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Advanced tunelab #1490603
08/08/10 12:18 AM
08/08/10 12:18 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
DoelKees Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member
DoelKees  Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
The purpose of this tutorial is to show how to tweak the "tuning curve" using the information in the "deviation curve".

In tunelab open the sample file "average.tun". Press the "edit template curve" button (T). In the bass and treble select "4:2 single octaves". On the top press the "auto" (A) button, then press the "auto" buttons near the bass and treble menus.

To adjust the display of the curves to their ranges then press the "+" button at the top (Z). It toggles between a fixed range, and the available range.

You should now see this:
[Linked Image]

The top is the tuning curve, below the deviation curve.

The tuning curve is the deviation in cents from an equal temperament tuning without inharmonicity. You see C8 is 41 cents sharp and A0 is 1 cent flat.

The jumps you see after E2 E3 and G#4 are artifacts of the selected partials. In the top range the tuning curve measures the offset from theoretical ET of the 1st partial, below that of the second, below that the 4th, below that the 6th. This is is just because those partials are aurally most significant. To see the more theoretical tuning curve of the first partial (which you will not use in practice to measure all notes) press the "X" or hit ESC and go to the edit->"edit partials" menu and set all of them temporarily to 1. (Set A0 to 1 and keep hitting "duplicate".)

Now look again at the tuning curve (T) and press Z a few times to get the right scales in the display. You now should see this:
[Linked Image]

Note that the tuning curve is now completely smooth. It now shows the stretch in terms of the fundamental.

If you look closely at the deviation curve, you'll notice it is not zero everywhere. It is zero at the ends, but about 0.05 cents in the middle.

So now is the time to explain what the "deviation curve" really is.

After selecting 4:2 octaves everywhere and pressing "auto" tunelab finds the tuning curve that gets the 4:2 octaves most perfect. However a restriction of tunelab is that the tuning curve is assumed to have a special form (the sum of two exponential functions) and within those constraints it is generally not possible to satisfy the "requirements" (i.e., 4:2 octaves everywhere) that you put in exactly. In this case the difference is completely negligible, but later on we'll see an example where the deviation curve is less close to zero.

It means that in the middle at, say, D4, the 4:2 octave is 0.05 cent off from where we wanted it to be.

Now select in the bass drop down menu, "6:3 octaves", but do NOT press "auto". Press "Z" twice to get the display in range.

The "deviation" curve now consists of two parts. The range A0-C#4 shows how much "off" the 6:3 octave is, using the tuning curve we just generated based on 4:2 octaves. Above that it shows how much the 4:2 octave is off (which is negligibly small). As expected, it shows the 6:3 octaves are narrow in the bass, indicating that the bass needs to be stretched to get them in tune, if you'd want that (which you probably do).

Now DO press "auto" in the bass and 'Z' three times to adjust the display range.

Now we have generated a different tuning curve. This curve gets a beatless 6:3 octave for A0-A1 and a beatless 4:2 octave for C7-C8 and in-between it generates a compromise which is weighted towards 6:3 in the bass, about an equal mix in the midrange, and mostly 4:2 in the treble.

The jump in the deviation curve at C#4D4 is caused just because there the curve switches from displaying 6:3 deviation to 4:2 deviation. It is not a break in the tuning, just a break in what is displayed.

Now in the treble drop down menu select 2:1 octaves, but do NOT press "auto". Press "Z" twice to adjust the range. What you see now is the deviation of the 2:1 octaves using the tuning curve based on the 6:3 --> 4:2 requirements you put in earlier. As expected, the 2:1 octaves are wide, since 4:2 octaves are wider than 2:1 octaves.

To check, press "auto" in the treble, generating a tuning curve based on 6:3 in the bass and 2:1 in the treble, then select 4:2 again in the treble and you see the expected result: 4:2 octaves are narrow when you tune 2:1 octaves.

Next, let's try something harder, namely to get Stopper's tuning with perfect 12ths everywhere.

Let's start naively, by selecting "3:1 12ths" in the bass and treble, press auto at both places and adjust the display range.
[Linked Image]

Even though we demanded 3:1 12ths, the deviation curve is not zero, it is off by about 0.7 cents in the middle. The reason for this is that the tuning curve demanded by perfect 3:1 12ths is NOT a sum of exponentials, which tunelab assumes. The tuning curve tunelab gives you is is the closest it can get. As Bernhard kindly pointed out, Stopper tuning is however more subtle, it is based on AURALLY pure 12ths. And in the bass this means 6:2 12ths or even 12:4.

So let's try, as an excercise, to select 6:4 12ths in the bass. DON'T press "auto".

You now see the 6:2 12ths are too narrow. Now let's press "auto" and now we see something which is probably the closest we can get to Stopper tuning with tunelab.

The tuning we have now (call it "tunelab-Stopper") is perfectly acceptable, though not being a true Stopper tuning. Now to analyse it let's select 6:3 octaves in the bass (without pressing"auto"). You'll see they are bit wide, mostly near G#1, less so at A0 and become pure at F3. We could also inspect the 8:4 octaves and see they are quite narrow, indicating tunelab-Stopper has less stretch than 8:4 octaves.

If you're unhappy with any of the "auto" results you can move the tuning curve around yourself and evaluate the results theoretically by inspecting various intervals of interest (6:3, 4:2, 3:1, 6:2, anything on the menu) and select precisely what you want. For example if you want mindless octaves (equal beating 3:1 and 4:1) you can start off with selecting 3:1 in the treble, generate an "auto" tuning curve, and tweak it until 3:1 and 4:1 are about equally off, to the best of tunelabs tuning curve restrictions.

Hope this was helpful, and look forward to additions/corrections.

Kees



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Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1490622
08/08/10 12:47 AM
08/08/10 12:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Cy Shuster, RPT  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Very interesting, Kees.

I'll also add that it's a commonly expressed goal to pick octave sizes that generate the flattest deviation curve. I find that this often gives an undesirably small stretch.

I don't like to have any offsets more than +/- three cents in the deviation curve, but I'll gladly accept an "S" shape there if I get the aural stretch that I like.

After I tune aurally, I go back and measure the pitch of all the A's, and transfer them to the custom offset for those notes. They show up red in the tuning curve graph. I then tweak the curve to hit those custom offsets as best as I can (choosing the option to retain those custom offsets).

I also use TuneLab for historic temperaments (as well as pitch raising, my most frequent use).

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT] #1490936
08/08/10 03:14 PM
08/08/10 03:14 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
DoelKees Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member
DoelKees  Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted by Cy Shuster


I'll also add that it's a commonly expressed goal to pick octave sizes that generate the flattest deviation curve. I find that this often gives an undesirably small stretch.


"Flattest" for which intervals?

Originally Posted by Cy Shuster

I don't like to have any offsets more than +/- three cents in the deviation curve, but I'll gladly accept an "S" shape there if I get the aural stretch that I like.


Deviation curve for which intervals?

Originally Posted by Cy Shuster

After I tune aurally, I go back and measure the pitch of all the A's, and transfer them to the custom offset for those notes. They show up red in the tuning curve graph. I then tweak the curve to hit those custom offsets as best as I can (choosing the option to retain those custom offsets).

I also use TuneLab for historic temperaments (as well as pitch raising, my most frequent use).


Great idea. Do the default settings work best for pitch raising in your experience? I tried a 70cent tunelab pitch raise on a small console yesterday. After 1 pass it was playable but not much more...

Kees

Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1491900
08/09/10 06:11 PM
08/09/10 06:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,205
Jakobstad, Finland
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member
pppat  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,205
Jakobstad, Finland
Great iniative, Kees! I don't use TL myself (at least not yet), but I will follow this thread closely.


Patrick Wingren, RPT
Wingren Pianistik
https://facebook.com/wingrenpianistik
Concert Tuner at Schauman Hall, Jakobstad, Finland
Musician, arranger, composer

- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.
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Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: pppat] #1493092
08/10/10 10:53 PM
08/10/10 10:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 131
Twin Lakes, WI
Thomas Dowell Offline
Full Member
Thomas Dowell  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 131
Twin Lakes, WI
What I really want in Tunelab is the ability to see, in BPS, the deviation curves of two intervals at the same time. I haven't tried it yet on the latest iPhone version of Tunelab. What I really want to try to do is imitate the "mindless octave", by looking at the deviation curve for 4:1 double octaves, and 3:1 12th, and setting the tuning's stretch so that it is perfectly balanced between Octaves and 12ths.

I tried this a while ago, and couldn't get it to work. And it has to be in BPS, not Cents, because 3 Cents deviation from a pure 12th will beat differently than 3 cents deviation from a pure double octave.

If you have found a way of doing this consistently, let me know.

Regards,


Thomas Dowell, R.P.T.
Dowell Piano
www.dowellpiano.com
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: Thomas Dowell] #1493116
08/10/10 11:31 PM
08/10/10 11:31 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
DoelKees Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member
DoelKees  Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted by Tdowel
What I really want in Tunelab is the ability to see, in BPS, the deviation curves of two intervals at the same time. I haven't tried it yet on the latest iPhone version of Tunelab. What I really want to try to do is imitate the "mindless octave", by looking at the deviation curve for 4:1 double octaves, and 3:1 12th, and setting the tuning's stretch so that it is perfectly balanced between Octaves and 12ths.

I tried this a while ago, and couldn't get it to work. And it has to be in BPS, not Cents, because 3 Cents deviation from a pure 12th will beat differently than 3 cents deviation from a pure double octave.

If you have found a way of doing this consistently, let me know.

Regards,


Tunelab displays in cents, there is no way around that. Also you can have only one deviation at the same time displayed as far as I know.

Regarding MO, since the intervals are 3:1 and 4:1 you should set the 4:1 deviation to be 4/3 of the 3:1 deviation in cents and they should beat equally.

Kees

Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1493122
08/10/10 11:42 PM
08/10/10 11:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 131
Twin Lakes, WI
Thomas Dowell Offline
Full Member
Thomas Dowell  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 131
Twin Lakes, WI
Actually, Tunelab can be set to view in BPS. On my version you make a "Z" shape swipe on the deviation curve, and it changes to BPS. It doesn't stay in BPS when you change to a different interval. I realize that you can work around seeing the two curves, but I can dream, can't I?

What version of Tunelab are you using? (97, Notebook, PPC, iPhone?)

Have a good evening. It's late here in the Midwest, and I've got a full day tommorow.

Regards,



Thomas Dowell, R.P.T.
Dowell Piano
www.dowellpiano.com
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1493719
08/11/10 06:23 PM
08/11/10 06:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 788
Cincinnati, Ohio
R
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member
RoyP  Offline
500 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 788
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hi. I do something a little different to get TL to approximate a Stopper tuning. First of all, I am doing this on the pocket version of TL. I go to the table of partials, and change the partial being read in the middle of the piano to the 3rd partial. From the bottom, at the spot where TL changes from the 6th to the 4th, I start it reading the 3rd. Then hit the "duplicate" button, and change the partial up as far as you want. Sometimes I use the fundamental above A4, sometimes I read the 3rd partial higher. It will only go up so far, at which point it defaults to 1. This means that you are setting the machine to listen to the 12th throughout the middle of the piano.

When setting the curve, you don't have to use the auto adjust feature. In your example, the deviation curve is well below the line in the middle of the piano, even though you have chosen 3:1 for both the bass and treble. Inharmonicity won't let you keep the curve right on the line if you have it pegged at zero on either end. Whatever octave size you chose, you have to remember that TL isn't actually tuning that octave size unless it is centered on the line. So, it gets you there by the time you reach the outer extremes of the scale, but it is blending them in the middle. Choosing 3:1 for both the bass and treble, you are getting something narrow of 3:1 throughout most of the piano. We want to actually be tuning pure 12ths. My solution is manually adjust the curve sharp at the upper end. It doesn't have to be pegged to the deviation line. Depending on inharmonicity, often I can get curves which are centered on the deviation line up to about C6. I often tune the lower and upper ends of the piano aurally, because it gets dicey at the extremes. Using this method, I have found I can create smooth pure 12ths throughout most of the piano.

This is what I love about Tunelab. It is a flexible tool.


Originally Posted by DoelKees

Next, let's try something harder, namely to get Stopper's tuning with perfect 12ths everywhere.

Let's start naively, by selecting "3:1 12ths" in the bass and treble, press auto at both places and adjust the display range.
[Linked Image]

Even though we demanded 3:1 12ths, the deviation curve is not zero, it is off by about 0.7 cents in the middle. The reason for this is that the tuning curve demanded by perfect 3:1 12ths is NOT a sum of exponentials, which tunelab assumes. The tuning curve tunelab gives you is is the closest it can get. As Bernhard kindly pointed out, Stopper tuning is however more subtle, it is based on AURALLY pure 12ths. And in the bass this means 6:2 12ths or even 12:4.

So let's try, as an excercise, to select 6:4 12ths in the bass. DON'T press "auto".

You now see the 6:2 12ths are too narrow. Now let's press "auto" and now we see something which is probably the closest we can get to Stopper tuning with tunelab.

The tuning we have now (call it "tunelab-Stopper") is perfectly acceptable, though not being a true Stopper tuning. Now to analyse it let's select 6:3 octaves in the bass (without pressing"auto"). You'll see they are bit wide, mostly near G#1, less so at A0 and become pure at F3. We could also inspect the 8:4 octaves and see they are quite narrow, indicating tunelab-Stopper has less stretch than 8:4 octaves.

If you're unhappy with any of the "auto" results you can move the tuning curve around yourself and evaluate the results theoretically by inspecting various intervals of interest (6:3, 4:2, 3:1, 6:2, anything on the menu) and select precisely what you want. For example if you want mindless octaves (equal beating 3:1 and 4:1) you can start off with selecting 3:1 in the treble, generate an "auto" tuning curve, and tweak it until 3:1 and 4:1 are about equally off, to the best of tunelabs tuning curve restrictions.

Hope this was helpful, and look forward to additions/corrections.

Kees




Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1494926
08/13/10 02:42 AM
08/13/10 02:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Cy Shuster, RPT  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by DoelKees
[quote=Cy Shuster]

I'll also add that it's a commonly expressed goal to pick octave sizes that generate the flattest deviation curve. I find that this often gives an undesirably small stretch.


Originally Posted by DoelKees

"Flattest" for which intervals?


You don't get to choose in TL. When editing the curve, all you get to choose is the bass and treble octave styles (6:3, 4:2, etc.).

Originally Posted by Cy Shuster

I don't like to have any offsets more than +/- three cents in the deviation curve, but I'll gladly accept an "S" shape there if I get the aural stretch that I like.


Originally Posted by DoelKees

Deviation curve for which intervals?

Ditto.

Originally Posted by Cy Shuster

After I tune aurally, I go back and measure the pitch of all the A's, and transfer them to the custom offset for those notes. They show up red in the tuning curve graph. I then tweak the curve to hit those custom offsets as best as I can (choosing the option to retain those custom offsets).

I also use TuneLab for historic temperaments (as well as pitch raising, my most frequent use).


Originally Posted by DoelKees

Great idea. Do the default settings work best for pitch raising in your experience? I tried a 70cent tunelab pitch raise on a small console yesterday. After 1 pass it was playable but not much more...
Kees


I find the outer limits for a one-pass pitch raise home-quality tuning to be somewhere around 20 cents. Certainly for 70 cents I blast through a first pass with no mutes, perhaps even using just average.tun (check out the "Timed Up" note switch setting for one this far off). Then I measure IH and do another overpull pass.

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: Thomas Dowell] #1494927
08/13/10 02:44 AM
08/13/10 02:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Cy Shuster, RPT  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by Tdowel
What I really want in Tunelab is the ability to see, in BPS, the deviation curves of two intervals at the same time.


Robert added this feature in a recent version. I think you set it in the preferences file. I haven't tried it.

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT] #1496884
08/16/10 03:40 AM
08/16/10 03:40 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
DoelKees Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member
DoelKees  Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted by Cy Shuster
Originally Posted by DoelKees
[quote=Cy Shuster]

I'll also add that it's a commonly expressed goal to pick octave sizes that generate the flattest deviation curve. I find that this often gives an undesirably small stretch.


Originally Posted by DoelKees

"Flattest" for which intervals?


You don't get to choose in TL. When editing the curve, all you get to choose is the bass and treble octave styles (6:3, 4:2, etc.).


That's what I meant by "which intervals". You can also select 5ths 12ths and some more stuff. So what should be flat?

Kees

Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1496894
08/16/10 03:56 AM
08/16/10 03:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Gadzar Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gadzar  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Cy,

Are you sure you can see at the deviation of two different intervals at the same time?

How do you do it? (it would be two different curves in a unique graph)


Last edited by Gadzar; 08/16/10 03:57 AM.

Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: Gadzar] #1496968
08/16/10 09:23 AM
08/16/10 09:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Cy Shuster, RPT  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
It's all in the documentation:
http://www.tunelab-world.com/downloads.html

For example:
http://www.tunelab-world.com/tunelab_pocket_manual.pdf

See page 31 for an sample graph, and Chapter 7 for the settings file:

AltBassInterval = n : m
This setting defines an alternate bass interval to be displayed in the tuning curve adjuster, in addition to
the primary bass interval selection. The following intervals are allowed for n : m
4:2 single octaves 12:3 double octaves
6:3 single octaves 8:1 triple octaves
8:4 single octaves 3:2 fifths
10:5 single octaves 6:4 fifths
12:6 single octaves 3:1 12ths
4:1 double octaves 6:2 12ths
8:2 double octaves 6:1 octave+12th

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1496972
08/16/10 09:27 AM
08/16/10 09:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Cy Shuster, RPT  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,458
Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by DoelKees


That's what I meant by "which intervals". You can also select 5ths 12ths and some more stuff. So what should be flat?

Kees


Selection of coincident partials is much more involved than making the curve flat (but it's a start). Generally this is called "choosing how much to stretch".

Rick Baldassin's book "On Pitch" gives a great explanation, and is an excellent guide for making the transition from ETD to aural tuning. It also explains the aural concepts you need to know in order to make intelligent option choices in an ETD.

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: Cy Shuster, RPT] #1497075
08/16/10 12:41 PM
08/16/10 12:41 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
DoelKees Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member
DoelKees  Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
That's interesting, I have an old version of tunelab without the option of a second deviation to display. Time to upgrade!

Kees

Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1497104
08/16/10 01:14 PM
08/16/10 01:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,200
Marietta, GA
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Les Koltvedt  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,200
Marietta, GA
Kees, this is done in a text file which is loaded when you start TL...now I don't know for a fact if it's in the old version, but it is not in any menu selection, you have to edit that text file.


Les Koltvedt
Servicing the Greater Atlanta Area.
www.well-lovedpiano.com/atlanta-piano-technicians/
PTG Associate
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: DoelKees] #1500516
08/21/10 03:40 PM
08/21/10 03:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
Miami Beach, FL
P
Phil Ryan Offline
Junior Member
Phil Ryan  Offline
Junior Member
P

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
Miami Beach, FL
I just started using Tunelab on a regular basis and I find the bass notes to be very sharp when compared to my last tunings of the piano (6-8 cents). I like the sound, but wonder if that is a normal procedure for TL? I use the "full automatic" setting. Is there a simple way to flatten the bass section or should it be that sharp?

Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: Phil Ryan] #1500524
08/21/10 03:56 PM
08/21/10 03:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 339
Minnesota
R
Robert Scott Offline
Full Member
Robert Scott  Offline
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R

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 339
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Phil Ryan
I just started using Tunelab on a regular basis and I find the bass notes to be very sharp when compared to my last tunings of the piano (6-8 cents). I like the sound, but wonder if that is a normal procedure for TL? I use the "full automatic" setting. Is there a simple way to flatten the bass section or should it be that sharp?

Try changing the bass interval selection to 8:4 octaves instead of the default of 6:3. The 8:4 will give more stretch in the bass, and thus make the bass flatter.



Robert Scott
Hopkins, Minnesota
http://www.tunelab-world.com
Re: Advanced tunelab [Re: Robert Scott] #1500534
08/21/10 04:17 PM
08/21/10 04:17 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
DoelKees Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member
DoelKees  Offline OP

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,499
Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted by Robert Scott
Originally Posted by Phil Ryan
I just started using Tunelab on a regular basis and I find the bass notes to be very sharp when compared to my last tunings of the piano (6-8 cents). I like the sound, but wonder if that is a normal procedure for TL? I use the "full automatic" setting. Is there a simple way to flatten the bass section or should it be that sharp?

Try changing the bass interval selection to 8:4 octaves instead of the default of 6:3. The 8:4 will give more stretch in the bass, and thus make the bass flatter.

I usually find that a setting to get the low bass and high treble stretched enough results in too much of the stretch spilling over to the (approximate) G1-G6 range.

A very good feature would be to have two additional stretch intervals for the high treble and low bass, but this would probably require a change from the two exponentials tuning curve. One possibility I've use is to display the second interval (a neat feature, too bad it requires a restart to change) and use it to manually set cutsom offsets in the low bass and high treble.

Kees


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