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Some of his preludes and fugues for piano are fantastic, and seem to resemble Shostakovich's later Preludes and Fugues, more than Bach's. Any resemblance would be those of Shostakovich after Mendelssohn.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
♪ ≠$
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Forgot to mention the Weber 2nd sonata in A-flat, op.49, beats Felix all the way, and should be played more, even by us! I did the above post even before seeing that. I wouldn't want to say that it "beats the Mendelssohn all the way" (and I'm not sure you meant it 100% seriously!), but.....I think we can say it's more consistent in its quality, and probably that it's a more mature work. I would certainly be more likely to work on it and consider programming it.
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Some of his preludes and fugues for piano are fantastic, and seem to resemble Shostakovich's later Preludes and Fugues, more than Bach's. Any resemblance would be those of Shostakovich after Mendelssohn. I think he meant that, but he accidentally worded it the other way.
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Some of his preludes and fugues for piano are fantastic, and seem to resemble Shostakovich's later Preludes and Fugues, more than Bach's. Any resemblance would be those of Shostakovich after Mendelssohn. LOL! Noooooooo, really? SHOCK! IF I was so hung-up over obscure meanings of the word "resemble" as you clearly are, I would feel it would be my pedantic, anal-retentive duty to inform you that you neglected to pluralize your usage of that same word in your post. OH THE HORROR! Uh oh - you had better edit "those" to singular! I guess I'll just refrain from pretending other people are ignorant about music in a music forum because they do not pretend they are in an English-101 Forum. I'll also refrain from missing the forest for the tree. Carry on - you're doing the above JUST fine...
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Some of his preludes and fugues for piano are fantastic, and seem to resemble Shostakovich's later Preludes and Fugues, more than Bach's. Any resemblance would be those of Shostakovich after Mendelssohn. I think he meant that, but he accidentally worded it the other way. Yes, thank you Orange Soda King. I worded it that way because I played the Shostakovich before the Mendelssohn, and first impressions are hard to shake - even if we do know which came first chronologically.
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Some of his preludes and fugues for piano are fantastic, and seem to resemble Shostakovich's later Preludes and Fugues, more than Bach's. Any resemblance would be those of Shostakovich after Mendelssohn. LOL! Noooooooo, really? SHOCK! IF I was so hung-up over obscure meanings of the word "resemble" as you clearly are, I would feel it would be my pedantic, anal-retentive duty to inform you that you neglected to pluralize your usage of that same word in your post. OH THE HORROR! Uh oh - you had better edit "those" to singular! I guess I'll just refrain from pretending other people are ignorant about music in a music forum because they do not pretend they are in an English-101 Forum. I'll also refrain from missing the forest for the tree. Carry on - you're doing the above JUST fine... Who is hung up about the meaning of the word resemble? My simple point was that Mendelssohn's work did not resemble that of Shosty, but rather the other way round. Tis all. Carry on.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
♪ ≠$
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Numerian -- GREAT write-up about the piece. It made me interested to listen to it more closely than I had before. We see easily how much you love the piece from what you say about it, yet your love of it doesn't keep you from mentioning weaknesses. Still, it seems to me that your love and regard for it are more than it 'deserves,' so I can't help wondering (and pardon the 'shrink-type question,' feel free to ignore it) .....I wonder if there's something about the nature of your acquaintance with the piece that makes it extra-special for you? I have quite a few pieces like that myself -- pieces that I somehow associate with some special person or some special occasion. Or, which just happened to be one of the first major works I heard or studied. Or something. For example, there's one such piece that I think coincidentally has some similarities to this one: Weber's A-flat sonata. My interest and regard for it go way beyond what it deserves, and I know exactly why -- but it doesn't stop me from feeling that way about the piece and sometimes waxing poetic about it. On the other hand, maybe I'm not appreciating this sonata enough yet. And don't get me wrong -- I do like it. And I thank you very much for that wonderful write-up! Hello Mark- I knew very little about Mendelssohn but took him on as a project for a local music club, where as part of my contribution I do lecture recitals on a composer of interest. You must start such a lecture with Moses Mendelssohn in the 18th century, a man who rose to great intellectual eminence in Europe - a Jewish philosopher who did an enormous amount to remove the medieval restrictions on where Jews could live, what trades they could practice, and what schools they could attend. He also provided intellectual ballast to German nationalism, which is ironic considering how the Mendelssohn name was treated in the 1930s. Moses had six children, all of them successful in a secular world that they would not have been able to enter 40 years earlier. Abraham founded a banking dynasty of Mendelssohn & Co. and he and his wife established a musical salon in Berlin that was the cultural center of the city. Fannie and Felix grew up this environment, and Felix was provided tutoring in the sciences by Alexander von Humboldt, in philosophy by Georg Hegel, and in literature by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, all of whom were family friends. Goethe, who knew Mozart as a child prodigy, insisted that Felix was a far greater musical talent, and Felix's interest in a career in music was carefully fostered by the family (Fannie unfortunately was not allowed such a career, being a woman, and despite her being equally talented). I performed several of the Songs Without Words for this recital, but became determined to learn them all. They appear simple at first, but are deceptively difficult and I began to appreciate Anton Rubinstein's complaint that they were the hardest music he performed. Also, I was raised as a Roman Catholic so all this information about the Mendelssohn family and Jewish culture was new to me, though I must say many of the Jews in the audience said afterward they knew very little about the Mendelssohn family either. The story ends in appalling tragedy. Shortly after Mendelssohn's sudden death in 1848, an anonymous pamphlet appeared in Europe titled "Judaism in Music", attacking Mendelssohn and Meyerbeer as being incapable of composing true passionate music because they were Jews, not real Germans. Eventually the author unmasked himself; it was Richard Wagner, a man Mendelssohn championed when it was unpopular to do so. Wagner continued excoriating the Jews as he became more successful, and his writings were many years later used as reference material by Hitler when he wrote "Mein Kampf". When the Nazis rose to power, they tore down Mendelssohn's statue in front of the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra hall, they forbade the publishing or playing of Mendelssohn's music, and they shut down the Mendelssohn & Co. bank. To this day, Mendelssohn's reputation has never fully recovered from these attacks. That would be my "psychological" reason for digging so deeply into his music and his life. This is one of the most appalling injustices meted out to a great composer, and because of it I find it takes extra effort these days to get people interested in Mendelssohn.
Fazioli 228.
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Great reply, Numerian. I figured it was something but of course had no idea it was anything so large. And I'm not sure why you say you know very little about him. Looks like you know a lot. Mendelssohn has gotten hit from opposite religious sides: some anti-Semites have shunned him because he was born Jewish, and some Jewish people have shunned him because he converted to Christianity. At my wedding, we didn't use the usual tunes (ironically also including Wagner) because we were going with chamber music all the way anyway, but the rabbi said that was good because he usually 'doesn't allow' the Mendelssohn at his weddings......and he made a point of saying it wasn't because of the conversion but because he doesn't like the piece of music. Yeah right.
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Well the reason for the double name 'Mendelssohn-Bartholdy' was because Felix wanted to stay true to his jewish name. Atleast thats what I learned about it.
Last edited by Victor25; 09/08/10 11:48 AM.
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9 Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)
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...and he made a point of saying it wasn't because of the conversion but because he doesn't like the piece of music. Yeah right. Yeah, looks dodgy to me. Call me nuts, but the Mendelssohn wedding march played full throttle on a large organ is an absolutely thrilling experience. For that matter, Liszt's arrangement is no slouch, particularly with assorted gildings by Busoni and Horowitz.
Jason
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Well the reason for the double name 'Mendelssohn-Bartholdy' was because Felix wanted to stay true to his jewish name. Atleast thats what I learned about it. As I understood it, all six of Moses Mendelssohn's children converted to Christianity. They participated fully in a broader movement among German Jews to assimilate into German society. Felix's mother, Leah Solomon Mendelssohn, was constantly pressured by her brother to abandon the Mendelssohn name and do what he did - take on a nice Christian name (in this case, Bartholdy). Leah and Abraham baptized all their children, and they changed the family name to Mendelssohn-Bartholdy. Felix used this as his formal surname, but most of the public stayed with plain Felix Mendelssohn, and Felix never wasted time trying to correct them.
Fazioli 228.
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....Call me nuts, but the Mendelssohn wedding march played full throttle on a large organ is an absolutely thrilling experience..... Call me nuts too!
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To Numerian: Off the subject, but since we're seeing you here.....
I hope you won't hesitate to be giving us updates on the doings of the winners of the Chicago amateur competition, whether it's things directly resulting from their prizes or otherwise -- if you feel like it!
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Numerian -- GREAT write-up about the piece. It made me interested to listen to it more closely than I had before. We see easily how much you love the piece from what you say about it, yet your love of it doesn't keep you from mentioning weaknesses. Still, it seems to me that your love and regard for it are more than it 'deserves,' so I can't help wondering (and pardon the 'shrink-type question,' feel free to ignore it) .....I wonder if there's something about the nature of your acquaintance with the piece that makes it extra-special for you? I have quite a few pieces like that myself -- pieces that I somehow associate with some special person or some special occasion. Or, which just happened to be one of the first major works I heard or studied. Or something. For example, there's one such piece that I think coincidentally has some similarities to this one: Weber's A-flat sonata. My interest and regard for it go way beyond what it deserves, and I know exactly why -- but it doesn't stop me from feeling that way about the piece and sometimes waxing poetic about it. On the other hand, maybe I'm not appreciating this sonata enough yet. And don't get me wrong -- I do like it. And I thank you very much for that wonderful write-up! Hello Mark- I knew very little about Mendelssohn but took him on as a project for a local music club, where as part of my contribution I do lecture recitals on a composer of interest. You must start such a lecture with Moses Mendelssohn in the 18th century, a man who rose to great intellectual eminence in Europe - a Jewish philosopher who did an enormous amount to remove the medieval restrictions on where Jews could live, what trades they could practice, and what schools they could attend. He also provided intellectual ballast to German nationalism, which is ironic considering how the Mendelssohn name was treated in the 1930s. Moses had six children, all of them successful in a secular world that they would not have been able to enter 40 years earlier. Abraham founded a banking dynasty of Mendelssohn & Co. and he and his wife established a musical salon in Berlin that was the cultural center of the city. Fannie and Felix grew up this environment, and Felix was provided tutoring in the sciences by Alexander von Humboldt, in philosophy by Georg Hegel, and in literature by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, all of whom were family friends. Goethe, who knew Mozart as a child prodigy, insisted that Felix was a far greater musical talent, and Felix's interest in a career in music was carefully fostered by the family (Fannie unfortunately was not allowed such a career, being a woman, and despite her being equally talented). I performed several of the Songs Without Words for this recital, but became determined to learn them all. They appear simple at first, but are deceptively difficult and I began to appreciate Anton Rubinstein's complaint that they were the hardest music he performed. Also, I was raised as a Roman Catholic so all this information about the Mendelssohn family and Jewish culture was new to me, though I must say many of the Jews in the audience said afterward they knew very little about the Mendelssohn family either. The story ends in appalling tragedy. Shortly after Mendelssohn's sudden death in 1848, an anonymous pamphlet appeared in Europe titled "Judaism in Music", attacking Mendelssohn and Meyerbeer as being incapable of composing true passionate music because they were Jews, not real Germans. Eventually the author unmasked himself; it was Richard Wagner, a man Mendelssohn championed when it was unpopular to do so. Wagner continued excoriating the Jews as he became more successful, and his writings were many years later used as reference material by Hitler when he wrote "Mein Kampf". When the Nazis rose to power, they tore down Mendelssohn's statue in front of the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra hall, they forbade the publishing or playing of Mendelssohn's music, and they shut down the Mendelssohn & Co. bank. To this day, Mendelssohn's reputation has never fully recovered from these attacks. That would be my "psychological" reason for digging so deeply into his music and his life. This is one of the most appalling injustices meted out to a great composer, and because of it I find it takes extra effort these days to get people interested in Mendelssohn. I don't think his reputation suffered from those unheard-of stupidities, HM Queen Vicky did a lot to raise an undestructable virtual statue for him overthere in the UK, but one couldn't say he is underplayed on the continent and elsewere because of what some very unmentionable criminals thought they could do to this artist, and so many others!, in Germany he's one of the heroes, and rightly so! Still remember the fuss about Wagner being played under Barenboim in Israel....
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
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To Numerian: Off the subject, but since we're seeing you here.....
I hope you won't hesitate to be giving us updates on the doings of the winners of the Chicago amateur competition, whether it's things directly resulting from their prizes or otherwise -- if you feel like it! Mark- We are thinking of hosting a Chicago Amateur Piano Festival next spring, similar to what some other competitions do in their off years. This would be without the competition part, perhaps giving each performer 10 or 15 minutes of performance time, and maybe 30 minutes for returning finalists or even semi-finalists. There would of course be another encore brunch where anyone could come up and play. If it were at all possible I would like to hire a chamber group for those amateurs who would like to try chamber music (we would have to figure out how to arrange practice time). We'll be discussing these ideas in a few weeks at a board meeting and see what is possible. N.
Last edited by Numerian; 09/08/10 09:16 PM.
Fazioli 228.
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Numerian: You may be interested to take a look at this other thread.....
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