Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
109 registered members (AlanB, alfredo capurso, agraffe, accordeur, 36251, 7uturu, 29 invisible), 1,962 guests, and 15 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1508478 - 09/03/10 01:41 PM Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 204
dcb Offline
Full Member
dcb  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 204
Does anyone have any experience with the key actions on both the Yamaha Avantgrand and the Kawai CA93? Can you tell me how the actions compare? I've played the Avantgrand and it is really an incredible piano. Unfortunately, it is out of my budget. The Kawai CA93 is half the price and I'm wondering if it can compare to the Yamaha. I don't live near a Kawai dealer so it is hard for me to try it out.

I play with headphones most of the time, so the action is more important to me than the speaker setup.

Thanks for your opinions.

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#1508510 - 09/03/10 02:46 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,015
Dave Horne Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Dave Horne  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,015
Vught, The Netherlands
The Yamaha AvantGrand (N2 \ N3) uses a very slightly modified (neoprene hammers instead of wool) as their C3 grand (so I've been told).

The Kawai, while I'm sure a great piano, does not use a real grand piano action; it uses some kind of a 'digital piano action'.

If money is an issue, you could look at the AvantGrand N2, the version that looks like an upright piano. The N2 uses the same exact action as the N3, the grand version of the AvantGrand piano.

A Yamaha GranTouch, no longer made but available second hand, is also an option as it also uses a real grand piano action.

If a real piano action is what you're after, there are only a handful of models from which to choose.



website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#1508537 - 09/03/10 03:37 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 761
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member
TADutchman  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 761
Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Hi dcb,
In this thread there's someone named 'PianoInMd' who actually directly compared the CA93 and AvantGrand action, before making a buying decision: cool thumb
http://www.mypianofriends.com/i-am-...-a-kawai-ca-93.-anyone-he...-196284.html

May I ask: where do you live, as you say a Kawai dealer is far away?


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
#1508550 - 09/03/10 03:55 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,015
Dave Horne Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Dave Horne  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,015
Vught, The Netherlands
TADutchman, I would be very curious to learn just how much playing on acoustic pianos PianoInMd has under his belt. smile




website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1508639 - 09/03/10 06:33 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,057
EssBrace Offline
3000 Post Club Member
EssBrace  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,057
Suffolk, United Kingdom
Avant Grand (or even the old GranTouch) is completely different to all other DPs in terms of action...beyond comparison really. There can be no doubt the Kawai is good but not comparable to the Specialised Grand Piano Action in the Yamaha products mentioned.

#1508789 - 09/04/10 12:33 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 792
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
Volusiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 792
I think a better approach is to try out the CA-93 and see if its action is good enough for you for the money, instead of trying to compare it to the AvantGrand's action, or really to the acoustic grand action for that matter, because the AvantGrand's action IS the acoustic grand action after all.

I think it really all depends on how much exposure you've had on an acoustic grand action so far. If not much, you probably won't know any better how much different they are, unless you've played with both a lot. At least not enough to be willing to pay the price difference. But if you've played on an acoustic grand action a lot already, you may notice a big difference right away and would never go back to any digital action again at any cost saving.

So it really all depends on how serious you are in your musical endeavor. If you have to ask, then you probably already made up your mind how much you're willing to pay, and you're just looking for justification here to make you feel better about deciding to go with the lower cost route. Which is perfectly okay, too. So you really need to seek out a CA-93 to try it out and decide for yourself. People's opinions here don't matter because this kind of thing is very subjective. Only your opinion matters.

#1508814 - 09/04/10 01:52 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
As explained, the Avantgrand action is in a class of its own and is not comparable to a digital piano action, but is better compared to an acoustic piano with silent installation such as the excellent Yamaha Silent Hybrid Pianos which are available both in upright and grand versions.

The problem with going with an Avantgrand N2 instead of an Avantgrand N3 is that the experience for the player is not nearly as satisfying due to the cabinet construction and speaker placement. Listeners in another room won't be able to tell if you are playing an N2 or a real Yamaha grand, but you as the player will not have the same envelopment in sound or satisfactory illusion. In fact, for many, the Kawai CA93 would likely be more satisfying for the player to play.

So that leaves the Avantgrand N3 which is out of reach for most mortals and which would allow you, for the same budget, to buy a truly excellent, high performance acoustic piano such as the Yamaha YUS5 that also has a factory-built, optical sensor based digital piano built into the very same acoustic keyboard with a Yamaha Silent system.

http://music.yamaha.com/products/main.html?productId=109990&hierarchy_id=16322_16277

#1508918 - 09/04/10 11:45 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 792
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
Volusiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 792
I would argue that the N2 has a far more superior sound system than the CA93. Even though the N2 sound system is not as good as the N3, it is still a very superior sound system, and it can hold its own against any other digital pianos beside the N3.

Any N2 owners care to comment?

And the point of comparing sounds is moot because the OP said he'll be using headphones most of the time anyway. So the main point of this post is about keyboard action.

The YUS5 retails for $19.7K and its SMP is $16.8K according to the Piano Buyer Guide book, while the N3 retails for $20K and its SMP is $15.7K. So I would rather buy an N3 over a YUS5 because it's cheaper than the YUS5, has a real grand action while the YUS5 has only an upright action, and requires no tuning, no maintenance while the YUS5 still has all the baggages that come with being an acoustic.


#1508922 - 09/04/10 11:53 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Melodialworks Music  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Canada
I agree, the action in the N2 / N3 is superb. You really can't compare it to even a high-end upright acoustic.

Interesting that when I compared the N3 to the C3, I preferred the N3. The "baggage" that comes with an acoustic is not to be underestimated.

#1509815 - 09/06/10 12:42 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: Volusiano]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 34
coz Offline
Full Member
coz  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 34
United States
I agree with you. I have the N2 and love it. The N3 does have better sound but I didn't have room for it. If you try the N2 make sure the top is open for its best sound. The action is awesome! I think the N2 is the best value here at $5k less than the N3.

#1525883 - 09/30/10 07:56 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: coz]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14
FishTako Offline
Junior Member
FishTako  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14
California, USA
I thought I'd chime in here as I'm also in the market for a digital practice piano. The 3 top models I'm considering are the Kawai CA93, the Roland HP 307 and Yamaha AvantGrand N-2 (unlikely I'll get this as it is easily double the price of the other two digitals).

I haven't played on the N-2 but it is supposed to be the same as the N-3 minus the action of the grand pedals. I've spent about 2.5 hours on the N-3 yesterday and I have to say that no other DP comes even close to the action on the N-3. I compared it to the YU-5 Silent Piano (an upright) and there really is no contest. I grew up playing classical piano on my parent's Schimmel Grand and my piano teacher's 2 Yamaha Grands so the N-3 just felt absolutely brilliant.

That being said, at less than half the price of the N-2, the CA-93 has, IMO the next best digital action out there. Over the last week or so, I've spent about 5 hours going back and forth between a CA-93 and CA-63. Both seem to have a slightly more responsive touch than the HP 307 and I was able to get a very nice dynamic range from it. Hope this helps.

If you mainly play with headphones, I'd recommend the CA-63 over the CA-93 as you won't need the soundboard. I didn't particularly care one way or another for the let-off.

Last edited by FishTako; 09/30/10 07:58 PM.
#1576136 - 12/13/10 09:00 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: dcb]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 79
B. Michels Offline
Full Member
B. Michels  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 79
Has someone tested the Kawai MP10 which is supposed to have a key action similar to the CA-93 ?

#1576154 - 12/13/10 09:20 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand action vs. Kawai CA-93 RM3 action [Re: B. Michels]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,073
Kawai James Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,073
Hamamatsu, Japan
B.Michels, the CA93 and MP10 both use exactly the same keyboard action: RM3 Grand with Ivory Touch key surfaces and let-off simulation.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Changing Piano Teachers
by Tim1028. 06/26/17 07:31 PM
what does he play in theLH here?
by harbop. 06/26/17 06:08 PM
Philip Glass ├ętude 6 question
by Peyton. 06/26/17 05:39 PM
Yamaha used for Music College
by Pianobuyer2017. 06/26/17 05:21 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,474
Posts2,639,304
Members88,198
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0