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Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529188
10/06/10 06:20 AM
10/06/10 06:20 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Come on Greg, enough speculation - get yourself over to your local Kawai dealer and give the RM3 Grand action a try!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
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Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: sullivang] #1529193
10/06/10 06:39 AM
10/06/10 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Yes, I expect the RM3 to be able to repeat with a 50% release, if it's anything like my old MP9000.


I think the MP9000 has very much the same action (AWA Grand Pro) as my CP136. If so, then you should see/hear/feel a big improvement with the RM3 action.


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Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529198
10/06/10 06:48 AM
10/06/10 06:48 AM
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sullivang Offline
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FWIW, I just measured my Casio PX-330, using a tyre tread depth gauge:

Total Key Travel: 11mm
Note-Off point: 6mm/55% release
Partial-repeat release: 4mm/36% release

Prior to this I had only eye-balled it, and I got it wrong. It is hard to estimate the distances by just looking.

I have, though, measured my MP9000 at 50% release in the past.

Greg.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: hpeterh] #1529200
10/06/10 06:50 AM
10/06/10 06:50 AM
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sullivang Offline
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Originally Posted by hpeterh


I think the MP9000 has very much the same action (AWA Grand Pro) as my CP136. If so, then you should see/hear/feel a big improvement with the RM3 action.


Of course! I'm just skeptical at the moment that the note-off point will be much different, that's all.

I am 100% certain that any concert pianist would much prefer the RM3 action, even if it only has two sensors, to my tri-sensor Casio action. laugh

Greg.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James] #1529206
10/06/10 07:10 AM
10/06/10 07:10 AM
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sullivang Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Come on Greg, enough speculation - get yourself over to your local Kawai dealer and give the RM3 Grand action a try!

Cheers,
James
x


Sorry, I had missed this. smile I'm puzzled, though. The CA93 is an existing product, so why can't you simply answer the question for us? In any case, yes, I'll endeavour to try one tomorrow. I'd rather you saved me the trouble and simply answered the question though. smile

Greg.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529218
10/06/10 07:33 AM
10/06/10 07:33 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Please remind me - what was the question again?

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529224
10/06/10 07:42 AM
10/06/10 07:42 AM
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sullivang Offline
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The question is:

How will the CA93 behave when the following test is performed:
(same question for the MP10):

1. Turn the volume up quite high
2. Play a note forte, but do NOT lift off the key yet.
3. Slowly release the key, until the note terminates, but no further than this.
4. Note the point in the key travel at which the note terminates.
5. Lift off the key completely.
6. Repeat steps 2 to 5 as required to get a good feel for the note termination point.
7. Play a note forte again, and again, do not lift off.
8. Slowly release the key. This time, stop at a point JUST below the note termination point. Hold the key at this position with one finger.
9. With the OTHER hand, push down on the same key with a forte force.
10. If the action simulates double-escapement, you will hear a NEW NOTE, without the original note ever being terminated first. If it does not simulate double-escapement, you will merely hear the ORIGINAL note continue to decay.

Sorry for hassling you - I appreciate your presence here. smile

Thanks,
Greg.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529231
10/06/10 07:50 AM
10/06/10 07:50 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Ah, I'm sorry, I'm afraid I honestly don't know the answer to that.

It strikes me that you are rather familiar with the different action mechanisms, therefore if you wish to check any technical characteristics of the RM3 Grand action, I strongly recommend that you visit your local Kawai dealer and play-test the action yourself.

But please be sure to report your findings back to the PW faithful. wink

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529233
10/06/10 07:55 AM
10/06/10 07:55 AM
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My answer is (for CA63): It does not simulate double escapement. There is no way to do this with 2 sensors.

I strongly believe that this is identical on a CA93, because the only difference in keyboard action is the escapement emulation, but not an additional third sensor. Mabe someone else with a CA93 can confirm...


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James] #1529295
10/06/10 09:28 AM
10/06/10 09:28 AM
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Hancock Park LA (not again)
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Dr Popper Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
DrPopper,

Quote
Unfortunately in the circumstances where I am coming from I don't have the ability to get the MP10 so it must be between Yamaha and Roland regardless.


May I ask why this is the case? A contractual obligation/restriction, perhaps?

Kind regards,
James
x


No restrictions I am not under any exclusive obligations with anyone.

I was playing it on the weekend and nobody said anything at all so I'd guess with the MP10 If I wanted one I'd have to actually buy it !




"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Dr Popper] #1529309
10/06/10 09:53 AM
10/06/10 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
No restrictions I am not under any exclusive obligations with anyone.

I was playing it on the weekend and nobody said anything at all so I'd guess with the MP10 If I wanted one I'd have to actually buy it !


More evidence of the difference in marketing between Kawai and the rest of the world?

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529392
10/06/10 11:48 AM
10/06/10 11:48 AM
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Munich, Germany
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mucci Offline
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Munich, Germany
Hey I'll promote any DP brand if I get it for free... wink What the....


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Dr Popper] #1529410
10/06/10 12:10 PM
10/06/10 12:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,497
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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DrPopper,

Quote
I was playing it on the weekend and nobody said anything at all...


Are you referring to the staff on the Kawai booth?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529531
10/06/10 02:29 PM
10/06/10 02:29 PM
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The Netherlands
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JFP Offline
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The Netherlands
Hi everyone,

referring to my earlier question about keybeds; I know by experience that the RM3 is a really great keybed, but going down the ladder how is the new RH in comparison ? And how does it hold up against the competing PHA-IIIs that is build in the RF7F ?

I didn't like the PHAIII on the V-piano (too much 'thumb thumb') , but I did like the PHAII on the RD700GX and expect the "new" incarnations of PHAIII to be quite good and less noisy. If the RH on the MP6 is like 90% as good as the RM3 and comparable to the PHAIII in quality, I want to make a pre-order for the MP6. Simply because it's more portable than the MP10. If it's very inferior to the RM3 in realistic touché and/or the PHAIII is really better as an alternative, than I'll either go for the FP7F , or wait for the MP10 and decide later...

Any help would be appreciated, because I'm about to pull the trigger on this for a MP6 / FP7F pre-order so I won't have to wait another 3 months before I can try it in the shop or get one from later shipment batches.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529670
10/06/10 05:55 PM
10/06/10 05:55 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Good morning JFP,

Quote
I know by experience that the RM3 is a really great keybed, but...how is the new RH in comparison ?


It's really great, and can be play-tested in the CN33 and - albeit without let-off simulation - CN23 instruments that are already available in stores.

Quote
And how does it hold up against the competing PHA-IIIs that is build in the RF7F ?


I expect only Dr Popper will be able to answer that one.

Quote
If the RH on the MP6 is like 90% as good as the RM3 and comparable to the PHAIII in quality, I want to make a pre-order for the MP6.


90%? What does that mean?

Quote
Any help would be appreciated, because I'm about to pull the trigger on this for a MP6 / FP7F pre-order so I won't have to wait another 3 months before I can try it in the shop or get one from later shipment batches.


I expect the majority of folks here would recommend that you play-test all of the instruments under consideration before purchasing. If for some reason this is not possible, I strongly urge you to try the instruments that feature the same keyboard actions and are available.

Minimising the amount of guess-work from this decision is surely the best way to avoid being disappointed.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James] #1529730
10/06/10 08:14 PM
10/06/10 08:14 PM
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Hancock Park LA (not again)
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Yeah they didn't seem to pay much attention.

Originally Posted by Kawai James
DrPopper,

Quote
I was playing it on the weekend and nobody said anything at all...


Are you referring to the staff on the Kawai booth?

Cheers,
James
x


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Dr Popper] #1529833
10/07/10 12:32 AM
10/07/10 12:32 AM
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sullivang Offline
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I've now tested an RM3-based piano (CA93), and it does NOT emulate double-escapement. I assume the MP10 will be the same.

I measured the total key travel at 11m, and the damping point at 5mm/45% release.

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 10/07/10 12:35 AM.
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529840
10/07/10 12:47 AM
10/07/10 12:47 AM
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Greg, thank you for providing this information.

May I ask to what extent these findings influenced your playing enjoyment? What were your overall impressions of the 'RM3 Grand' action, and indeed, the CA93?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529855
10/07/10 01:10 AM
10/07/10 01:10 AM
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James,
I'm sorry, but I only did that one test. I told the salesman that I only wanted to do a very quick test, so that's what I did.

Greg.

Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie] #1529859
10/07/10 01:15 AM
10/07/10 01:15 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Okay, fair enough. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
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