Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Welcome PianoTV members!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
111 registered members (anotherscott, akc42, ADIRL, aroyja, Almaviva, 29 invisible), 1,285 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1508113 - 09/02/10 10:09 PM Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite?  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dave Stahl  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
I was tightening flange screws on a 15-16 year old Baldwin "L" today, when I discovered that many of the screws were borderline stripped. I could only tighten them so much, and if I insisted, I could keep turning them without much trouble beyond the tightest point I could achieve.

I looked at the rail, and the surface of it at least appears to be "composite," aka "high grade" particle board. Sam or any of you other Baldwin afficionados out there experience this and/or know what materials were used here? It isn't a question of over-tightening too often, because this piano wasn't looked at for 7 years before I saw it last 6 months ago.

Just wondering...


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net
(ad 800)
PTG Journal
PTG Journal
#1512328 - 09/09/10 03:53 PM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 303
SM Boone Offline
Full Member
SM Boone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 303
VA USA
don't know about this particular piano. L Baldwin is my most favorite piano in the world,... yes, above any Steinway. They hold tune beautifully! I speculate this is due to the rounded hitch pins on bridge. I am someday owner of an L.
Composite would not hold up well. I cannot imagine Baldwin using that material for rail. Can you order a replacement rail and deal with that? SM

#1512343 - 09/09/10 04:18 PM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Hi Dave,

I don't think it should matter how often we tighten screws, they should not strip. I've encountered this with other Baldwin's not of the age you mentioned but, older ones. I filled in the holes with Bamboo sticks and Titebond to help hold the bamboo into place more solidly. That seemed to work well. The screws didn't come loose nearly as soon either. Another friend suggested a dab of CA but, I don't dare... It'll never come out again maybe... So, I have not done that.. I don't know what material was used, sorry.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1512440 - 09/09/10 06:11 PM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 303
SM Boone Offline
Full Member
SM Boone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 303
VA USA
agree!

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1512511 - 09/09/10 07:39 PM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,622
Bob Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,622
Florida
I saw it on new pianos at the stores in those days - I did Jerry's repair on the few that needed it. It didn't seem to be a wide spread issue.

#1512545 - 09/09/10 08:56 PM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dave Stahl  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Thanks for the input, folks. It is a new enough piano that this shouldn't be happening, but then things DO happen, even when they're not supposed to. It's the first time I've seen stripping holes on such a mass scale on a Baldwin, or any other piano, for that matter, so I thought I'd see if others had seen it.

Other than that, it is indeed a solid piano, and shimming the holes won't be a big deal.


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net
#1512595 - 09/09/10 11:56 PM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dale Fox  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Nor California Sacramento area
Dave,
you might try some thin CA on a couple holes first. It will go off almost immediately and usually will tighten up the wood fibers quite nicely. Remove the screws first of course. If they feel like they are "almost" stripped this is usually a good preventative.

Hard to believe anyone would think that kind of material to be appropriate in a hammer rail.... but I never assume people think.

Best.

Last edited by Dale Fox; 09/09/10 11:58 PM.

Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding
#1512693 - 09/10/10 06:29 AM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,773
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,773
Bradford County, PA
My experience with grands is limited. I suppose over tightening will strip the threads from any material.

The original question is what material is the hammer rail made of on this L. I know on the R I care for that the rail is made of maple, but covered with sandpaper to hold the flanges in position. Could it be that it is the same with the L and looks like composite at first glance?

I really like the sandpaper idea and wonder if it would be a good option when converting old uprights from brass rail to conventional hammer flanges. Hope to find out some day...


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
#1512702 - 09/10/10 06:58 AM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Mark R.  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Pretoria, South Africa
I would add that the current state of those threads depends not only on the material of construction, but quite heavily on how they were treated in the past. When turning a cutting screw or self-threader into relatively soft materials, I have come to learn that one should back out first, until the thread "seats", and only then screw it in. In my experience, if one neglects this seating, that's the fastest way to ruin the thread in the wood (or whatever material). Two or three unnoticed misthreads, and the wood is done for - especially on softer woods or particle board.

I recorded a little just-for-fun video the other day while re-installing my Ibach's dampers. The seating that I refer to, can be seen (and heard) at 1:48, 2:30 and 3:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5yE2C5lZLs

Sorry if this is old hat to everyone here, but I just wanted to add it here, because I've seen all too many woodworkers (in the broader sense of the word) who neglect this, and it hadn't been mentioned up to this point.


Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.
#1512741 - 09/10/10 08:46 AM Re: Baldwin "L" hammer flange rail...composite? [Re: UnrightTooner]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dave Stahl  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
My experience with grands is limited. I suppose over tightening will strip the threads from any material.

The original question is what material is the hammer rail made of on this L. I know on the R I care for that the rail is made of maple, but covered with sandpaper to hold the flanges in position. Could it be that it is the same with the L and looks like composite at first glance?



This could very well be the case, but I admit to not having inspected very closely. Superficial inspection did and subsequent screw behaviour caused me to ask the question. I'll check it more closely at the next service call and give a report.


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
CLEARANCE SPECIALS!
Save Big In our online store now

In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
SummerKeys
Maine Coast Music Vacation for Adults
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Don't understand the timing of this Beethoven
by akc42. 01/18/18 06:52 PM
Best upright piano possible
by Heinrichengels. 01/18/18 06:05 PM
Don't forget the one month until recital thread!
by Monica K.. 01/18/18 05:02 PM
When your voice isn't high enough
by phantomFive. 01/18/18 04:57 PM
Website to list music lessons
by fliu1989. 01/18/18 04:24 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,857
Posts2,688,313
Members89,476
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0