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Yes, that would e a "nice to have" (but I doubt that Kawai will implement this because of lack of mass interest and it most probably needs some hardware adjustments).

Now I have another question to you, TADutchman: In your great Steinway patch you used "Stretch tuning = wide". What does this do to the sound? I assume that this is also responsible for the remarkable sound of the patch, but I'm not too familiar with especially this setting.


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Originally Posted by Pinipon
TADutchman, you've made another great job: your Steinway "supercharged" 2.1 is really a BIG ONE!! I like the effect for open-lid, half open and closed-lid: is very realistic thumb

Thanks, Pinipon: there are more dual voice settings coming, but presets development has temporarily stopped because of my birthday. grin

Just a little hint to everybody: if you keep the voicing parameter in your active display then you can change 'the lid position' with just one simple button press during live playing! cool


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Originally Posted by mucci
Yes, that would be a "nice to have" (but I doubt that Kawai will implement this because of lack of mass interest and it most probably needs some hardware adjustments).

Well, we're talking top-of-the-line Kawai DP's here, so I would say for challenging the discussion: either offer a decent USB-recording function (even if it will be 'only' 16-bit contemporary CD-mastering quality) or do not offer one at all. In it's current state it's more like a toy; a my-first-Sony recording which cannot be effectively used to demonstrate the outstanding quality of the CA93/CA63; I thought Kawai was bad at marketing gimmicks? wink


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Originally Posted by mucci
Now I have another question to you, TADutchman: In your great Steinway patch you used "Stretch tuning = wide". What does this do to the sound? I assume that this is also responsible for the remarkable sound of the patch, but I'm not too familiar with especially this setting.

Okay, here's a reference for explaining the general principles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_tuning

In the specific case of this Steinway patch with a lot of extremely complex resonances, wide stretch tuning is effective in slightly reducing the frequency beating between notes (expressed in Hertz), especially making complex chords sound smoother. It's just the icing on the cake, but yes it certainly does contribute to the remarkable polyphonic sound and excellent playability! smile

Alternatively, for getting an idea of the limitations of wide stretch tuning, you could try the same with for instance the Bösendorfer, having less complex, almost 'additive synthesis'-like resonances (bell-like harmonics) and you'll see that the effect of wide stretch tuning may be negligible or even counter-productive in some cases, yielding a less characterful sound.


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Originally Posted by mucci
Now I have another question to you, TADutchman: In your great Steinway patch you used "Stretch tuning = wide". What does this do to the sound? I assume that this is also responsible for the remarkable sound of the patch, but I'm not too familiar with especially this setting.


see that link and try:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1448603/3.html#Post1511032

you will notice/hear a really clear difference in pieces with "wide" chords and octaves...

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Let's have some fun and go for a naming Quiz this weekend: who could name this new piano patch spot-on after testing? Some other feedback is welcome too! smile

Here are already a few options: wink
1. Toy Piano R1.0
2. Tweaked AvantGrand R1.0
3. Close Miked KAWAI EX - Surround Reverb R1.0
4. Real Acoustic R1.0
5. Big, Bright & Beautiful R1.0
6. other...
help


NO NAME ASSIGNED (yet) R1.0

Dual Voice: Concert Grand, volume 9 + Clavi, volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid +2, high -3

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 2
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 6
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: +2
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 5


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Should I perhaps call this update: The Piano Formerly Known As No Name Assigned (Yet)? grin wink I'm sure somebody will have a better idea... whistle


KAWAI EX ADDICTION R1.1

Dual Voice: Concert Grand, volume 9 + Clavi, volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid +2, high -3

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: normal (open-lid) / mellow 1 (half open) / mellow 2 (closed)
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 7
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: +2
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 4

Last edited by TADutchman; 10/18/10 01:29 AM. Reason: Renamed as proposed by Pinipon

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well... another good sound as you have accustomed us.
After trying for few moments, it must have a name of Grand piano: lid simulation, good dynamics, emphasis on Concert Grand (Kawai EX samples) - I propose:

KAWAI EX ADDICTION R1.1

what do you think confused wink

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I'd swear there was an extra percussive quality to it! smokin whome yippie


JAZZ & BLUES IMPROVISATION GRAND R1.0

Dual Voice: Jazz Grand, volume 9 + Marimba, volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: Bass boost

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: normal (open-lid) / mellow 1 (half open) / mellow 2 (closed)
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 8
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 6
2 - 5 Touch: light

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -2
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Stage

Effect: Delay 2, time 2, depth 2


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What would happen when you put your Studio Grand in a real Concert Hall? crazy shocked cool wow


THE BRILLIANT GRAND - SURROUND SOUND R1.0

Dual Voice: Studio Grand, volume 9 + Celesta, volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: Loudness

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: normal (open-lid) / mellow 1 (half open) / mellow 2 (closed)
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 6
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 8

Reverb: Hall 1

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 5



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First, before take-off, pump up the volume and remove your foot from the sustain pedal, or better trash it alltogether in order to experience the Rock&Roll way of life! mad cool smokin sick grin

Hint: just 'close the lid' to get a really friendly, family-proof top character heavenly singing upright, without that nasty rock bite (and retrieve & repair your sustain pedal before use). whistle wink


DIRTY UPRIGHT ROCK R1.0

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 7 + Rock Piano, volume 3

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid -1, high -3

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: bright 1 or 2 (open-lid) / normal (half open) / mellow 1 or 2 (closed)
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 8
2 - 3 String resonance: 9
2 - 4 Key off effect: 6
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Stage

Effect: Delay 2, time 1, depth 1

Rhythm: 8 Beat 2, tempo 120bpm


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These sounds are fantastic. The Bosie and the Steinway Grand Devotion are my favorite go-to's.


--- Estonia L190 #7249 ---
My great-grandfather was an opera singer
My grandfather was a pianist
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Originally Posted by Steve Deutsch
These sounds are fantastic. The Bosie and the Steinway Grand Devotion are my favorite go-to's.
Thanks for your feedback, Steve! smile

Watch out for my next preset project: I will be generating that typical lush acoustic and slightly imperfect sound of a Baby Grand in a large living room: http://www.bedandbreakfast.com/photo-dover-nh-lodging-silver_fountain_inn-lodging.html


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Sorry, wrong thread!

Last edited by voxpops; 10/20/10 09:56 AM.

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This is a dynamic soulful sound allright, nailed it, here it is: f blush cool shocked wow


WARM BABY-MEDIUM GRAND AT HOME R1.0

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 6 + Pop Piano 2, volume 4

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid +2, high -1

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 2 (closed-lid) / mellow 1 (half open)
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 8
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Stage

Effect: Delay 2, time 1, depth 4


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Do you want to be brighter and more reverberant than Richard Clayderman? grin wink


DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME R1.0

Dual Voice: Jazz Grand, volume 9 + Modern E.P., volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid -1, high +2

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: dynamic
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 10
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 10

Reverb: Hall 1

Effect: Delay 2, time 1, depth 1


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Man, this one is just like the organ my grandfather used to play, only better/worse... crazy smile


CHEESY VINTAGE PERCUSSIVE ORGAN R1.0

Dual Voice: Jazz Organ, volume 9 + Be 3, volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: mid reduce

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 2
2 - 5 Touch: off

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: +1

Reverb: Room 2

Effect: Rotary1 (fast), speed 4, accell.spd. 8


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What would happen when you add two Concert Grands together? confused
This yields a character with a very special sound signature! cool


BLENDED CONCERT GRANDEUR R1.0

Dual Voice: Concert Grand, volume 7 + Concert Grand 2, volume 3

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low 0, mid -1, high -5

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: normal (open-lid) / mellow 1 (half open) / mellow 2 (closed)
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 9
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 1

Effect: Delay 2, time 2, depth 3


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This one reads very promising. I will chrck it tomorrow evening!


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TADutchman, a question for you.
Those receiving first deliveries of the CA63 complained about polyphony problems and notes falling out in a disruptive fashion. This has since been addressed in a firmware update.

When you are layering two different piano sounds with every available effect turned on to obtain an acceptable piano tone, how much polyphony is left of the 196? It would seem to me that it might make playing high romantic or impressionistic music not so satisfying if there is only 196/2/22= around 24 notes of simultaneously sustained notes able to be played.


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