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Estonia Pianos
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Some differences related to sound and touch for CN33 compared to CA63:

- Short plastic keys vs long wooden keys.
- Less sounds on board: 36 vs 60.
- Similar sound signature, but sample dynamics and length slightly less good (especially in the bass range).
- Simpler speaker system and lower output power.
- Missing equalizer, dynamic layering and hammer hardness (voice intonation) parameters, making tweakability very limited, so basically the factory standard should do.

What the CN33 and CA63 share is an excellent price-performance ratio in their own class! thumb


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CA 63 miss the let-off, that CN33 has


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
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Thanks, making a complete list apparantly is too difficult for me this Friday grin wink

...maybe the CA18 should also be considered...


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Originally Posted by Qbert
CA 63 miss the let-off, that CN33 has


Can you provide more details on this?

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Sorry? I'm simply reading the fetures on Kawai site (CA63):

CA93
Keyboard: 88 wooden keys with Ivory Touch key surfaces
Action: RM3 Grand with Let-off

CA63
Keyboard: 88 wooden keys with Ivory Touch key surfaces
Action: RM3 Grand

CN33

Action: RH Action with let-off, 88 weighted keys with Ivory Touch key surfaces

Last edited by Qbert; 07/30/10 04:29 AM.

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TADutchman, the CN33's 'Dual' function allows two sounds to be layered together. It is also possible to adjust the volume ratio of the two sounds using the balance slider.

Cheers,
James
x


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I know James, that are 'static layer' settings, but I'm referring to 'Layer Dynamics' which in my experience are essential to really match two dual layered sounds together.

Looking for a quote, Page 67 of your CA93/CA63 manual states the following: wink

4 Layer Dynamics
When using Dual mode, sometimes simply adjusting the volume balance between the two layered sounds is not enough to create the desired sound character, especially if both sounds are very dynamic. Layering two equally dynamic sounds can prove difficult to control and play comfortably.

The Layer Dynamics Function allows the dynamic sensitivity of the layered sound to be reduced, in order to improve the blend between the two combined sounds. In addition to reducing the volume of the layered sound, limiting its dynamic sensitivity also allows the layered sound to be controlled more easily in relation to the main sound.


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TADutchman, thank you for clarifying this point.

It is true that the CN33 does not feature the Layer Dynamics control.
The CN42, however, does offer this functionality.

Cheers,
James
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Last edited by Steve Deutsch; 09/27/10 02:19 PM.

--- Estonia L190 #7249 ---
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Cozy.

I'm eagerly waiting for mine to arrive.


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Originally Posted by Steve Deutsch


Concerned piano owners don't let their children drink pints of pale ale next to the keyboard.

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Nice shot, Steve. thumb

By the way, looking at your signature, I'm still wondering what YOU do actually. smile


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Steve, do you have any gap between the piano and the wall?

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Lovely picture, thanks Steve!

Congrats on your new piano!

Cheers,
James
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Originally Posted by theJourney
Concerned piano owners don't let their children drink pints of pale ale next to the keyboard.

Not to worry - the child's quaff is probably far enough away not to be endangering the DP.

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Originally Posted by Pinipon
Steve, do you have any gap between the piano and the wall?

In case of the CA93 you can optimise the amount of acoustic (surround) experience this way and I'm not only talking about the soundboard, but also the 4 mid-range speakers that are positioned upwards; what about the CA63?


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Originally Posted by TADutchman
Originally Posted by Pinipon
Steve, do you have any gap between the piano and the wall?

In case of the CA93 you can optimise the amount of acoustic (surround) experience this way and I'm not only talking about the soundboard, but also the 4 mid-range speakers that are positioned upwards; what about the CA63?


- There isn't a wall setting on the CA63 like there is on the CA93.

- With any speakers, its always best to leave at least a small gap between the speaker and the wall to counter bass boom. My ca63 sounds fine to me (sat at it) with about an inch between it and the wall. I don't know what it sounds like for anyone listening though...

Andy T

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Originally Posted by AndyT
Originally Posted by TADutchman
Originally Posted by Pinipon
Steve, do you have any gap between the piano and the wall?

In case of the CA93 you can optimise the amount of acoustic (surround) experience this way and I'm not only talking about the soundboard, but also the 4 mid-range speakers that are positioned upwards; what about the CA63?


- There isn't a wall setting on the CA63 like there is on the CA93.

- With any speakers, its always best to leave at least a small gap between the speaker and the wall to counter bass boom. My ca63 sounds fine to me (sat at it) with about an inch between it and the wall. I don't know what it sounds like for anyone listening though...

Andy T


I think as the CA-63 does not have soundboard and the speakers are facing downwards there is no need for a gap between the instrument and the wall.

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Originally Posted by Belger1900
Originally Posted by AndyT
Originally Posted by TADutchman
Originally Posted by Pinipon
Steve, do you have any gap between the piano and the wall?

In case of the CA93 you can optimise the amount of acoustic (surround) experience this way and I'm not only talking about the soundboard, but also the 4 mid-range speakers that are positioned upwards; what about the CA63?


- There isn't a wall setting on the CA63 like there is on the CA93.

- With any speakers, its always best to leave at least a small gap between the speaker and the wall to counter bass boom. My ca63 sounds fine to me (sat at it) with about an inch between it and the wall. I don't know what it sounds like for anyone listening though...

Andy T


I think as the CA-63 does not have soundboard and the speakers are facing downwards there is no need for a gap between the instrument and the wall.


At first time, my CA63 was against the wall and I heard a little noise in the right woofer when I pressed D2 and D#2: I though it maybe caused by a wire or by the woofer grid (bad fixation) confused ; bass was not so deep as I expected and loud very "hard" and bright. I think this is easily explained because the wall don't let the instrument to vibrate freely, damp the low frequency vibrations and increase the high frequencies. It also cause multiple vibration interferences (because of mechanical vibration reflections phenomena) inside the instrument which can lead some parts to reach a resonance frequency.

As Andy T, now I have 5cm between the piano and the wall: no more noise can be heard, the bass are really deep, the loud are not so bright and the overall timber is better smile

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Thanks for the nice replies all!

Regarding the ale, Caitlin really prefers wort before it's boiled, hopped and fermented, no worries. That finished product (indeed a pale ale) is mine (different hobby). I can tell you it is handy having a nice little drink shelf that doesn't endanger the gear.

Regarding the sound and placement, it's unfortunate but I experience a buzzing noise coming from the speakers when in the lower registers. It's a definite problem and I have Kawai support coming out to look at it. The piano's not carrying anything that vibrates, it's a solid 3 inches away from all walls (about 7.5 cm), and it really seems to be coming from the speakers themselves.

If support can't fix it I think I might upgrade to a CA93. Seems like that has a better sound system?


--- Estonia L190 #7249 ---
My great-grandfather was an opera singer
My grandfather was a pianist
...
We'll see what my kids do
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