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Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? #1505316
08/29/10 11:37 AM
08/29/10 11:37 AM
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Afterthought Offline OP
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I'm auditioning for this piano recital, and I have to audition with two contrasting pieces. I'll be playing Chopin's Revolutionary Etude, and Rachmaninoff's Etude in A minor, Op. 39, No. 6. I have to prove that Rach.'s etude is contrasting from Chopin's. I know that Rach. is a Romantic composer, but his Op. 38 songs and Op. 39 Etudes-Tableaux are very contemporary. He had been studying Scriabin and Prokofiev, especially when he had to perform Scriabin's works for memorial concerts.

What do you think? Are the pieces contrasting enough so that I won't be disqualified? And do you have any more reasons why the Op. 39 Etudes-Tableaux can be considered modern?

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Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: Afterthought] #1505328
08/29/10 12:00 PM
08/29/10 12:00 PM
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nova scotia
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pilgrim Offline
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nova scotia
how are scriabin and prokofiev 'contemporary'?


repertoire for the moment:
bach: prelude and fugue in b-, book i (WTC)
mozart - sonata in D+, k. 576
schumann (transc. liszt) - widmung
coulthard - image astrale
Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: pilgrim] #1505339
08/29/10 12:15 PM
08/29/10 12:15 PM
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BDB Offline
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Contrasting might be a slow piece and a fast piece. It could be stormy versus calm.

Contemporary should mean that the composer is alive, or at least has been alive during your lifetime.


Semipro Tech
Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: BDB] #1505353
08/29/10 12:39 PM
08/29/10 12:39 PM
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not somewhere over the rainbow
Pogorelich. Offline
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No he's not modern. But it definitely contrasts Chopin because rachmaninoff is late romantic



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1505520
08/29/10 07:34 PM
08/29/10 07:34 PM
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jeffreyjones Offline
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I think Rachmaninoff gets unfairly dismissed as being too Romantic, when in fact his music has almost nothing in common with any of the great Romantic composers. He was too much of an individual to be drawn into a category. He used modern harmonic language with Asiatic influences, Wagnerian "endless melodies," and Impressionistic figurations.

Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: jeffreyjones] #1505523
08/29/10 07:45 PM
08/29/10 07:45 PM
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Pogorelich. Offline
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Yeah that's it. I can't really categorize him because he is too special..



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1505532
08/29/10 08:00 PM
08/29/10 08:00 PM
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BruceD Offline
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I think you're treading a pretty thin line if you're hoping that judges will consider these pieces sufficiently contrasting. Yes, they contrast, but within a style that is quite similar.

There is about as much difference/similarity between these two as there is between the Chopin Etudes Op 10 Nos 12 and 4, except that they are by different composers.

Just my opinion, however ....

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: BruceD] #1505535
08/29/10 08:09 PM
08/29/10 08:09 PM
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jeffreyjones Offline
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Oh, I hadn't noticed that they're both virtuoso etudes. Doing two etudes is usually overkill. I would keep the Chopin and add something by a Classical era composer, but then, Beethoven is my strongest composer..

Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: jeffreyjones] #1505553
08/29/10 08:45 PM
08/29/10 08:45 PM
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Catenaires Offline
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Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
I think Rachmaninoff gets unfairly dismissed as being too Romantic, when in fact his music has almost nothing in common with any of the great Romantic composers. He was too much of an individual to be drawn into a category. He used modern harmonic language with Asiatic influences, Wagnerian "endless melodies," and Impressionistic figurations.



+1. I've always seen Rachmaninov as a Neo-Romantic with some strong 'Modernist' tendencies. His language is certainly more modern than most people give him credit.

Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: jeffreyjones] #1505558
08/29/10 08:49 PM
08/29/10 08:49 PM
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Kreisler Offline
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It depends on how wide/narrow your worldview is.

For people who understand piano music to encompass everything from William Byrd to Carl Vine, then you've picked two pieces that come out of the exact same tradition - 19th century virtuoso pianism.

Within that tradition, however, the pieces contrast quite a bit for all the reasons that have been stated.

It's a bit like comparing Orange Juice and Apple Juice. They're very, very different and offer a lot of contrast in the world of "juices," but in the world of "drinks," they're basically the same.

Or consider the art world. For some, Van Gogh and Degas are completely different. For others, they're both painters who painted rather familiar subjects. Neither was particularly abstract on the level of Picasso, Kandinsky or Klee; and if your view of "art" includes photography, installation work, performance art, manuscript illuminations of religious texts, "found object" art and ceramics/pottery, then Degas and Van Gogh are virtually identical.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1505597
08/29/10 09:49 PM
08/29/10 09:49 PM
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Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Orange Soda King Offline
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Pogorelich, I LOVE LOVE LOVE your new obsession!! I played that piece... Have you played it? laugh laugh

Also, I would count him as a 20th century composer (for obvious reasons, haha) although he didn't compose in as radical a 20th century style as many others.

I mean, would you consider York Bowen ("English Rachmaninoff") romantic, too? He was even later, but also (often) composed in that passionate romantic sound that Rachmaninoff did. It even earned him the above nickname, hehe. smile

Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: Orange Soda King] #1505658
08/29/10 11:40 PM
08/29/10 11:40 PM
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No I haven't! God knows I can't afford to start anything new right now, with auditions coming up and stuff.. =( But I REALLY want to, believe me!!!! Is it awesome playing it?? I bet it is!!!

It's been stuck in my head for literally, weeks.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1505668
08/29/10 11:48 PM
08/29/10 11:48 PM
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Quickster94 Offline
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Rachmaninoff is definitely not a simple "Romantic" composer. However, I think in terms of the competition, you'll be hard pressed to completely justify that your two pieces are "contrasting."

With the wealth of literature out there for piano, which other entrants will be accessing, these two works are really quite similar.

Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: Catenaires] #1505752
08/30/10 02:44 AM
08/30/10 02:44 AM
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wr Offline
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Originally Posted by Catenaires
Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
I think Rachmaninoff gets unfairly dismissed as being too Romantic, when in fact his music has almost nothing in common with any of the great Romantic composers. He was too much of an individual to be drawn into a category. He used modern harmonic language with Asiatic influences, Wagnerian "endless melodies," and Impressionistic figurations.



+1. I've always seen Rachmaninov as a Neo-Romantic with some strong 'Modernist' tendencies. His language is certainly more modern than most people give him credit.


There's nothing very "neo" about it, because in his environment, there was no particular break between the Romantic period and what he was doing. If anything, it would more accurately described as "late-Romantic". I also think the tendencies to modernize his language were actually pretty modest. Certainly it can't be considered "modern" in the sense that his peers Stravinsky, Schoenberg, and Bartok are "modern". The majority of his music is still pretty anchored in the old tonal language, even if he ventures into some exoticism and a kind of near-Impressionistic tone-painting at times (but then, so did Liszt and Rimsky). Nearly all of his music ends on a good old tonic. I think even Debussy was more modern.

Re: Can some of Rachmaninoff's pieces be considered modern...? [Re: wr] #1506801
08/31/10 07:26 PM
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Despite all the fine nuances in the above mentioned, Rachmaninov is ( and I don't say 'should be') considered as a 'romantic' composer, as to technique and musical content, if anyone doubt this fact, they haven't been part of any competition or never left their continent, country, town, village, house, room... for auditions one should be aware of that fact, usually one is, or one is warned beforehand..


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