Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Does your hands also get tired?

My hands get tired after playing for some time, does this also happen to you?. Whats the best way to avoid this?. Is it necessary to take some rest?

I suspect you have a lot of playing tension, which causes your hands to tire. By all means rest - that's imperative - but get some help for your piano technique, too. A good teacher can get you on the right track.

Playing with excess tension will get you in real trouble if you practice industriously. Trust me... a wrist surgery later, I wish I'd gotten help for my technique years sooner.

Well I actually have a teacher, can you give me some tips to relax and not be tense?

Have you mentioned your problem to her/him?

Having proper relaxation involves proper "tension" in other places. Your shoulder, elbow, upper and lower arm must be totally limp and relaxed - feeling like sandbags - but all of your finger joints should be like steel. When you have achieved this, then the weight of your shoulders and arms is able to reach the keys and depress them. You never "hit" a key or "punch" it. The weight of your arms presses the keys evenly without tiring your hands and arms. Keep a flexible wrist, too - but don't let it collapse below the level of the keyboard. It will help to play more slowly at first to get the feel of playing properly.

This all takes practice, but take heart - it's possible, and when you can achieve this, it's very freeing. If I can help, please ask more questions... and if I can't answer them, I'm sure there's somebody here who can. Good luck!

No, my hands generally does not get tired. If yours does, I suggested you had see a doctors.

The comments about tension are valid but you must remember that any set of muscles will get tired with use. Are your practice sessions longer than usual? Is the music you are playing more difficult than what you have learned before? Are you using a different instrument or bench? If so, you simply have to build up your muscles gradually like you would with any sort of exercise. Fatigue means it's time to rest.

If your practice sessions, instrument and music difficulty haven't changed, then it sounds like the fatigue is unusual. This could be due to tension, as others have said, or it could mean you have a health condition that needs looking into. If these conditions apply, see your doctor.

Yes my practice sessions last longer than before and I am including technical excercises such as hanon, scales, etc

Oh, I see. Improper technique with Hanon was what got me into trouble. Gooddog's comments on length are very important - take a 10-minute break at least every hour of practice. But if that doesn't work, then most likely you either have a physical problem or a technique issue. I suspect the latter, just from what little you've said.

Can anyone give me more tips?

Tips? Stay relaxed, increase your practice time gradually but not to the point of pain or severe fatigue, rest when you are tired. Really, it's just like any physical workout. You have to build up gradually so you don't hurt yourself and make sure you are using good technique.

Is it allright to take one day to rest?

Is it all right to take one day to rest?

What's wrong with the ones you got already?

.....and I think some of us appreciated hat's reply too.

You want more tips? Get a good teacher.

I think it's equally not making enough of the terrific posts that have appeared.

I like to ask you guys, how much does fatigue become a factor in your practice, if you are practicing 4+ hrs a day? There are people who practice like 8-10 hrs a day.. are they able to do that because they can stay relaxed, or does part of that come from building some sort of physical endurance?

The reason I ask this is because a good practice requires a very focused and very repetitive motion. When you are grinding things, sometimes are you going over the same 1-2 measures over and over again before you can play them fluently. And also, there are some technique that seem to require some sort of strength.. like playing octaves or playing trills with 4th and 5th finger.

one of my teacher (He went to grad school at Julliard) told me you can only do 2-3 hrs of effective practice for technique in a single day. You can learn more notes but your chops won't necessary improve after that. Do you guys agree?

I am a jazz pianist, and I realized that I can do 7 hrs of practice/playing a day at most. at one point I was doing 6-10 hrs a day and I ended up having major injury problems.. so I am still wondering how some people can practice 8-10 or even 12 hrs a day without hurting themselves.

Me no understando..

When the day is done, you should have no pain anywhere. If you do, it means you're doing something wrong. Yes, you'll get tired but mentally, not physically..

Does tired mean painful to you? Playing repititive scales and things fast will tire you out but it's just a matter of endurance. Pain means you're obviously doing something wrong. It depends on what you mean by tired.

Maybe some teachers could comment on this . . . I watched your Youtube video of the Rondo Alla Turca (nice!) - as apple noted in that thread, try moving back from the keyboard a bit. To help dispel tension, try some shoulder shrugs - slowly raise your shoulders up and back, hold, relax, repeat.

How tall are you? I think you have the same problem I do - you have a long torso, and if you sit up straight, you are really a couple of inches too tall for the standard keyboard height (or any standard desk for that matter). It's an ergonomic nightmare and it creates nasty tension. Years spent hunched over desks and computer keyboards have given me some painful thoracic symptoms. I don't have a good solution for that - you can't just raise the piano without somehow lengthening the pedals, and shortening the bench legs just puts your knees under your chin and makes you look funny. :0

I wish piano makers would realize that people are, on average, some 2-3 inches taller than we were 100 years ago. We need adjustable height pianos!

Agree, the little grey cells could get tired, but the hands never should!

Really? If I go from 0 hours/day practicing, to 5 hours a day, where I am holding my forearms parallel to the floor I shouold not get not get tired? There are muscles in the arms that move the fingers. I find it hard to believe that even with proper technique that these muscles don't need to be conditioned. The last book I read on musicians' injuries did advise gradually increasing practice times.

Arghhh

Yea I find it hard to believe there would be no physical fatigue after practicing for that long, especially when you are working on demanding repertoires. One of my teacher had me work on Octaves and she did tell me that your hands will get tired working on them, and I was also told I need to build my strength so that my fingers won't "buckle inwards".

When i was in college, injury problem among musicians who practiced 5+hrs a day was quite common. Fatigue shouldn't be a factor if you are practicing 2-3 hrs a day but once you start doing like 5-10 hrs every day it's a different story.

Are you guys saying that with proper coordination, virtually no physical effort is needed to play the piano? Hypothetically can you practice 8hrs of hanon everyday and not get injured if you stayed relaxed??

Some people can run a marathon without getting too tired or injuring themselves. If I tried that, even while utilizing the same running techniques, I'd be dead. Same principle applies to piano. Gradually build your stamina up, keep finding ways to improve your technique, and never over-exert yourself.

Sorry to say this, but if you were doing things right you wouldn't get injured playing 5 hours a day. 5 hours isn't even that much, if you think about it. But don't be stupid about it, of course - take small breaks and stretch. I'm only saying this for "advanced" (lack of a better word) pianists. Obviously not beginners. You need to find a natural way to play/sit and maintain that.

As to the 0-5 hours point, nobody suggested that if you go from 0 to 5 in say, one day (and let's face it, when does that ever happen?) you wouldn't be uncomfortable.

P.S. Your teacher told you it was okay to hurt while playing octaves???????

I guess I missed that the first time I read things. If that IS the case, then get yourself a new teacher NOW.

I guess I misinterpreted your first point in this thread, but it did seem to me you (and dolce sfogato) were implying that no discomfort/pain/fatigue should EVER be there if you have a good technique. 0-5 hours was an extreme example, but I have often gone from 3 to 5+ hours, and noticed the next day that my arms were tired. Granted I don't have the most effortless technique possible...

It is a lot, even when I think about it. This is why being a professional musician is out of the question for me (among other reasons).

rov, I just watched a bit of your Mozart youtube, and I'm surprised your teacher hasn't addressed the fact that you are sitting very close to the keyboard, which is restricting your movement, and quite possibly contributing to your hand fatigue problems by causing tension.

Are you suggesting that you could play Schumann Toccata or Liszt HR#6 etc over and over and over again for FIVE HOURS without experiencing ANY physical fatigue WHATSOEVER?

That's about fifty repetitions of a 6/7 minute piece. Are you actually able to play such a piece fifty times in a row without getting physically tired?


What about just scales? Can you practice scales for 3 or 4 hours without any interruptions completely free of fatigue?

If what you say is true, then you have superhuman abilities.

Playing the piano for me isn't quite this easy. At the end of a hard day of practicing, I feel very tired, both mentally and physically. I think this is normal.

Anyone claiming the ability to play piano 5-8 hours per day without any fatigue whatsoever.... please post video evidence.

I will believe these dubious claims when I see a single-take video of Islamey being played 50 times (should take only about six hours) without evidence of fatigue (having to take breaks in between renditions, having to slow down, having to shake out the hands, etc)

I respect what you are getting at when you say this...indeed piano playing should look and sound effortless, if that is indeed what the artist is seeking to convey.....

but to say that piano playing causes no physical fatigue whatsoever is blatantly untrue.

I don't think I said anywhere that I could play the Schumann Toccata or the Liszt over and over for 5 hours. Two things - I don't play those, and that's not how I practice.

Sure, we all get tired when we practice, all I'm saying is it's not a good sign to have pain after (be it arms or back or wrists or whatever) - I know what it's like because I got injured that way. I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm very careful when I practice, and usually if something starts to hurt it's because I'm tense somewhere. So I stop and fix it. I also stretch and take breaks. I rarely have pain while practicing - I'm sure you'll admit that it's not a good sign if it happens.

P.S. do you really play through stuff 50 times when you practice?

One of my jobs is to play blues and boogie woogie piano (and Hammond B3 clone organ).

We play gigs that are 4 hours long, and sometimes longer, with a 15 minute break between sets.

I play a variety of things, from intense Albert Ammons-style Boogie-Woogie, to Jerry Lee Lewis Rock and Roll, to shuffle rhythms with both hands (triplets-based, ala Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed) as a rhythm player, to various other things not so demanding.

At the end of the night, the only pain/fatigue sensation I have is the tips of my fingers are a bit noticeable, similar to if you walk longer than you are used to, and the soles of your feet are not exactly sore, but you know you have used them. Thats from the stacatto of some of that style of playing.

I attribute that stamina ability to my Russian-trained piano teacher, who was an absolute Technique monster, and intensely stressed technique training and whole body relaxation in my lessons w/her.

This should easily translate to other form of music. Once, I played Rachmaninoff's C# minor Prelude for a half an hour, just to see if I could. There was no physical problem.

For all of the above, I do get mentally tired, and physically spent, but not ever with pain or damage.

I am not saying this to brag, but rather to illustrate that in some genres of music, such is the expected norm, and thus is doable.

But it all boils down to this:

Good technique is the answer. Bad technique is the killer.

Pogorelich

No she didn't say that it's okay to feel pain.. but she did say that my hands will get tired working on octaves because I haven't built enough muscle strength to do it well enough... I think she was talking about the burning sensation.. kind of like doing push-ups.

I only studied with her briefly, but she did manage to play the Rachmaninoff 2nd piano concerto well and practice 10hr a day for couple of months to do it.

I think every teacher I worked with mentioned "muscle(finger) strength" one way or the other, and talked about how the buckling of the first joint on the fingers as the sings that my fingers/hands are "weak", and how i needed to build that strength over time.

Yeah, I totally agree that you need to build up stamina for that kind of stuff. Just as long as it's not painful..

"I only studied with her briefly, but she did manage to play the Rachmaninoff 2nd piano concerto well and practice 10hr a day for couple of months to do it." - boy do I know what that's like.. except I never did the 10 hours thing

how far from the piano should I sit?

I don't know, but I think it should be so natural that you'd be able to stand up as you're playing without having to move your feet. Also not too close because some weight needs to be transferred from the back, and also not too far into the bench so that the weight doesn't go into the bench.

But that's just what I do

I think all we can say is: TRY A LITTLE FURTHER.

And I think in situations like this, it's important to ask:

Why do you sit so close?

Often there's a reason why someone does something strange like this, and it can't be effectively changed unless the reason is understood. Sitting that way is (by any usual standard) unnatural and counterproductive -- so I have to believe that there's a particular reason that has made him do it anyway -- and then it's something important to take into account in whatever advice one gives.

Of course, often there's no good answer that comes out of it, but it's worth trying.

...of course not. The thread seemed to need a devil's advocate, so I stepped in.

Why is this thread titled 'Does your hands also get tired?'?

It doesn't make any sense.

I'm sure Angelina's point was not that there is NEVER physical fatigue associated with practice, but why would anyone practice in the above prescribed manner?

My hands never be gettin tired yo.

ewiess: if someone's hands got tired playing new age, I'd say they're playing a different genre. When well played I find it attractive, but it's the least physically stressful style I could imagine.
Except, of course, repeated performances of Cage's 4:33

For those who don't know the reference to Cage's 4:33, look here:
http://interglacial.com/~sburke/stuff/cage_433.html