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#1496835 - 08/15/10 11:54 PM Question regarding Chopin Black key etude  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 76
Mochomu Offline
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Mochomu  Offline
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SF Bay Area, CA
Hello Experts,

I started reading Chopin Op10-5, and I run into this. In Measure 31, the top note in the last chord on the left hand, is that an F or F flat? F has a flat earlier in the measure, and has a natural in the last chord according to the Salabert editon by Cortot. This change it to a major chord. But I have another edition from Schirmer's Sibrary, which doesn't have a natural on that note, which makes it a minor. Both sounds fine when you play it at the suggested tempo, but it changes the mood slightly.

When I checked editions available online, I see both versions.
Could anyone tell me which version is considered correct?

Thank you.


Current project:
Chopin Scherzo No.1
Chopin Etude OP.25 No.12


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#1496838 - 08/16/10 12:06 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: Mochomu]  
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Damon Offline
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Damon  Offline
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laugh I can tell you what I consider correct and no consensus will change my mind. F!

(in other words, that's what I've been playing for years)

#1496851 - 08/16/10 12:58 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: Mochomu]  
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ChopinAddict Offline
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Land of the never-ending music
Checking Chopin's First Editions Online, this is the passage in question:

[Linked Image]

This is from a previous passage on the same page:
[Linked Image]

You can see he repeats accidentals on the same note in the same measure in other instances, probably because of the chord (so both notes have the same accidental), like the double B flat or the C sharp.

I consulted Bailie, but didn't find any remarks concerning measure #31... Theoretically it should be a flat if he doesn't put the natural, but I haven't played this etude yet. Are there no editorial notes next to the natural (in the editions that consider the natural correct)?



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


#1496858 - 08/16/10 01:11 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: ChopinAddict]  
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beet31425 Offline
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beet31425  Offline
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I've learned here that it can be hard to get a definitive answer for this sort of thing, especially with Chopin.

My Paderewski edition has an F natural for that second chord. In the commentary, he writes (paraphrasing here):

In the manuscript, original French edition and original German edition there is no natural sign before the F of the second chord of the measure. Bulow and Klindworth have accepted this version (with the Fb). However, it is very probable that the natural was omitted inadvertently. The key of this passage (Db) and the chromatic progression Fb - F - Gb both support the F natural. This is why we have followed Mikuli's version.


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
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#1496860 - 08/16/10 01:19 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: ChopinAddict]  
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wr Offline
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wr  Offline
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Badura-Skoda's urtext gives it as F flat, although there's a footnote saying that Mikuli and many later editions have an F natural.

The Paderewski edition gives it as F natural (taking it from Mikuli), in spite of the fact that neither the manuscript nor the first editions show a natural sign there. Their reasoning is that "it was very probable that the natural was omitted inadvertently" and they think it makes sense harmonically.



#1496901 - 08/16/10 04:29 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: wr]  
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ChopinAddict Offline
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ChopinAddict  Offline
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Land of the never-ending music
Thank you for the information, beet31425 and wr.



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


#1497109 - 08/16/10 01:18 PM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: ChopinAddict]  
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Mochomu Offline
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Mochomu  Offline
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SF Bay Area, CA
Thank you everyone for informations and suggestions.

I feel the argument given in the Paderwski edition is convincing. I will use the F natural version.

Thank you.


Current project:
Chopin Scherzo No.1
Chopin Etude OP.25 No.12



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