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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1508154
09/02/10 11:39 PM
09/02/10 11:39 PM
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The two piano sonata is incredibly difficult to put together. You basically have to play with someone who is your musical twin. Even then, still horribly hard.



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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1508164
09/03/10 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
The two piano sonata is incredibly difficult to put together. You basically have to play with someone who is your musical twin.....

I sort of 'cut my teeth' as a pianist (such as I may be) smile on that piece -- and I think it went quite well with my partner and me, even though we were a bit yin-and-yang. (She played smooth as silk, then I would come in sort of like a jackhammer.) ha

Fortunately that's an exaggeration smile but I have a tape of it, and nobody ever has any trouble knowing what's her and what's me. whome

Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1508218
09/03/10 02:40 AM
09/03/10 02:40 AM
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About half of the Mozart sonata's you can pretty much sight-read through, but to perfect them, its really hard work. To me that is one of the main difference's between him and Haydn, and with Beethoven. 3 very different style's.


Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)
Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1508267
09/03/10 07:12 AM
09/03/10 07:12 AM
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Happy birthday, Victor.

I agree with your observation about sight reading the different composers' work. There are obvious exceptions, but as a generalization I think it holds water.

Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Victor25] #1508305
09/03/10 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Victor25
About half of the Mozart sonata's you can pretty much sight-read through, but to perfect them, its really hard work. To me that is one of the main difference's between him and Haydn, and with Beethoven. 3 very different style's.


I think Beethoven and Haydn are very easy sightreading as well, but I agree their styles are all very different. It's not the reading that's difficult it's the perfecting that is so darn hard!

I've never played the 310, though I do love it immensely...maybe that will be next on my to do list. The most difficult Mozart I've worked on is the K. 284 which has a really tricky cross-hands development section, but the rest isn't bad.


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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1508308
09/03/10 08:21 AM
09/03/10 08:21 AM
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Haydn I can sight read and almost instantly play
Mozart I can sight read and get a glimpse of what is really going on
Beethoven I can't sight read

I'm talking about the common cases ofcourse. However if you can sight-read beethoven Morodiene, you must be an exceptional player. I mean even just slowly trying to hit the right notes in pieces like op2 (2 and 3), op7, op53, op57, and op101 till 111 is really difficult. I am talking here ofcourse on prima vista. Which might be hard to recall if your really familiar with the pieces.

@pianodad, Thank you so much, you'r the first one who noticed laugh. 23 Now, starting to feel old eek

Last edited by Victor25; 09/03/10 08:22 AM.

Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)
Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Victor25] #1508337
09/03/10 09:06 AM
09/03/10 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Victor25
Haydn I can sight read and almost instantly play
Mozart I can sight read and get a glimpse of what is really going on
Beethoven I can't sight read

I'm talking about the common cases ofcourse. However if you can sight-read beethoven Morodiene, you must be an exceptional player. I mean even just slowly trying to hit the right notes in pieces like op2 (2 and 3), op7, op53, op57, and op101 till 111 is really difficult. I am talking here ofcourse on prima vista. Which might be hard to recall if your really familiar with the pieces.

@pianodad, Thank you so much, you'r the first one who noticed laugh. 23 Now, starting to feel old eek


Let me clarify: I do mean prima vista, but I am certainly not an exceptional player. I'm a fair sight reader. There certainly are places where I'd have to slow down in any case or just pick a slower tempo overall (Mozart, Beethoven or Haydn), and those would be the spots that would need tons of work perfecting. But reading the notes and figuring out what to play is really not that difficult. Also, late Beethoven is very different from his middle and early period. I would have trouble with op. 101-111 as well, but for some reason op. 53 was easy to read for me (but not easy to play!!). I guess I find it much easier than reading Ravel, Debussy, even Granados I found to be difficult due to the density.


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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1508358
09/03/10 09:44 AM
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Happy bday, Victor =)

Mark, you should totally post that recording.. Don't worry, I played it with someone long time ago (I think I was 14? oh god) and it was truly terrible. So I'm sure yours is better =P



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1508376
09/03/10 10:00 AM
09/03/10 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Happy bday, Victor =)

Mark, you should totally post that recording.. Don't worry, I played it with someone long time ago (I think I was 14? oh god) and it was truly terrible. So I'm sure yours is better =P


I'd love to hear it too! My father bought it for me and my sister to work on when we were teenagers. Needless to say, it didn't happen, but I've love to hear it again!


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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1508379
09/03/10 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
....Mark, you should totally post that recording.....

I'm very self-conscious about recordings -- maybe even worse than you! smile

BTW.....when we played it, we were 18 (her) and 20 (me). I don't think that would necessarily be better than you at 14. ha

Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1508389
09/03/10 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.


Don't worry, I played it with someone long time ago (I think I was 14? oh god) and it was truly terrible.


There you go again! grin

Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1508390
09/03/10 10:15 AM
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Haha, believe it. I switched partners the next semester though..



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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1508394
09/03/10 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Haha, believe it....

Yeah right. ha

BTW.....did you use any tricky L.H. fingering for "that part" in the last movement? Neither one of us ever did get that totally right.

And.......a few years ago I heard a pretty-famous duo perform it -- people that I actually know a bit -- and they seemed to play that part perfectly and easily. I spoke to them about it afterwards, and he confessed that they didn't play that part as written -- they divided it between the two of them, even though it's written as a "solo" both times -- so, they were able to play that L.H. part with 2 hands! Obviously I hadn't noticed. He said he was sure they could have learned to play it as written if they wanted to -- "But why bother?" ha
She seemed horrified that he admitted it. smile

Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Mark_C] #1508396
09/03/10 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Haha, believe it....

Yeah right. ha

BTW.....did you use any tricky L.H. fingering for "that part" in the last movement? Neither one of us ever did get that totally right.

And.......a few years ago I heard a pretty-famous duo perform it -- people that I actually know a bit -- and they seemed to play that part perfectly and easily. I spoke to them about it afterwards, and he confessed that they didn't play that part as written -- they divided it between the two of them, even though it's written as a "solo" both times -- so, they were able to play that L.H. part with 2 hands! Obviously I hadn't noticed. He said he was sure they could have learned to play it as written if they wanted to -- "But why bother?" ha
She seemed horrified that he had admitted it. smile


LOL This is good to know! I totally agree with him to, why bother? laugh


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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Brandon_W_T] #1508401
09/03/10 10:32 AM
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Haha no, we just went with it, at that age I didn't really know what was difficult, which made a lot of things easier I guess.. It was still a massacre. We only had a couple of weeks for it, and I was semi-sight reading for a lot of the rehearsals, ugh terrible..



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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Mark_C] #1508412
09/03/10 10:50 AM
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re the famous duo "splitting" the LH:
Sounds like they've got the "make it work" mindset. Guess that's what making a living and optimizing your production & time resources will lead you to do. I'm not disapproving, BTW.


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Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1508424
09/03/10 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Haha no, we just went with it, at that age I didn't really know what was difficult, which made a lot of things easier I guess.....

Maybe it also helped that you had little fingers. ha

It's really 'just one' of those little arpeggios that's hard, and with little fingers maybe it's not really hard to put that 2nd finger up there between the G# and the A#?? smile

Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: elecmuse3] #1508426
09/03/10 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by elecmuse3
re the famous duo "splitting" the LH:
Sounds like they've got the "make it work" mindset. Guess that's what making a living and optimizing your production & time resources will lead you to do. I'm not disapproving, BTW.

I both approve and disapprove too. ha

I don't think I'd let myself do it.* And of course, never dare do it in a competition....

* (unless my partner was some famous person who insisted on it) ha

Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: Mark_C] #1508902
09/04/10 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
The two piano sonata is incredibly difficult to put together. You basically have to play with someone who is your musical twin.....

I sort of 'cut my teeth' as a pianist (such as I may be) smile on that piece -- and I think it went quite well with my partner and me, even though we were a bit yin-and-yang. (She played smooth as silk, then I would come in sort of like a jackhammer.) ha

Fortunately that's an exaggeration smile but I have a tape of it, and nobody ever has any trouble knowing what's her and what's me. whome

I agree that this is a very difficult piece. Somewhere I have a recording of Malcolm Bilson and somebody else (Levin?) playing it on two forepianos. I really like the clarity that the drier sound brings to the piece, which is very dense in parts.

Re: Most difficult Mozart composition for piano? [Re: wdot] #1508933
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Originally Posted by wdot
.....Somewhere I have a recording of Malcolm Bilson and somebody else (Levin?) playing it on two forepianos....

Speak of the devil!! (Or in this case the angel.) smile
Bilson was our teacher!!

And yes, it probably is Levin.
P.S. I had the pleasure (I do mean pleasure!) of turning pages for them on this piece at a concert.

Quote
I really like the clarity that the drier sound brings to the piece, which is very dense in parts.

That's a big part of the argument for the fortepiano for such repertoire.

My preference: I like both instruments. smile
And I've gained a lot about playing Mozart on the 'regular' piano from knowing about the fortepiano.
Unfortunately not enough yet to ever dare to put a Mozart piece on a solo recital. ha

BTW: The reason our performance worked out well was that Bilson smoothed my playing out, and added some jackhammer to hers. smile

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