Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Im Not Comfortable When Playing Bach And Mozart

Except a lot of the very great Bach players didn'/don't play in a very detatched way and even used quite a bit of pedal. Plus there's an awful lot of sixtenth notes or eighths not in slow tempos on Bach. PLus I think on CPE's pianos(with less sustain than a modern piano)there wouldn't be such a difference between notes held for their full value and those held for half their value.

Don't the manuscripts of Bach keyboard's work lack slurs and phrase marks altogether?

There's two Two-part Inventions with slurs for starters.

Was CPE God?

Anyway.....IMO that little rule is usually true but it's not Gospel.
So to speak.

And those other rules you cited:

Many would say it's a mistake to take them as rules at all.

The last one at least has the benefit of being stated as "usually" rather than as an absolute -- but I'm not sure it's even "usually" true.

I had to google that strange car you're referencing!

I guess the comparison works. You may have to spend some time learning the little quirks of each car, and how to best drive each one - but these nuanced and individually tailored things come after learning how to steer, acclerate and brake, and avoiding pedestrians (if that's you're thing).

Awesome:


So which one's the Trabant and which one's the Ferrari? >:)

Amen, brother!
His advice on 'taste' is much more valuable than some of his more pedantic, period-instrument-based rules (and very informative they are when appropriate). Luckily, 'taste' should prohibit modern pianists from treating their lovely instruments as glorified harpsichords.
Should....

Me2. And a lot about it is interesting.

Main thing I got out of it:
(from Wiki)

".....Since it could take years (usual waiting time 15 years) for a Trabant to be delivered from the time it was ordered, people who finally got one were very careful with it and usually became skillful in maintaining and repairing it. The lifespan of an average Trabant was 28 years....."

So maybe if you've been into one of those, you could also handle a Ferrari!
Or anything.

P.S. Check out that part about "usual waiting time 15 years"!!
It was basically a 'Communist car' (East German).

One of the links said:
How do you double the value of a Trabant?

Fill up the tank!!

My piano teacher's brother once said that if you could play Mozart, you could play anything. I'm inclined to agree.....I'm less terrified by the Hammerklavier, Rachmaninoff's 2nd concerto, anything, than the thought of playing any Mozart sonata. The transparency makes any imperfection incredibly visible, and it's just so difficult. I agree with Pogorelich when she says she feels naked playing their works, cause I feel the same way.

Here is Quantz: 'You must avoid slurring notes that ought to be artculated, and articulating those that ought to be slurred. The notes must not seem stuck together. The tonging on wind instruments, and the bowing on bowed instruments, must always be used in conformity with the aims of the composer, in accordance with his indications of slurs and strokes; this puts life into the notes. [Articulation of this sort] distinguishes these instruments from the bagpipe, which is played without tonguing.' But hey, who was Quantz anyway?

Why wicked fast? There's no tempo indication, after all. I actually don't like it all that fast.

The flutist??
Anyway, I play a lot of Mozart, and in general I limit my arm weight and rely more on my fingers. The Taubman training I received really helped me clean up my Mozart, especially all those runs.

Bach...it depends on the piece. My view on Bach is, since he didn't write for the piano, I'm interpreting how he would have played if he had played on the modern grands. Some large-scale pieces (like the Preludes in the suites) would call for more orchestral colors, while the 2-part writings would be played like two instruments having a conversation.

Here's Leopold Mozart: 'Similarly, from the sixth and seventh chapters is to be seen how greatly the slurring
and detaching distinguishes a melody. Therefore not only must the written
and prescribed slurs be observed with the greatest exactitude but when, as in many a composition, nothing at all is indicated, the player must himself know how to apply the slurring and detaching tastefully and in the right place.'

Quite obviously a non-legato style; point being the difficulty in Bach and Mozart of having to judge how to articulate every note and carry it out on the hoof.

My error. I thought 'major' and typed 'minor.'

Interesting. Every teacher I've had has advocated non-legato. Of course, decisions must be made as to which notes are non-legato. Alfred's editions of Inventions & Sinfonias as well as WTC have many suggestions to match this. I think the toughest part of playing Baroque music is playing the articulations.

And I agree that playing Baroque or Classical music leaves the performer more "exposed". I think this is due to the above as well as the fact that pedaling is often direct rather than syncopated/legato.

Don't worry about it. It doesn't make you a bad player, it just means that you need more work on your Classical/Baroque interpretation. It can be achieved, with loads of practise. To play the earlier styles is very hard, they have an extremely clean and crisp sound. Practise.

I think playing Bach or Mozart leaves you so exposed!! Very little pedal or rubato, almost impossible to camouflage a mistake or getting lost. All of the key changes and voicing that must be so well thought out and clear. Very very different than the Romantic era. Just takes a lot of miles and playing for friends where you won't collapse if you mess up.

in the baroque and early classical repertoire, say Scarlatti through Bach, Haydn and Mozart (and the likes) there's no hiding from mistakes in technique/temperament, every unevenness will be blatently clear, one can't hide behind pedal/other notes/big sound, this is reaaly the moment of truth: if you're good, no problem, if there's the slightest hesitation tech./musically, you're done with, that's why Domenico has that extra letter in his surname: Scarelatti...

Scarelatte? Is that like a phobia of starbucks? :P

it's a fobia of hitting wrong notes too loudly and not playing in style, and of getting one's ands caught in one's sleeves..

.....yes, and I think there's another factor:

In the Romantic period, the piano composers started writing with much more consideration of how things "fall in the hand." Before that, it was more just "pure music" that happened to be on a keyboard.

Y'all don't have to tell me that this isn't absolute; I know it isn't. But to the extent that it's true, it means that the pre-19th century music is just plain harder to play evenly and musically -- in addition to the other factors that have been mentioned.