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#1499661 - 08/20/10 01:08 AM How much is enough  
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Jose Hidalgo Offline
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As a beginner with the piano I have 2 issues in my mind:

I am anxious to get to a certain level
I also want to enjoy life and not be a slave of the piano

Context:
I have to work from 7am to 6pm, in my 30s and with a girlfriend

One hour per day may be something possible and easy to accomplish, but how much is enough ?


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#1499668 - 08/20/10 01:51 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: Jose Hidalgo]  
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Basia C. Offline
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Basia C.  Offline
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Sweden
That's impossible to answer I think. Everyone probably thinks they should be practising more, not matter how much they actually practice. As a beginner you will do progress even if you just spen 15 minutes at the piano a day. It's more important to practice daily and efficiently, then to praactice for long sessions at a time. As the music gets harder, you need more time to work through it and it is logical that you also practice more. So you need to find a balance that feels ok to you. And often we have other comittments that limit the time available. One hour should get you far, acording to me. If you need more time, you will notice it and probably add more time naturally. If you have a teacher you can always discuss it with them too.

One way to make the sessions feel shorter and more focused, if you practice as much as an hour, is to take short breaks, and maybe divide the practice into 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes in the evening or similar.



Nothing is accomplished without enthusiasm. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#1499735 - 08/20/10 06:17 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: Jose Hidalgo]  
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TrapperJohn Offline
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TrapperJohn  Offline
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Originally Posted by Jose Hidalgo
As a beginner with the piano I have 2 issues in my mind:

I am anxious to get to a certain level
I also want to enjoy life and not be a slave of the piano

Context:
I have to work from 7am to 6pm, in my 30s and with a girlfriend

One hour per day may be something possible and easy to accomplish, but how much is enough ?



If you're anxious to get to any level you've got a problem - it's a long term project and takes much time & hard work over an extended period to get to each level - you must learn to have patience, or frustration will be your constant state of mind, and you will probably end up giving up.

There's a fine line of distinction between "being a slave to the piano" and being seriously dedicated to your piano studies over the long term - it's all a matter of attitude, and one is negative and not helpful, and I'm sure you can figure which is which - stay on the right side of this state-of-mind line.

Girlfriend? If she's a good person - if she's worthy to be your girlfriend - she'll be rational and understanding about the importance of the piano to you and give you both the time and space you need to devote to it. Otherwise kick her miserable butt out the nearest door.

How much is enough? Some would say you can "never get enough", while others would say that "enough is enough", and a few grouchy old cynics would assert that they've "had enough" trying to figure out an answer to this virtually unanswerable question - does this help clear up this question completely? laugh


JF

Last edited by John Frank; 08/20/10 06:18 AM.

Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.
#1499749 - 08/20/10 06:56 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: Jose Hidalgo]  
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EJR Offline
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<<One hour per day may be something possible and easy to accomplish, but how much is enough ?>>

You can achieve a hec of a lot in 1 hours daily practice (or even less). I would not worry to much at the moment about the time.

What is important is consistency and frequency. "A little and often" goes an aweful long way.

You need to "practice smart" though. If I was able to do it all over again my advice would be that Quantity (in terms of pieces studied and learnt) is much more important than Quality. ie. You are better of studying a piece that you can complete in 1 or 2 weeks than harder pieces that may take 1 or 2 months. Ideally you could be working on 2 or 3 pieces daily, but each at different levels. When starting out these pieces will likely be "stepping-stones" that get you up and running, and they will take you to where you want to go.

Also bear in mind, that time invested in the basics such as sight-reading, scales and arpeggios will reap tremendous rewards further down the line.

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#1501044 - 08/22/10 02:27 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: EJR]  
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findingnemo2010 Offline
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if you really wana be good u gota put in alot more time than that..i know its hard to find time causse i have the same problem...but the more time u put in the better...id say like 8 hrs a day..i know its hard io should be putting more time into it but its hard when u got other stuiff goin on


music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
#1501050 - 08/22/10 02:36 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: findingnemo2010]  
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rocket88 Offline
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Quote
Jose
I am anxious to get to a certain level


The absolute fastest way is to have a good teacher / coach leading you along the path.

Also, make it a quest to learn how to practice smart...practicing is a skill all by itself.

A great teacher will teach you how to practice in the most efficient way for you, taking into consideration how your mind works, how you learn, and what your time constraints are.

Regardless, it takes a lot of time to learn to play the piano well. If it didn't, everyone would play well.


Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.
#1501476 - 08/23/10 09:32 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: rocket88]  
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samasap Offline
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I think if its something you really want to do then you will find enough time. And from your comments above about how long to practice - i think an hour is plenty for you, especially as a beginner and if you have more time and want to play then to do so!

If you practice an hour each day 7 days a week - that is very dedicated, and you should be able to attain a high level of playing ability within a few years!

GOOD LUCK!!! smile

#1502281 - 08/24/10 11:31 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: samasap]  
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MusiciansWay Offline
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MusiciansWay  Offline
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Jose - In addition to the excellent advice already offered, you might want to consider doing some mental practice for short periods throughout the day.

For more info, see my post on The Musician's Way Blog titled "Mental Imaging" - http://musiciansway.com/blog/?p=2749

Good luck, and enjoy! Gerald


Gerald Klickstein
Professor of Music, UNC School of the Arts
Author of The Musician's Way: A Guide to Practice, Performance, and Wellness (Oxford)
www.MusiciansWay.com
http://musiciansway.com/blog
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#1502291 - 08/24/10 11:39 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: MusiciansWay]  
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jotur Offline
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Dear MusiciansWay,

You have a very nice blog. And it's free. But it's also a front for your book.

So while I find you knowledgeable, *I* find your persistent flogging reference to your blog/book to be really annoying, and, for me, it undermines the sincerity of your postings, since every. single. post. includes it. Like the whole point of all your posts is, really, just to get publicity for your blog, and therefore your book. Isn't your signature enough?

Just me, of course. Others may differ smile

Cathy


Cathy
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Practice what you suck at - anonymous
#1502309 - 08/24/10 11:58 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: jotur]  
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re promo of the book/course: +1
Yes, there will be some promo; but I agree the line has been crossed.

Last edited by elecmuse3; 08/24/10 12:01 PM.

Terry@cincyrockers.com
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#1502310 - 08/24/10 11:59 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: jotur]  
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Wizard of Oz Offline
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Everyone's hawking something on these forums, that's life.

To the guy who said to practice more, like 8 hours/day that is a joke! No one can practice that long and not be burned out.

The guy has a full time job and a life. 1 hour/day is fine.

Set specific goals. You didn't say what you are learning and what you like.

#1502314 - 08/24/10 12:05 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: Wizard of Oz]  
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Wizard of Oz Offline
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btw, I took a quick browse at that guy's blog, useless stuff. No real musical info at all, reads like a Tony Robbin's for musicians! The guy is just a salesman.

#1502318 - 08/24/10 12:09 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: Wizard of Oz]  
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AlexKerr Offline
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The amount of time is completely irrelevant. 15 mins of good quality practice is better than 2 hours of practicing wrong (or any amount for that matter) or just 'playing' the pieces.

First understand how to practice. How are you going to make sure you DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME. Biggest mistake is going back to the start when you play something wrong. No, digest the problem (small sections, slowly is the answer).

If you want more help this goes into more detail how to teach yourself piano

Happy to answer any questions. Good luck in your quest.



Visit my site if you want to read more quality information on playing the piano and teaching yourself the piano.

Learn to Play the Piano
#1502323 - 08/24/10 12:15 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: AlexKerr]  
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Wizard of Oz Offline
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Wizard of Oz  Offline
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AlexKerr stop spamming!

#1502363 - 08/24/10 12:55 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: Wizard of Oz]  
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MusiciansWay Offline
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MusiciansWay  Offline
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North Carolina, USA
Cathy, elecmuse, and Oz:

Thanks for the feedback. I'll tone it down.

#1502407 - 08/24/10 01:58 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: MusiciansWay]  
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jotur Offline
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jotur  Offline
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Thank you smile

You *can*, by forum rules, have the links in your signature.

Cathy

Last edited by jotur; 08/24/10 01:59 PM.

Cathy
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Practice what you suck at - anonymous
#1502434 - 08/24/10 02:41 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: jotur]  
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I think that playing one hour a day is plenty of time, as long as it is productive. You just have to make sure that you are focused.

Plan out what you are going to do for the day, then do it.

Hope that helps!

#1502475 - 08/24/10 04:12 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: twigman1200]  
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bluekeys Offline
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I count four posters on this thread with links to piano course material for sale. A fifth offers piano restoration services, but that's not relevant to the OP's question, so I'll give him/her a pass.

On the one hand, it's nice that people who believe they have sufficient expertise to sell their knowledge willingly give bits of it here free; on the other hand, I have to consider anything they say in the same light as TV infomercials. No, I didn't know new Wonder-Clean can get my shirts 5 times whiter. Now can I have back the 60 seconds of my life I wasted learning that?

I think people posting to an adult beginner forum mostly want to hear what other adult beginners have to say.

To that end, Jose, I would say 30-60 minutes a day is enough to get you started, but not enough to excel over time. Given that your other two time commitments are, in short, money and sex, you might find it hard to compromise either of them just to work in a few more scales every day. If you think you might get a job with decent hours some day, or marry said girlfriend so you can begin to ignore her a greater percentage of the time, then by all means get started learning the piano. Just know that if you get bitten by the piano bug it's going to demand more and more of your time.

Further, in the spirit of this thread, I will happily sell you all the information I feel like providing about my piano method, which has been proven to work (sort of) on one 54-year-old ex-drunk with tinnitus. Just send a credit card number, blank check, and your social security number to me@iwantyourmoney.com.


#1502489 - 08/24/10 04:30 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: bluekeys]  
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jotur Offline
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jotur  Offline
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Originally Posted by bluekeys
On the one hand, it's nice that people who believe they have sufficient expertise to sell their knowledge willingly give bits of it here free; on the other hand, I have to consider anything they say in the same light as TV infomercials. No, I didn't know new Wonder-Clean can get my shirts 5 times whiter. Now can I have back the 60 seconds of my life I wasted learning that?

I think people posting to an adult beginner forum mostly want to hear what other adult beginners have to say.


+1

smile

Cathy


Cathy
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Practice what you suck at - anonymous
#1502496 - 08/24/10 04:37 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: jotur]  
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tangleweeds Offline

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And I'm still rolling around on the floor laughing. Go bluekeys!


Please step aside. You're standing in your own way.
#1502602 - 08/24/10 07:55 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: tangleweeds]  
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FormerFF Offline
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It's been my observation that an hour a day will eventually get an adult beginner of moderate talent to the late intermediate or possibly the early advanced level. I'll also say that it is my personal experience that for a new player an hour a day is great and that you will progress rapidly.

I understand that there are people in this world who can self teach. I'm sure I'm not one of them. If you are anxious to get to a certain lever as quickly as possible, the second most important thing is that you find a good teacher. The most important thing is a willingness to confront any weaknesses in your technique and to work on them until they are no longer weaknesses. That is where your teacher comes in. My definition of a good teacher is one who observes your playing and suggests ways for you to practice more effectively, and assigns you exercises and pieces to help you improve the weakest parts of your technique.

A teacher, by him or herself, can't teach you anything. He or she can show you the most effective way for you to learn the piano. It's ultimately up to you to do the learning, your teacher can't do that for you.

I personally don't think there are any shortcuts to learning piano. It is a complex skill that isn't native to the human race. Having said that, I also believe that almost anyone can learn to play at a level that is personally satisfying.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to sell, no blog to promote, and no method to recommend. I'm just a true adult beginner who'd like to learn piano.


Piano self teaching on and off from 2002-2008. Took piano instruction from Nov 2008- Feb 2011. Took guitar instruction Feb 2011-Jul 2013. Can't play either. Living, breathing proof some people aren't cut out to make music.
#1503611 - 08/26/10 11:34 AM Re: How much is enough [Re: FormerFF]  
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How To Practice Offline
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How To Practice  Offline
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What level is it you want to get to?

Can you tell us anything else about what you want to achieve?

These will directly impact how much/how quickly you need to do things.


Mike Saville
How To Practice
#1503765 - 08/26/10 04:49 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: How To Practice]  
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Bonnie Woodruff Offline
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This European method I have, which I have taught for over 25 years is the fastest way to advanced levels, and the most fun way to get there. I was gifted this piano system of learning by a great concert artist from Europe, whom I studied with for 6 years. It is now a self-study with visual/audio connected on the pages and a DVD video too.
If one uses this type of study, 30 minutes a day in a 5-day week, you will be at levels 3-5/6 in 6 months. One hour practice a day (30 minutes on technique) in 5-day week, you can be in advanced levels in 6 months. It is a complete educational system, like the great masters learned and taught.


Dr. Bonnie Woodruff, PhD, Music Education
Author of 17 Piano Books PDF with visual/audio: Bon's Way Fastrak Long Distance Piano Educational System
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/drbonniejw3
Albums: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/drbonniejw2
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/drbonniejw
#1503770 - 08/26/10 05:03 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: Bonnie Woodruff]  
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eweiss Offline
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European method huh? Weird. I was taught by this guy...



He's a real stickler for technique. smile


Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com
#1503777 - 08/26/10 05:12 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: How To Practice]  
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Jose Hidalgo Offline
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Originally Posted by How To Practice
What level is it you want to get to?

Can you tell us anything else about what you want to achieve?

These will directly impact how much/how quickly you need to do things.


Well, I love music, I enjoy playing popular songs, but I am really aiming at for example Chopin's Nocturnes. I know there is a lot of music in between, like easy classical pieces but I want to get to an advance level playing and also be able to improvise & compose.

Too much to ask for 1h a day ?, how many years will it take !?

#1503779 - 08/26/10 05:14 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: Bonnie Woodruff]  
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Jose Hidalgo Offline
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Originally Posted by Bonnie Woodruff
This European method I have, which I have taught for over 25 years is the fastest way to advanced levels, and the most fun way to get there. ......


So Bonnie, the only thing missing is the link to the method

#1503781 - 08/26/10 05:15 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: Bonnie Woodruff]  
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TrapperJohn Offline
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Originally Posted by Bonnie Woodruff
This European method I have, which I have taught for over 25 years is the fastest way to advanced levels...


Even in the unlikely event that this is true, the word "fastest" as used in this context is highly misleading - there is nothing actually fast about getting to advanced levels - it happens gradually and sputteringly over a very extended period of time measured in years - the term "fastest" seems totally irrelevant and assinine here - this is roughly about the same as saying that the "fastest" way to watch grass grow...or the opposite of saying the fastest way to a quick buck...

Originally Posted by Bonnie Woodruff
...and the most fun way to get there.


If one considers years of intense hard work "fun"...could it be better than sex even?

JF



Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.
#1503785 - 08/26/10 05:24 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: TrapperJohn]  
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frida11 Offline
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If you want to play classical music, having a good teacher is imperative. A good teacher will not only know what you must do, but will be able to guide you toward efficient and effective practice techniques.

The only way to know how fast you will advance is to start! Unless you are very unusually gifted, I'd expect you to spend 1-3 years at this before making an assessment.

It also depends on what you mean by "playing Chopin's nocturnes." You may be able to master the notes of some of the nocturnes within 1-2 years (that would be fairly remarkable), but to have the control to play them well would most likely take 5-7 years of playing for 1 hour/day.


#1503934 - 08/26/10 09:24 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: frida11]  
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Jose Hidalgo Offline
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cool,

I have a great teacher, the best in the country I am sure, since I live in Costa Rica, smile

Starting date was Feb. and this is what I am playing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6BfFn9BoJU

Well, I have been playing guitar for something like 15 years or so, I think I'll be playing piano for a long time too.

frida11 I will let you know when I post my first nocturne wink

#1503953 - 08/26/10 09:55 PM Re: How much is enough [Re: Jose Hidalgo]  
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R0B Offline
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R0B  Offline
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Originally Posted by Jose Hidalgo
Originally Posted by Bonnie Woodruff
This European method I have, which I have taught for over 25 years is the fastest way to advanced levels, and the most fun way to get there. ......


So Bonnie, the only thing missing is the link to the method


I believe it is available from CDBaby for $150 eek

Perhaps Bonnie will correct me if I am in error.

As you were! The link has arrived laugh

Last edited by R0B; 08/27/10 12:50 AM.

Rob
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