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#1514663 - 09/13/10 11:51 PM Please help in deciding whether to get a stage piano or not!  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
mikeynyuk Offline
Junior Member
mikeynyuk  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spai...
Hi everyone,

I am new to these forums, but have been reading here extensively recently. I am a jazz/pop keyboardist who has decided that he wants to go through the classical system to "round out my game" I play 6 nights a week on semi weighted keyboards and presently don't have anything to practice at at home. I grew up playing a pretty lovely baby grand piano, and have played many Steinways and Yamahas in various concert halls. Always preferred the bright Yammy sound...but I digress.

I have saved a couple of grand up to purchase my new instrument for practicing classical music, and also to use as a controller in my home studio. 90% of the time I plan to be practicing however, the studio thing is just a hobby right now.

My dilemma is that I want to buy an action that I like, but don't necessarily need the other features, sounds, speakers, furniture.

I live on an Island, so its hard to try out anything now, but before I lived here I played and owned many keyboards.
These are the boards I've played, drum roll crazy yawn

Yamaha CP33 (I really liked the action)

Yamaha P250 (I really liked the whole experience with speakers and action, more on this later)

Roland Fp7, (I thought it sounded good, but I felt the action was to "tall" and a tad heavy for me.)

Roland Fp4. (I think I liked it well enough, but remember getting a better feel off the CP33.)

Owned Roland RD300sx, (great board for gigging, but action a bit weak and mushy, ditto 300gx)

Roland RD700sx, (I really dislike this board, both sounds and feel...however, I appreciate it has a good, solid action, it just felt too tall for me again like the FP7.)

Kurzweil K2600x (action a little light, but very good, however, the one I tried had a broken key so it raises questions over keybed build quality, it was loose side to side also)



I own a yamaha KX88, I really like the feel. Very pianoyyy...unfortunately its in Canada, 10,000kms away and in a lock up I have the only key to!

Nord stage, dug the keyboard action, but it didn't feel as quality as the KX88, perhaps a little light and shallow. Really loved the piano sound in stereo through my monitors.

So, recently Ive been thinking the CP300, I like the idea of the speakers, although they are not strictly necessary as I own a pair of studio monitors. I also LOVE the fact that its a handy table for coffee, scores, lamps, laptops, synths etc.

however...I don't want to spend the 2 Gs if I don't have to.

My question at last!!

Basically, is there a MIDI controller out that that is, Table like(like the CP300) and would have an action close to or the same as ...err..a cp300.... I'm just scared that i will hate a studiologic/fatar thing, Ive never tried one. can anyone please chime in as Ive spent weeks deliberating, my teachers is waiting to begin lessons with me and I need to start practicing!

I am setting myself a huge challenge to learn classical piano, so GAS is strong right now to "compensate for the challenge"...or to "inspire" me


Should i pull the trigger on the CP300...or get a Midi controller...or a PC3x...never played kawai...but I want the tabletop...aghhh...so confused...Please give me suggestions, workarounds, I'm open to all possibilities and your help would be great.

and thanks for reading such a long and probably boring first post,

yours sincerely newbie,

Mike



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#1514672 - 09/14/10 12:10 AM Re: Please help in deciding whether to get a stage piano or not! [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dr Popper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted by mikeynyuk
Hi everyone,



Basically, is there a MIDI controller out that that is, Table like(like the CP300) and would have an action close to or the same as ...err..a cp300.... I'm just scared that i will hate a studiologic/fatar thing, Ive never tried one. can anyone please chime in as Ive spent weeks deliberating, my teachers is waiting to begin lessons with me and I need to start practicing!






Yeah you own it already the KX88 ....


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
#1514674 - 09/14/10 12:21 AM Re: Please help in deciding whether to get a stage piano or not! [Re: Dr Popper]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
mikeynyuk Offline
Junior Member
mikeynyuk  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spai...
I know, oh I know, the Irony...

I didn't mention in the original post, I cannot try out any of these keyboards on the Island..i would have to order one in sight unseen and live with it.

hmm...a CP33...cheaper, no speakers, not a table...


any love for the Nord Piano... I actually wouldn't use vsti's if I had that for piano..I love nord sounds..but no hands on experience.

Kawais??


buy the cp300?


#1514679 - 09/14/10 12:45 AM Re: Please help in deciding whether to get a stage piano or not! [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,841
ChrisA Offline
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ChrisA  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,841
Redondo Beach, California
Sounds to me that you want a Yamaha for its key action. The closest thing Yamaha makes to your KX88 is the CP33. They don't make a pure controller with no sound because I figure the sound costs like $20 to add so why make a controller? The CP300 is like a CP33 with speakers but no way are those speakers, nice as they are worth $1,000.

A Yamaha P155 has slighty better samples than a CP33/300 and smallish built-in speakers and some very small amount of table space. It is a practice piano more than a stage piano. It lacks some control knobs a performer might want and hides them under function keys and a menu. OK for home use. But for you needs it may be a better fit than a CP33.

Roland and Yamahas keys are so different that if you like one it is not surprising that you don't like the other. But Kawai is closer to Yamaha, I think, than to Roland. Have you tried any Kawai DPs? With $2k budget you might be able to get a CN23, but I don't know Kawai street prces. I own and P155 but some times get to play an older CN and they keys are good, slightly lighter then the P155.

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#1514845 - 09/14/10 10:48 AM Re: Please help in deciding whether to get a stage piano or not! [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
mikeynyuk Offline
Junior Member
mikeynyuk  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spai...
thanks for your reply! Indeed, I figure its alot to pay for speakers, but Ive always thought the cp300 had a certain mojo, perhaps because of its bulk.

In a development, I have just encountered a used Yamaha Clp 150 close to where I live. I believe it has the GHE keybed, the same as the CP300. I understand its an older clavinova, but it certainly has the table/furniture effect. Can anyone chime in who has owned one of these beasts, would it be a good alternative? I can get it for under 1000...and its table like. Just wondering if the sound is comparable to the CP series?

thanks again

Mike


#1515021 - 09/14/10 03:02 PM Re: Please help in deciding whether to get a stage piano or not! [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member
FogVilleLad  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
The tone of the newer DP's should be better, but if you're looking to round out your technique, home-style pianos - a.k.a. consoles - such as that CLP150 have pedals built into their cabinets. That'll let you use sostenuto and the soft - a.k.a. una corda - samples for variety of tone.

The 150's sustain pedal has "half pedaling" capability. That should let you control the length of the sustain. I don't know how well that's implemented in the 150's, but it's definitely worth auditioning.

When audtioning a used DP, it can be helpful to check each key with the piano turned off. Check for keys which rebound slowly or which have excessive side-to-side wiggle.

Ultimately the best tone will be obtained from a software piano, which would be installed on your computer. For now just getting a DP which would let you work on your technique would, IMO, be good enough.




#1516376 - 09/16/10 06:39 AM Re: Please help in deciding whether to get a stage piano or not! [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
mikeynyuk Offline
Junior Member
mikeynyuk  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spai...
Thanks for your replies,
I'm going to try out the CLp 150 today. I managed to play a clp 320 in a music shop also, so I have a point of reference action wise.

looking forward to getting practicing!

Mike

#1520202 - 09/21/10 11:41 PM clavinova related hand pain [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
mikeynyuk Offline
Junior Member
mikeynyuk  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spai...
Hey all,

Well, I Bought the CLP 150, and I'm very happy with it. It doesnt feel like a piano, but, its pretty darn good!

However, I have been practicing scales and exercises for a few days. Two nights ago I returned to work on my semi weighted boards...they felt like toys...after an hour of playing them, hand cramp....ouch...seriously couldn't use my right hand for periods of the gig...scary.

SO I'm worried. At this point I must mention that I took it slow practicing though I did do 5 hours a day, I never strained, and always rested when my hands got tired. I felt no cramp, pain or anything bad during or after practice. Could the switch from a weighted action to a non weighted action cause problems like this?

Im now staring at my clavinova, afraid to practice it because my night job is what pays the bills...


suggestions wise ones?

aghh

Mike

#1520315 - 09/22/10 05:58 AM Re: clavinova related hand pain [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,022
spanishbuddha Offline
3000 Post Club Member
spanishbuddha  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,022
UK
Hmmm....if you practised 5 hours a day, for two days, doing scales and exercises on the CLP150, a hammer action keyboard that you're not used to, I think you overdid it.

Leave it for a week, then start again, and build up slowly.

#1520580 - 09/22/10 02:36 PM Re: clavinova related hand pain [Re: spanishbuddha]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member
FogVilleLad  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Leave it for a week, then start again, and build up slowly.
+1

Because you'll be recovering from an injury which could threaten your livelihood, I'd suggest twenty minutes tops, at first. If you're patient, the problem should be resolved in a month.




#1520607 - 09/22/10 03:07 PM Re: clavinova related hand pain [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 304
elecmuse3 Offline
Full Member
elecmuse3  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 304
Cincinnati
Sorry about the almost-injury. At least, you're enthusiastic! grin
I know exactly what you mean by the "toy" feel of semi-weighted after lots of time on real "weighted". What helps me is that I gig with both; weighted on the bottom at the optimum angle, and semi weighted for strings, organ, etc. These I play with the type of touch organists use, lots of finger pedaling among other things. The deliberately different approaches help me keep the needs of each separated.


Terry@cincyrockers.com
www.theplayerpianoshop.com
#1520800 - 09/22/10 10:07 PM Re: clavinova related hand pain [Re: mikeynyuk]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
mikeynyuk Offline
Junior Member
mikeynyuk  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9
Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spai...
Thanks for the replies and the advice guys. It was nice to get a bit of support.

I phoned my mum who is a piano teacher and she said the same thing, take a week off and build up the time slowly. I will give it another few days and begin a little more slowly.

Terry, I was thinking about replacing my bottom keyboard, a Fantom Fa76 with something weighted. I like how you say you approach the two keyboards differently mentally. I don't have any organists technique, nor much piano either it would seem, but I think I dig where your coming from. I also play two tiers, the top angled so that I have forearm, wrist alignment. I find my back gets tired all the same as we play a three hour gig every night with no break. www.roguetraderstenerife.com . You can see pics on there of my setup, feel free to offer any suggestions,

thanks again for the support,

Mike


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