Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
Learning how to improvise is confusing for most. The sheer number of choices becomes a burden. Should I play this note? What chord next? Where do I go from here? All valid questions newbies (and oldbies) at improvisation sometimes ask themselves.
The number one reason people have problems creating in the moment is that they won't let up on themselves and just play.
Fortunately, there is a solution. It's really a two-pronged solution because once we do learn how to ease up and just play, we are left with another problem and that is, what game are we playing?
The game of improvisation is a game like any other. We have a few rules, some guidelines, and then the game is played. You see, we must have some kind of structure to play the game of improvisation. Why? Because without it there would be way too many choices and this would prevent most people from even beginning.
Some think working within a set of limitations is uncreative. I thought so too once until I realized that until I learned how to do this by following the examples of others, I couldn't be free to create my own set of limitations.
Schoenberg would certainly say that working within limitations is still creative - and that the inverse is simply daunting. What's more, you can't break the rules until you understand them.
I would intermittently mess around during practice sessions (which isn't and wasn't the best thing) but after a while, I got a feeling of what sounded good after this, so that now I can decently impovise classically. This wasn't Jazz improv because I didn't hear much jazz as I grew up - a lot more classical.
Schoenberg would certainly say that working within limitations is still creative - and that the inverse is simply daunting. What's more, you can't break the rules until you understand them.
I remember reading his book on composition. Pretty cool. And he came up with his own 'rules' for composing serial music. I should probably listen to some of his stuff soon.
If you have good hearing, you can just sing the melodies and the chords in your head, then you can translate to the keyboard. People who do not have good hearing will have hard time improvising.
If you have good hearing, you can just sing the melodies and the chords in your head, then you can translate to the keyboard. People who do not have good hearing will have hard time improvising.
This approach seems one step removed from the first-hand experience of improvisation. The point I always stress to my students is not to think but to feel and play using chords and melody.
Thinking is good. Feeling is better. Why? Because the music that comes out of you is a direct experience with intuition and the right side of the brain.
That's why improvising with limits works so well for newbies. They get to play piano without thinking about which chord, what notes, etc.
Thinking is good. Feeling is better. Why? Because the music that comes out of you is a direct experience with intuition and the right side of the brain.
That's why improvising with limits works so well for newbies. They get to play piano without thinking about which chord, what notes, etc.
If one stops thinking, then how does one continue to observe these "limits"?
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
Thinking is good. Feeling is better. Why? Because the music that comes out of you is a direct experience with intuition and the right side of the brain.
That's why improvising with limits works so well for newbies. They get to play piano without thinking about which chord, what notes, etc.
If one stops thinking, then how does one continue to observe these "limits"?
Automatically, like brushing your teeth. I start students off with simple materials. A black key pentatonic improvisation is a good example of this. For instance, in the first lesson I offer students I set up a scenario where they play just 2 chords and can play any note from the minor pentatonic scale. With these 'limits' in place, students can forget about the technical aspects and focus in on self expression.
Thinking is good. Feeling is better. Why? Because the music that comes out of you is a direct experience with intuition and the right side of the brain.
That's why improvising with limits works so well for newbies. They get to play piano without thinking about which chord, what notes, etc.
If one stops thinking, then how does one continue to observe these "limits"?
Automatically, like brushing your teeth. I start students off with simple materials. A black key pentatonic improvisation is a good example of this. For instance, in the first lesson I offer students I set up a scenario where they play just 2 chords and can play any note from the minor pentatonic scale. With these 'limits' in place, students can forget about the technical aspects and focus in on self expression.
But, then, said student must think about that pentatonic scale. There can be no such thing as thoughtless playing (though I've heard many pianists whom I would say were thoughtless).
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
I love improvising!! but i tend to get carried away and end up smashing loads of octave-scales! and at times i think i'm the only one it sounds good to. much like Sorabji's music
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.
But, then, said student must think about that pentatonic scale. There can be no such thing as thoughtless playing (though I've heard many pianists whom I would say were thoughtless).
Not if they adapt an attiude of exploration. Then there's no need to think. It's like fingerpainting. You have some colors in front of you and the idea is to dive in and have fun. That's how piano improvisation can be. When you're in the moment and improvsing on the piano, there's no time to think. There are choices yes, but they too can come automatically as play becomes the primary focus.
But, then, said student must think about that pentatonic scale. There can be no such thing as thoughtless playing (though I've heard many pianists whom I would say were thoughtless).
Not if they adapt an attiude of exploration. Then there's no need to think. It's like fingerpainting. You have some colors in front of you and the idea is to dive in and have fun. That's how piano improvisation can be. When you're in the moment and improvsing on the piano, there's no time to think. There are choices yes, but they too can come automatically as play becomes the primary focus.
I understand what you're trying to say, but any time there's a choice to be made thought is required. If you're to place limits (your pentatonic scale) on your improvisation, then at some point thought WILL occur, or more than likely, you'll fall outside of those limitations.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
eweiss, I've heard your improvs, most are quite basic that alternate between 2-3 chords. It floats along with no real tension or release, good for background stuff like you seem to do but not engaging for a listener.
You don't have any real melodies or motifs and honestly there isn't much feeling.
If you want the real deal better learn how to play jazz or some good rock and roll.
I generally agree with eweiss here. When I improvise, I'm completely in the moment, relying mostly on the feel of the notes beneath my fingers, and intellectual concerns occupy a small percent of my consciousness-- 5% or less.
Maybe we disagree on what "thought" is in this context, but I consider my improvising to be relatively "thoughtless" (although, I hope, still musical).
I recently posted a few samples to the Members' Recordings section; here is one of them.
p.s. Wizard, shame on you for insulting a fellow forum member's work. It only reflects badly on you, imo.
p.s. Wizard, shame on you for insulting a fellow forum member's work. It only reflects badly on you, imo.
Insulting, nah. I'm just saying what I think of the music. I mean I teach high school students who can improvise better than that.
Everyone here is at different levels and goals. If that type of music is what you like, hey, keep playing. It doesn't engage or challenge me for the reasons I stated.
p.s. Wizard, shame on you for insulting a fellow forum member's work. It only reflects badly on you, imo.
Beet, your improvs are quite interesting. Keep it up.
Regarding the Wiz, I don't think he was insulting Ed, but rather offered his critique.
"Insulting" would be to sling some mud at Ed, (like some political types do, for example), and attack Ed as a person, and say that he is stupid, brain dead, a moron, a musical criminal, etc. (None of which is true for Ed, I am sure).
Instead, what the Wiz did was examine Ed's music, and critique it relative to his personal taste, relative to other forms of popular music.
From what I understand, Ed's music is primarily New Age, which is soothing and calm, and thus by definition lacks extreme tension and release, etc.
