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#1512797 - 09/10/10 11:40 AM Del Fandrich designs for Weber / Young Chang  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
James Carney Offline
Full Member
James Carney  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
new york city
I'm one of the contributors to the article on new short grand pianos (all
under 5 feet!) that appears in the Fall 2010 PianoBuyer; two of the six
grands I reviewed were designed by Del Fandrich.

If any of you get the chance to check out the Young Chang Y150 and/or the
Weber W150 I believe you'll find them to be very impressive - and the differences between both really interesting - especially if you can do a "same store" comparison like I was able to do.

Del has proven that it is possible to design a very musical compact grand
piano with a nice action, and he has also done a masterful job of designing a
bass/tenor break that is barely noticeable. I'm hoping he might chime in
here to answer a few additional questions.

It is my understanding that the plates and bridges are the same for both
the Y150 and the W150, but the plain wire string tensions (diameters) are
slightly different between the two, and the hammers provided for each are
also quite different.

Del, can you tell us a little more about the string scaling differences? How much larger is the plain wire on the Young Chang at the lowest tenor note, which I think is G35? And is there any point on these pianos where the string diameters become the same for both models? Also, please tell us about the hammer selection for each piano, the action design, the soundboard, and anything else you'd like to share that is relevant to the success of these new scale designs.


Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/
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#1513311 - 09/11/10 10:54 AM Re: Del Fandrich designs for Weber / Young Chang [Re: James Carney]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,521
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Del  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,521
Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by James Carney
It is my understanding that the plates and bridges are the same for both the Y150 and the W150, but the plain wire string tensions (diameters) are slightly different between the two, and the hammers provided for each are also quite different.

Del, can you tell us a little more about the string scaling differences? How much larger is the plain wire on the Young Chang at the lowest tenor note, which I think is G35? And is there any point on these pianos where the string diameters become the same for both models? Also, please tell us about the hammer selection for each piano, the action design, the soundboard, and anything else you'd like to share that is relevant to the success of these new scale designs.


The tensions through the tenor section of the Weber 150 are in the 67.0 to 70.0 kgf (150 to 155 lbf) range. For the YC 150 they are in the 73.0 to 75.0 kgf (160 to 165 lbf) range.

The wire diameters used through the tenor section of the Weber are one full size smaller than those used in the YC. That is, at note #35 the wire diameters are 1.025 mm and 1.075 mm, respectively. Both scales start with 0.775 mm wire at C-88. The wire diameters in the YC scale just get larger faster.

Assuming the hammers are pressed as designed, they both should use the felt specification. The only difference should be in the hammer molding length and the final strike thickness (the distance between the tip of the underfelt and the tip of the finished hammer). In other words, the hammer felt in the YC hammer should be somewhat more compressed though the overall length of the hammer (including both felt and molding) will be the same. The hammer shape should also be the same.

I have not been back to the factory since a very short visit following the Frankfurt Music Messe. I have given the company a fairly broad mix of materials and design elements from which to choose. I do not know as yet just what the final product mix will be for any of these pianos.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
#1513761 - 09/12/10 09:42 AM Re: Del Fandrich designs for Weber / Young Chang [Re: Del]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
James Carney Offline
Full Member
James Carney  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
new york city
Thanks Del. Amazing how different the tonal characteristics of the pianos are with a slightly smaller (or larger) diameter of music wire.


Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/
#1513785 - 09/12/10 11:11 AM Re: Del Fandrich designs for Weber / Young Chang [Re: James Carney]  
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,521
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Del  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,521
Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted by James Carney
Thanks Del. Amazing how different the tonal characteristics of the pianos are with a slightly smaller (or larger) diameter of music wire.

And hammers.

You can put the softer hammers on the higher-tensioned scale but the acoustical results won't be quite the same. And vice versa, of course.

Changing the scaling by itself and/or changing the hammers by themselves does not create the same overall effect.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
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#1775988 - 10/24/11 12:06 AM Re: Del Fandrich designs for Weber / Young Chang [Re: James Carney]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,705
gnuboi Offline
2000 Post Club Member
gnuboi  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,705
USA
So it would seem that the new designs are making their way into the market. I checked out the new W150. Amazing little grand. There was an older and larger Young Chang grand nearby but the new W150 had clearer tone throughout! Also tried some of the re-designed uprights. Tone is excellent even on the shortest studio W114, it's just not as loud (thank goodness) as its bigger siblings the W121 and W131. In all of these the unwanted tenor break was not really noticeable. Now that's progress!

Perhaps it was the room and placement acoustics, but that baby grand sounded really nice compared to the taller W121 and W131 uprights.

In comparison, Pearl River and Ritmuller were still much darker. The new Webers offer a very even and uncomplicated middle-of-the-road tone that most people can relate to.

The action is still the same Young Chang design but the pianos all felt very responsive and had a nice firmness.

Oops I should link this from the primary forum where the mere mortals like myself and other shoppers are...

Last edited by gnuboi; 10/24/11 12:07 AM.
#1776191 - 10/24/11 11:10 AM Re: Del Fandrich designs for Weber / Young Chang [Re: James Carney]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 332
pianolive Offline
Full Member
pianolive  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 332
Europe
In the late 1980 a great computerprogram was made for calculating scales in production but also to uptimize old scales. A part of it was to decrease the string mass.
The programmer was a man in Germany, Peter Tholey, and many techs have got great results in uptinizing scales. He wrote a book on the theory behind.


#1778539 - 10/28/11 01:53 AM Re: Del Fandrich designs for Weber / Young Chang [Re: James Carney]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 95
EltonRach Offline
Full Member
EltonRach  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 95
Singapore
I am on my way back from Korea. Not familiar with the Young Chang model names - but there was a Young Chang grand piano at the lobby lounge of the Shilla hotel - loved the sound of the second octave down from middle C. It was a very nice full bodied sound that seemed to fill the entire soundboard.

That hotel was great for sampling grand pianos. They had a Pramberger in the convention hall, a Yamaha at a restaurant, and a Young Chang at the lobby bar !

In the middle of the night when the hotel is quiet, they don't mind "mad keen piano enthusiasts" like us "sampling" their pianos. The pianos are never locked.

Last edited by EltonRach; 10/28/11 01:53 AM.

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