YES')-and only those competitors-should be assigned at least 75 points. This figure will thus constitute the reference point for all the assessments awarded by the Juror in the successive stages.


In first three stages the jury members awarded BOTH yes/no marks AS WELL AS points (>75 for YES, <75 for NO). The average score of 71 is simply the average of all scores given by all jury members for this particular pianist, regardless of yes/no marking.
Thanks! I finally get it.

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