Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
114 registered members (ajames, accordeur, 36251, ale h, aeroseb, anotherscott, 31 invisible), 2,031 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#153853 - 04/08/08 02:04 PM technical measures of touch performance  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 82
Bachfan39 Offline
Full Member
Bachfan39  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 82
Vancouver, BC
The touch and technical performance of a piano action is very important to me. I have sensitive finger joints, and as a result I think I need to have a "light action", one which is responsive and "quick" without requiring as much muscular force.

Can anyone comment about what type of technical measurements have been done regarding the mechanical performance of piano actions?
For example, measurements of maximum repetition rate?
Do all piano actions require the exact same amount of energy, work, or force to depress the key? There's stuff on the kawaii site I think, saying that their action has the best performance, but who knows what the evidence is exactly, between different piano brands or actions?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#153854 - 04/08/08 02:25 PM Re: technical measures of touch performance  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,715
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Rod Verhnjak  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,715
Vancouver B.C. Canada
I have not seen any definitive studies of what your looking for. Every piano will perform a bit different, even within the same models. What you need is an action with the least amount of inertia.

Has Kawai put every brand of piano on some machine and tested them? If they did were those pianos in optimum condition?
I don't think they have but I'm sure they have tested their own product and many do.

Kawais do have nice actions as do many manufactures.


Some actions do need less energy, work, or force to depress the keys. It has to do with friction and design and well as careful weighting of the keys for each individual piano.
Many mass produces weight the keys in a set pattern, wood density and hammer weight may be diffrent so the results are not uniform.
Some even weight they key before adjusting the friction and then the results are also inconsistent.


Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook

#153855 - 04/08/08 02:47 PM Re: technical measures of touch performance  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,715
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Rod Verhnjak  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,715
Vancouver B.C. Canada
If you find a piano that has the tone you like.
The action can be adjusted weight wise, if that's your need.
Or look for a brand that is more into a custom type of manufacturing.

It is not uncommon to find a keyboard that has a weight difference of 8 grams or more between neighboring notes. It is possible to have an action weighted within 2 grams which is less noticeable when playing. Most players can not discern between 2 grams.

Keyboards with less lead in the keys and are in the proper specs of key weight, will feel better than keys adjusted with lots of lead just to make it work. That brings us back to inertia and displacing mass.


Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook

#153856 - 04/08/08 08:04 PM Re: technical measures of touch performance  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,851
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Stevester  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,851
New Jersey
The following should give you a good idea what is going on.

http://www.pianofinders.com/educational/touchweight.htm

I also have rather weak hands and I prefer a lighter touch weight. It is my choise but I would not buy a piano that was not already playable for me and I would suggest you do the same. Yamaha is lighter than Kawai from what I have seen. Play everything you can get your hands on and don't let anyone talk you into buying anything you don't like (I have to keep telling myself that as well).


ps. I even carry 10 nickles taped together with a few extra in my pocket when I visit piano dealers to get an idea of what I like/need (50 grams or less for me). I was recently told by one dealer that the much older Steinways had/have a TW of as much as 60 grams.


"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#153857 - 04/08/08 09:15 PM Re: technical measures of touch performance  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,715
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Rod Verhnjak  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,715
Vancouver B.C. Canada
Stevester,

Great info.


Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook

#153858 - 04/08/08 09:36 PM Re: technical measures of touch performance  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,365
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member
ftp  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,365
Philadelphia
Stevester,

Thanks. I assembled my nickels and dimes and took the touchweight test. Now in addition to variations in humidity I can think about why each key isn't exactly the same. smile

#153859 - 04/08/08 11:09 PM Re: technical measures of touch performance  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 852
Peter Sumner- Piano Technician Offline
500 Post Club Member
Peter Sumner- Piano Technician  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 852
San Francisco
Always remember to put your foot on the accelerator pedal before applying the nickels and dimes...

You might want to isolate the 'up' weight as an indication of 'feel'....
Generally speaking, if the up weight is over 25 grammes you won't have any problem with excessive 'down' weight...
But there are re-builders out there with much more of this info for you....


Peter Sumner
Concert Piano Technician


#153860 - 04/08/08 11:58 PM Re: technical measures of touch performance  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,031
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member
schwammerl  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,031
Belgium
Bachfan39,

What has been mostly discussed above - touchweight/friction - in only part of the equation.

Although important, as it should fall within reasonable limits and be even across the keyboard - what is more important as to how an action feels is when INERTIA comes into play: the DYNAMIC PROPERTIES of an action mechanism.

See FAQ link below (especially the comments from Del - post 5 and subsequent):

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/35/16.html

schwammerl.


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Chopin Revolutionary Etude - Tempo?
by hag01. 06/22/17 02:25 PM
Searching for my perfect piano
by vais4pianists. 06/22/17 10:47 AM
Used QRS midi strip /Pianodisk midi strip
by Marc NY. 06/22/17 09:42 AM
1899 Knabe Concert Grand
by Keith D Kerman. 06/22/17 09:29 AM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,391
Posts2,638,211
Members88,153
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0