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Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: mucci] #1530741
10/08/10 05:52 AM
10/08/10 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mucci
theJourney... eek Your favourite topic again!!


Please tell us what you liked about the video that was paid out of profits of Kawai instruments, mucci.
Did they say anything interesting? Most of us would have no idea.
Nothing like advertisements that few can understand for products that even fewer can find for sale...at least they could call themselves "Kawai Germany" so that Kawai could actually develop a Kawai Europe presence to compete with Yamaha.


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Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1530748
10/08/10 06:04 AM
10/08/10 06:04 AM
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Well, please tell me of great video demos of other DP brands. Don't ask me why they made it the way it is. Maybe they have a limited budget? How many DPs do they sell compared to Yamaha? This one is clearly for German audience, it was taken out of the German part of the KAWAI Europe site, so what? Maybe another one is in production? I don't know, I even don't care. But anyway, isn't this forum about DPs and their build and sound quality and not so much about the way a company presents its products? At least this is what I would expect.


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1530750
10/08/10 06:09 AM
10/08/10 06:09 AM
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BTW, I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this, but the MP6 has only PHI (Progressive Harmonic Imaging), which is not the same as the UPHI (Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging) what is included in CA63 and CA93. I have no idea what the actual technology is behinde these buzz words, but I personally prefer the sound of UPHI after my tests. MP10 has UPHI, but fewer sounds. This in connection with the RM3 keyboard might suggest that MP10 might be better suited for pure piano playing.


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: mucci] #1530760
10/08/10 07:11 AM
10/08/10 07:11 AM
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Not many and stuff like this is why ....


Originally Posted by mucci
How many DPs do they sell compared to Yamaha?




"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Rhodie73] #1530766
10/08/10 07:26 AM
10/08/10 07:26 AM
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I'd rate the MP10's EP's as "very good" rather then "Great" .....


Originally Posted by Rhodie73
The MP6 really has me wondering. While I always like to get the "Top of the line" DP out of a series (the MP series), the MP6 has a lot of the M10's specs but without the price (Sweetwater says: MP10~$2499.00 USD and MP6~$1499.00 USD) and the weight. I already own an RD700GXF, but I am curious about the MP's for better Rhodes and possible better dimensions (actual width for gigging). I just can't stand the fact that Roland continues to extend their STAGE PIANOS with a joystick pitch bender more suitable for their synths. Kawai was very smart for not extending their boards anymore than they have to. It would be very interesting to see if these new MP series's can pass the acoustic piano (emulation) looping test. Basically are there noticeable looping in the samples. I am very curious about this, because I have been somewhat spoiled with my RD700GXF and audible looping (now) just will not do for me (like in the past when there was really no choice...older DP technology).

BTW....Kawai James, that demo sounds great and the Rhodes emulations really sound good. Do the new Rhodes emulations use the same PHI technology as the acoustic pianos? I ask this because I know that Kawai digital acoustic piano emulations have been great for non-noticeable velocity layers (unfortunately in previous models the sound didn't work for me, maybe now though in these newer models). I only hope that the EP's (Rhodes emulations and Wurlitzer) have the same wide dynamic range.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: theJourney] #1530833
10/08/10 09:39 AM
10/08/10 09:39 AM
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I can't believe people are complaining about a video because it's in German.
Not everyone speaks English, and I assume that in that video's target market, more people speak German than English! I'm sure there will be English demos made too. What difference does it make which ones are posted first? Especially when the product isn't even available yet for anyone to buy! In the mean time, would we be better off with no demo at all? If you want to vent frustration that Kawai USA hasn't posted a video yet, okay, but don't take it out on the helpful work some other division did for their own market.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1530881
10/08/10 10:39 AM
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+1 agree

Still I find it hard to jugde sounds /playability of these instruments by sound demo's or demo movies online. Judging from this particular video, I didn't think the electric piano's were that special (and the synth sound could have better been left out). Hope there are some units in the stores soon to testplay, but I afraid I'll just have to order and find out myself ...

That said, I think the Mp6 has a fair price for what it offers. If they only had included the UHPI acoustic grand and skip some other redundant sounds in it's place, but that discussion has been taken place before. Let's play !


Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: sullivang] #1530929
10/08/10 11:42 AM
10/08/10 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Faster repetition is only part of the picture. Casio (and Yamaha, and Roland), have added the third sensor so that the overall behaviour is closer to a real grand piano, in the following ways:

1. It allows repetitions for relatively small key returns - LIKE A REAL GRAND PIANO
2. It allows repetitions without the dampers coming into contact with the strings - LIKE A REAL GRAND PIANO
3. It allows the strings to be damped at a relatively high point in the key return - LIKE A REAL GRAND PIANO (and also like an upright piano too)



The new Casios may have the third sensor, but they still don't really feel like real pianos. You have to look at the whole package. It is possible that some other keyboard may play more like a real piano than the Casio does, even if it doesn't have the third sensor, and in that case, that's what I would prefer. (Even if the Casio lets me do same-key repetition faster... which I still wouldn't assume is necessarily *always* the case in a competing 2-sensor design, without actually trying it. The way I see it, it's possible that the only reason that the third sensor needs to be used to address this issue is that the keys aren't naturally returning fast enough in the first place, and a different action design might address that as well.)

As for your specifics for benefits of a third sensor *other* than permitting fast repetition:

I don't understand your point #3. My understanding is that a regular 2-sensor design has a "high point" sensor which is used to trigger the "note off" (and as a starting point for determining the velocity for the "note on"), along with a "low point" sensor which actually triggers the "note on." Why would a third sensor be needed to damp the sound "at a relatively high point in the key return"? Isn't that the normal behavior of a 2-sensor design?

As for points 1 and 2, what actual benefits are there to these behaviors *other* than permitting fast repetition? Would you be aware of them in any other kind of playing?

On a real piano, yes, you can actually lift the key just high enough to permit re-playing the key without allowing the damper to fall (as you describe in point 2) *or* a little higher to permit a re-play with the string damped between the strikes (still without having allowed the key to come up to near the beginning of its travel), the latter being what I think is more commonly desired. To recreate both of these scenarios electronically, you would need four sensors, not three (and the re-strikes from the different points would have to be programmed to trigger either damped or undamped samples). I'm not sure I see much real world benefit to this, though, or that I would actually even notice it in actual playing. I think we have a ways to go in making these relatively inexpensive and portable pianos more authentic before even beginning to think about that level of minutia. There are so many more noticeable flaws to be addressed.

As I just mentioned in another thread, while there is a lot I like about the Casios, if I'm evaluating *strictly* on how much they feel/respond/sound like playing a real piano, I'd still pick the 2-sensor single-layer (I think) Yamaha P-95 over the 3-sensor 4-layer PX-330. I think the Yamaha provides a more authentic piano experience in feel and dynamics. You can't look at the technologies in a vacuum. Solid implementation of basic technology can sometimes out-perform things that sound better on paper.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: anotherscott] #1530978
10/08/10 12:50 PM
10/08/10 12:50 PM
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Hungary, Europe
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
I can't believe people are complaining about a video because it's in German.
Not everyone speaks English, and I assume that in that video's target market, more people speak German than English!


As far as I can tell, this is not true. The language of the current World Empire is English, thus the language of everything international is English, thus almost everybody in Europe (above a given level of IQ) has learnt to speak English. (That is true in Germany, too.)

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1531068
10/08/10 03:13 PM
10/08/10 03:13 PM
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I have to mention the american presentation video of the mp5 and mp8ii. Even cheesier and possibly aimed at home shopping tv. I like how the man tells us the great portability of the mp5 and not saying a word of the mp8. Almost emphasing that the mp8ii is one heavy pieace of... slab. Won't link it as it might hurt sales of the newer models :) 

Oh what the heck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kut2kcdjPo

Kawai outside Japan seems intent on pushing DPs as used cars. Might work for some. Ain't working for me.

I think most users of this forum have enough self reservation to actually go down and try the keybead and sound combination before buying - if possible. Mere marketing hype isn't enough to sway us, right? (right smile ).

I used to live in Berlin until a couple of month back and though most people understand english pretty good there are a fair amout of people who simply refuse to talk back in anything else than german (especially older folks, odd no?). I think the general mindset is something in the line of "if it's aired in germany, it's going to be in german, or thou shallt be dubbed!". I've known people who actually prefer the dubbed voices of certian actors in american movies aired in germany. Oh my! wandering off topic here.

I'm going to find a music store with the CA93 to get my hopes back up for the mp10, it does seem as the perfect instrument on paper, if I just can hold out that long.

Last edited by FredFabulous; 10/08/10 03:19 PM.

RD-700NX (25 nov 2010)
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: FredFabulous] #1531143
10/08/10 05:00 PM
10/08/10 05:00 PM
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I'd purchase my piano from a German-speaking, 350 pound mutation of Simon Cowell, Rosie O'Donnell, and Papa Smurf -- donning a tutu and combat boots from an 80s-nostalgia consignment shop..... IF the piano purchased was the best digital piano available for the price.

How many would rather play their second choice, just so they could have their feelings stroked by a pleasant purchase experience or slick marketing?

But, that's me, perhaps not the masses.

Interestingly, there are a lot of complaints about how hard it is to try a Kawai. I'll join that club. Kawai dealers are several hours away. Even those dealers may not have the MP6 or MP10 available. If so, Kawai loses.

It would not surprise me if Kawai is torn between supporting/retaining their current distributors and getting their units into Guitar Center. Unfortunately, getting the units into Guitar Center/chains probably may the only way to get Kawai sales up to Roland and Yamaha levels.

And because a dealer is nearby, doesn't mean you can explore the organic dynamics of an instrument's sound at that dealer. I have never been in a Guitar Center or Sam Ash that didn't have some pimple-faced kids repetitively playing the same rock riff at high decibel. The noise starts when the doors open; no private booths available. Trying to evaluate a Martin or PAF in this atmosphere is impossible, much less a digital replication of an acoustic piano. At a Kawai dealer, at least I can try the board in peace, without much sales harassment.

I may purchase a Kawai or a Roland (I'll try Nord/Yam too) in a three months or so. Roland has my attention, due to improvements in sound and a 700$ gap closing on pricing between the rd700GXNX and MP8ii-10.

Though I agree a longer/more diverse trial of the acoustic pianos is of more interest to most of us, I didn't think the video was THAT bad. If Lady Gaga is the new hip, the guy in the video should remain in the 1980s. He'll be far less embarrassed, in the long run.

Finally, I am always impressed and appreciative of the European mastery of English. Many Americans haven't mastered English at the level of many Europeans, particularly writing it.



Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Csillag] #1531180
10/08/10 05:59 PM
10/08/10 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Csillag
Originally Posted by anotherscott
I can't believe people are complaining about a video because it's in German.
Not everyone speaks English, and I assume that in that video's target market, more people speak German than English!


As far as I can tell, this is not true. The language of the current World Empire is English, thus the language of everything international is English, thus almost everybody in Europe (above a given level of IQ) has learnt to speak English. (That is true in Germany, too.)


I don't agree with that. I lived for some time in Germany some years ago without speaking German, and if things have not changed notably since then, there were a lot of people that did not spoke English, or just had a basic knowledge of it. Of course, no complain here: it was me that, being at Germany, didn't speak German, so it was my fault blush

Yeah, the more literate ones spoke English, but not everybody is one of the most literate ones... the same would be true for France, Italy or Spain. In Netherlands I think that everybody speaks English as well as Dutch, but that is the exception.

So, if you want to sell a product in Europe, better to speak the language of the countries where you are going to sell it. I agree that an English video would had reached more people, but I guess it is on the way. A video in German is a lot better than no video at all. And you can listen to the sound of the thing without translator.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1531208
10/08/10 06:41 PM
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The video wasn't -that- bad, we're just poking fun at it smile

But sadly it does sum up kawai marketting in a way.


RD-700NX (25 nov 2010)
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: FredFabulous] #1531245
10/08/10 08:11 PM
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I tried to ignore the aesthetics of the production - and the language (difficult to filter out the backing tracks, though wink ). I'm much more interested in how the MP6 sounds and plays. From what I heard, although I wasn't blown away, I was generally pleased. It sounds like a good all-rounder at a sensible price. It's very high on my list at the moment (even higher since I just sold both my RD-300SX and my Electro 3 shocked )


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1531254
10/08/10 08:30 PM
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voxpops, you sold the Electro 3 and didn't even give me first dibs?!

Cheers,
James
x



Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1531255
10/08/10 08:32 PM
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I'd love Nords if they weren't so dammed .....red.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James] #1531337
10/08/10 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
voxpops, you sold the Electro 3 and didn't even give me first dibs?!

Cheers,
James
x


Sorry James, but I didn't want you getting over-excited and having another accident wink


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Dr Popper] #1531339
10/08/10 11:12 PM
10/08/10 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I'd love Nords if they weren't so dammed .....red.

[Linked Image]

Take your pick, Doc!


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Dr Popper] #1531472
10/09/10 05:01 AM
10/09/10 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I'd love Nords if they weren't so dammed .....red.

Look here http://www.bauer-music.de/digital-pianos/bauer-music-white-line/index.html

I think they deliver any piano in white on request for a small extra charge...


1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1531581
10/09/10 10:34 AM
10/09/10 10:34 AM
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Question for James or any other techno-wizard: is it possible to control the "drawbars" on the MP6 via midi (using a midi fader device), and if so, how? I've looked at the manual but cannot work out if it's doable.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
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