Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum My hands are getting old…

A sign of the times, I was laid off in May. Collected unemployment all summer, played my piano four hours or more every day, made fantastic progress. Then the money ran out…

Being 53, the only job I eventually found was as a baker/cook. Not too bad, except for the back-to-back 12-hour shifts Saturday and Sunday. Unfortunately, rolling dough, whisking batter, operating steam kettles, and generally working like a dog is trashing my hands, especially the right. It’s usually Wednesday before I can play without pain and without danger of permanent damage. I use tricks like wearing a wrist brace as I sleep to help the hand and wrist heal quicker.

Can anyone offer suggestions on techniques or exercises to reduce my “down time” on Monday and Tuesday? I currently spend those days working on arrangements, studying theory, and maybe practicing left hand stuff. And the hands are getting stronger, but being old, they’ll only get so strong.

I'm so stunned with admiration at what you're doing and what you've done that I can't even begin to think of suggestions.

Really.

And I'd bet that will be the reaction of many other people too.

But probably soon we'll be getting back to you with suggestions.

OK, let's see.....

If it were me, the first things I'd try or consider:

-- various kinds of do-it-yourself exercises of the hands and arms -- limbering up, loosening up, and/or stretching, maybe along with some whole-body movement to help give rhythm and momentum in order to require as little exertion as possible from the hands and arms themselves. And absolutely avoiding anything that felt like it was causing significant strain.

-- hot or warm soaks of the hands and arms, maybe while lying in the tub, for maybe 10-15 minutes at a time, or more if you have the time and it feels like it's doing something.

I wouldn't be sure at the outset if any of that would work, but I'd pay attention closely to see what "feels good" and seems like it's getting at something. I'd build on those things and discard what doesn't.

If I couldn't get anywhere on my own pretty quickly, I might try to see a physical therapist, preferably one who was specially recommended for this kind of thing by someone I trust.

Many people would talk about various kinds of medication, but I would try hard for natural approaches first, because they would have a chance to be getting at the basic problem.

P.S. I think 53 is just a kid.
You ain't that old.....

It's depressing, isn't it?
I think you need a combination of rest AND Physical Therapy. repetitive motion is never good. Don't over work.

Your hands have many muscles in them like the rest of your body. Muscles get stronger and in shape by being used (broken down) and then repaired. They have the ability to adapt to various strenuous situations by getting larger and stronger upon being regularly used....(swimmers have wide backs, speed skaters have huge thighs etc) but the only way to reach your full adaptation to your new activity is to allow for time to heal your muscles. (Rest!).

A bodybuilder/weightlifter never trains the same bodypart two days in a row. Many times they only train the same bodypart once, possibly twice a week. You MUST allow for rest/recovery or you will simply wear yourself out.

If you dedicate your hands several days a week to hard physical labor, you must rest them the other days of the week.

They need and WANT to recover. The pain is letting you know that.

You will eventually adapt unless you work your hands so much you wear them out.

That's the way we are built.

Yes, unfortunately it is a "sign of the times"...
I don't have any suggestions to give, but I want to leave you a word of solidarity. Better times will come.

My hands are getting old too..... aches and pains
early stages of arthritis.

.....and I am not yet 54!

Take care of yourself!

Fortunately, I spend many years as a trainer in a manufacturing environment and I know a LOT about repetitive motion injuries, there's little danger of those, my tendons are not involved. This is mostly muscle pain from hard physical labor. I shudder to think how more I’d be hurting if my arms and hands weren’t already strong from playing the piano. I expect things will improve. As I learn the job I can work “smarter” rather than harder and faster. For example I’ve learned if I add melted margarine to batter when it’s a bit dryer the whisking time is 30 seconds, not 2 minutes. And I whisk with the whole arm not the wrist – sound familiar piano players? But thanks for the useful thoughts.

There is good advice here.
You may try shifting a larger share of the load to the left hand. It can be tough in the beginning, but you will adapt. Time to heal is key. Piano may have to take a back seat until you are adapted to your new work load. I wish you well.

Has any of your co-workers given you any advice about ergonomics? You've already picked up some of it - "whisk with the whole arm and not the wrist." For many years I've been, among other things, a potter - which, believe it or not, has some overlap with being a baker. I've learned to do a lot of things (kneading, rolling, etc.) almost from my toes. Really. Foot position gives you stability that lets you put your whole torso & more behind those motions.

For remedial stuff, the physio who treated me after I injured my arm this past spring recommended squeezing a ball in warm water (I found some soft plastic fish, & they live in my bathtub) & lifting weights - just bicep, tricep & whatever-the-3rd-one's-called curls. It'll help your hands if your arm, shoulder, etc, muscles are stronger. & for specific hand pain, he had me twisting something I think was called a flex bar, & if I could find one anywhere here, I'd buy my own.

I got rsi in the hands from computer work. I did a bit of research on the web and what helped me was doing exercises from a book called "It's Not Carpal Tunnel Syndrome! RSI Theory and Therapy for Computer Professionals" by Suparna Damany & Jack Bellis, plus paying attention to ergonomics at the computer.

I also did wrist curls and reverse wrist curls with dumbells. At first I felt pain in my nerves when doing the wrist curls but it soon went away. So now it's pretty much not an issue, but I keep doing the exercises just in case.

I am not trying to be a smart guy, but is there any chance of looking for a different job? Perhaps 2 part time jobs? Or partial or full self-employment doing something else that you can do?

Maybe something will turn up that is not so harmful to your hands.

In my life, I have turned down jobs, or quit them, when it became clear that they could be harmful to my hands or fingers.

SPOFF - my sympathy. I think it is a good idea to rest for a couple of days after each hard weekend. You'll lose a lot more time if you get an injury so don't be tempted to cut the rest time short. Superhunky is right that your hand muscles and tendons should adapt during the rest period - so rest is important!

I've done quite a bit of physical labour in the past few months and I was surprised how tender some of my hand muscles became for a few days after mattock use for example. So i had a few days off from piano whenever I had overdone it with the labouring, then back to playing. Once the job was finished I was left with no injury and perhaps my hands are stronger in some ways. I think that as long as it doesnt hurt you can play piano alongside of baking job because they use the hands differently. What I mean is I don't think that piano playing will interfere with baking muscle recovery as long as it doesn't hurt. You may find that you are able to play on tuesdays in the near future, perhaps monday may remain a rest day, exercising your musical brain is a great idea.

The funny thing that I found was that the labouring changed my hands such that my piano playing became less accurate and less coordinated for a bit, rather like how children overshoot intervals after a growth spurt. All better now

Yes I think pottery is similar - oh boy I used to find that quite hard on my hands especially in winter. best wishes, Can

very interesting Spoff.

i used to cook/chef. i am 54 and my hands are worn out. However, i've learned to play with little effort. I practice very softly, i choose to 'map' songs, i challenge my memory and use my ipod to assist. I am also on some challenging meds that affect my joints and muscles. I save my energy for accompanying and my job.

Check out a video of Valentina Lesitsa playing on you tube and try to incorporate her languid, relaxed technique.

I wish you great luck.. I suspect that when you adjust and adapt to your new activity that your hands will rebound... lots of protein in your diet should help.

Spoff and Apple, Me too! I used to be a baker / cook for natural food bakery and café in a health food co-op. It was ahhh….years ago. I am very close in age to both of you. Mine was a bake-from-the-scratch bakery. I remember it was hard but rewarding work. I think it’s the creative part that was very satisfying. I was young but always very tired since I was going to school full time on top of my full time bakery job. I tried my best not to damage my fingers and the rest of my body. My advice is to think out your entire work steps in your head. Can you combine any activities? Alternating slow and fast works should help. Try to use others if you can. Ask for help if you need it. Maybe because of the muffin scrap I gave to those people, I got a lot of help. People were willing to help me when I needed to lift very heavy mats to clean the bakery at the end of the day. I also believe kneading the dough by hand made my hands stronger. Last but not the least; do not forget to listen to lots of music. It will keep your spirit up and very good for your musicianship.

I type all day for a living as a medical transcriptionist and was in chronic pain when I worked in hospital, but working at home now has allowed me to take a break whenever the pain starts up and relieve the stress. I also bake quite a bit as I'm gluten intolerant and make all my breads, muffins, brownies, etc from almond flour. My suggestion for piano playing is to sit on a high bench (or with perhaps a couple of hard cushions on top of your bench). It may sound simple, but I sit on a drafting chair for work to be up high for that as well, and it takes all the strain off my hands/arms to be leaning down into the keyboard. I'm sure I'd have carpal tunnel syndrome by now if I didn't sit on a high bench/chair. I would also suggest doing your mixing of dough on a low table so you're leaning over and using your whole body weight rather than just hands/arms to stir. Hope this helps. Good luck.

P.S. If you think you're having any nerve irritation or damage, vitamin B6 can help.

Update to an older thread: I'm the 53-year, unemployed all summer, and the only job I eventually found was as a baker/cook. In October, the long weekend hours were trashing my hands. Things have improved. The long shifts are a bit shorter because business is in the winter doldrums, but mostly I've adapted. The biggest change is I've lost 25 lbs and have gotten much stronger. That 30 lb case of bacon? I carry two. The 3 minutes to wisk a corn bread dough? Takes 60 seconds and my wrist doesn't even burn. After most shifts, there is no pain in my hands.

Playing the piano has taken a back seat, but my amount of playing is almost back to normal. And I've taken the last few months to not learn new pieces, but to revisit old ones that I had "sort of" learned. Some I've finally mastered, others I've polished so they are more musical.

Oddest of all, I've decided working as a cook isn't so bad. I just need to work myself up to full time at a reasonable amount of pay. Yep, starting over, for the fourth time in my career.

I'm glad it's working out so well - & that you've gotten so much stronger.

Thanks so much for the update. It's nice to hear that you're making this work for you, and I hope life also gives you a couple of breaks

I think it's amazing when I can go back to an older piece and make something more of it, so I hope you're getting a lot of satisfaction from that, too.

Thumbs up to you!

Cathy

Wow! Good for you, weight loss and increased strength and a job you don't mind doing and progress at the piano!