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Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149540
04/12/05 04:52 PM
04/12/05 04:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,770
Hamilton Twp, NJ
curry Offline
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Hamilton Twp, NJ
Captain_J, everything sold prior to November 2001 is not coverd by Gibson.


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358
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Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149541
04/12/05 05:19 PM
04/12/05 05:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,431
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Not hoping to disappoint anyone here, but at least from the *Canadian West Coast experience*, the price stated would be impossible for us to get.

We had the exact same model here on consignment for over one year and were only asking around $ 20,000

We threw the [garbage...] hammers out and had a new set of custom Ables flown in from Germany.

The geometry in the action was always a nightmare as well: there were way too many weights in the bass to do a real good touch-weight regulation job.

Renner stack on Baldwins ill-designed keys: poor match,sorry!

Sound was *good*, but never really *great* and certainly not *refined* for a piano that size.

The owner eventually did sell it for Can $20,000 himself and all I learned in the process is to never take another one on trade or consignment again.

Ever. frown

norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149542
04/12/05 05:29 PM
04/12/05 05:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 352
Piano Peddler Offline
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Craig Smith
aka "Piano Peddler"
Veteran industry professional
and keyboard musician
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149543
04/12/05 05:41 PM
04/12/05 05:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 352
Piano Peddler Offline
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Craig Smith
aka "Piano Peddler"
Veteran industry professional
and keyboard musician
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149544
04/12/05 06:22 PM
04/12/05 06:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 37
Midwest
C
Captain_J Offline
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Midwest
Quote
Originally posted by curry:
Captain_J, everything sold prior to November 2001 is not covered by Gibson.
Curry -

I agree that everything sold prior to Nov. 2001 is only covered on a case by case basis by Gibson. However, if a piano was produced pre-Gibson (be it 2001, 1999, etc.) and was not sold as new until after Gibson purchased Baldwin's assets (i.e. sold 2002-2005) then it will receive a 25yr. parts/10 yr. labor warranty if sold from an authorized Baldwin dealer.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is how it was explained to me from my dealer as well as Baldwin/Gibson customer service.

Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149545
04/12/05 06:26 PM
04/12/05 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,770
Hamilton Twp, NJ
curry Offline
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Hamilton Twp, NJ
Captain, you were told the truth. Only new pianos the dealer had in his store after Gibson took over were covered.


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149546
04/12/05 06:44 PM
04/12/05 06:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 37
Midwest
C
Captain_J Offline
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Midwest
Norbert -

I am surprised by your comments on the Baldwin SF-10 that you had in on consignment. It must have been very old or in very poor condition (compared to the original posters 1999 model). If I could have found a like new in excellent shape SF-10 for $20K Canadian during my search I would have been thrilled.

I actually played a SF-10 during my search on the same day as an Estonia 190 and (imo) thought the SF-10 was the superior instrument. I guess my tastes don't always follow the current trend....

Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149547
04/12/05 07:40 PM
04/12/05 07:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,431
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Surrey, B.C.
There nothing wrong with your observation:
for certain type of music [Boogie... wink ]:
I totally agree with you!

The piano we had here was exactly 10 years old.

Personally I always liked the bigger Baldwins:
the 9' has always been a GREAT piano and one of my own favourites!

This particualar one,however, just didn't seem to cut it - especially when playing it for extended periods of time.

It would be a joke, if a good 7' grand wouldn't be able to *take on* a smaller grand. Fact of the matter, however, is that the customer traded it against a 6'1 Sauter.

Wishing all Baldwin owners here the very best and certainly much joy with their own intruments! smile

norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149548
04/12/05 08:07 PM
04/12/05 08:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,195
Axtremus Offline
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Axtremus  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,195
Quote
Piano Peddler wrote:

"If your friend had bought a 1999 Steinway B for $34K, assuming it had not been in a fire or flood, everyone on this forum would be congratulating you on an exceptional deal. The SF10 is absolutely equal in quality, despite the corporate problems and transition that Baldwin has been through."
Could be, and a valid point at that, but quality does not by itself translate to market price. I think Hondas are higher quality cars than Mercedes, but the market values Mercedes at higher prices anyway.

Quote
Piano Peddler wrote:

"Does anyone know if the Burgett brothers are honoring warranty claims on Mason & Hamlin pianos built prior to 1995? Of course, Steinway warranties are only five years. Any concert quality piano is worth more based on its design elements as a musical instrument, not what the corporate policies of the manufacturer happen to be."
Good point, fair comparisons. I am myself curious about M&H's warranty policy at the time soon after the Burgett buy-out. Certainly a fair point disassociating corporate policy from piano pricing.

But I am not convinced that the market values "design elements as a musical instrument" when determining prices (eventhough I think that philosophy sounds very good and I like it). If nothing else, we often hear claims/sales pitches that goes like this: "This piano has such-and-such design elements also used in pianos twice its price but this piano can be sold cheap for this-and-that reasons." These claims/sales pitches contradict the assertion that pianos are to be priced by "design elements as a musical instrument."

Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149549
04/12/05 08:23 PM
04/12/05 08:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,431
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Ax:

"Hondas better than Mercedes"?

All across the board? wink

[Good this isn't a car Forum.... laugh ]

norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149550
04/12/05 08:32 PM
04/12/05 08:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 37
Midwest
C
Captain_J Offline
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Midwest
Thanks for the reply Norbert -

I also like the Sauter pianos very much, but the trade decision of your customer is still very curious to me. I have always thought that Sauters (like the Baldwins) have more of the full "American" sound unlike the typical "European" sound. Therefore, this customer was trading down from a 7' to a 6"1". I have heard that Sauters have a very fast action, but I thought the SF-10 had a full Renner action. Thus, to trade to a smaller, similar (American) sounding piano with close to equivalent actions is a mystery to me. That SF-10 must have really been the odd lemon of the group. I congratulate you on the sell of the Sauter and it appears your reputation of doing exceptional prep work is not unfounded.

By the way, although it may appear obvious, I am partial to the full "American" sound for my preferred genre of Jazz, etc. Although I also enjoy classical music, if it were my passion my preference of piano brands would probably be very different.

Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149551
04/13/05 08:18 AM
04/13/05 08:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 400
Florida
MaryAnna Offline
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MaryAnna  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 400
Florida
I saw an SF-10 of approximately the same vintage (2001, I think) last summer when I was piano shopping. In fact it was sitting right next to the Yamaha C7 that I eventually bought. Considering that the next biggest piano in the store was a C3, they fairly well dominated the room.

It was left over from when the store had been a Baldwin dealership. It was "new", having never been sold but, because of the Gibson episode, was not covered under any warranty. They wanted $25,000 for it, which they said was not negotiable, but I never tried to negotiate, so I can't speak to whether that was actually true. Compared to the C7, I found its tone harsh--not bright, but unpleasant to my ears--and its action heavy, so I didn't pursue the opportunity. Though I admit that it did seem like a great opportunity for someone with different tastes.

It's still on the floor by the way, so if anybody is intrigued by a Tier 1 7-footer for $25,000, I'll point you in its direction.


Mary Anna Evans
Author of the Faye Longchamp mysteries
http://www.maryannaevans.com
Blogging at maryannaevans@blogspot.com
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149552
04/14/05 08:21 PM
04/14/05 08:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 352
Piano Peddler Offline
Full Member
Piano Peddler  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 352


Craig Smith
aka "Piano Peddler"
Veteran industry professional
and keyboard musician
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149553
04/14/05 10:32 PM
04/14/05 10:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,431
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Norbert  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,431
Surrey, B.C.
Captain:

The customer has since traded his 6' Sauter to the larger model Omega 7'4.

He since thinks he died and is in heaven... wink

Initially he wanted to trade his 7' Baldwin to a 5'6 Estonia but I told him he was n.....

You see, some customers do listen to me..... laugh

norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149554
12/04/05 08:02 PM
12/04/05 08:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3
New York
D
docroy Offline
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docroy  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3
New York
I was in touch with Baldwin about the problematic overtones, buzzing and ringing from my Artist Grand. The piano had been replaced by my dealer 2 times in 1999 and 2000. It started getting overwhelming again recently and I found out about my warranty going up in smoke with the purchase by Gibson. I am so disgusted with the company and this model. I hope to have my dealer help me take care of this.

Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149555
12/04/05 08:31 PM
12/04/05 08:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,770
Hamilton Twp, NJ
curry Offline
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curry  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,770
Hamilton Twp, NJ
docroy, it sounds like you bought the SF from a NYC dealer known for not prepping their pianos before delivery. What you need is a great tech to tweak it. I had a 2000 SF, it was an ok piano until I really tweaked it out. After that it was a really sweet piano.


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149556
12/04/05 09:11 PM
12/04/05 09:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3
New York
D
docroy Offline
Junior Member
docroy  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3
New York
Curry,
The dealer is Frank and Camilles and the piano is model M1. The lowest Bb, B and C notes have a screaming squeal tone that overrides the fundamental and this has occurred on all 3 pianos. The felt was poked and squeezed to no avail, lots of tweaking. F and F# above middle C buzz incessantly during the summer despite a damp chaser. Tom Malone, head of technical support at Baldwin said these are not unheard of problem, but didn't say that there is an absolute fix. He told me about my lack of warranty. Dave Tabachnick, my tech, whose wife Lynda is a manager at F and C's, has worked very hard to fix the problems, but has been very frustrated as well. I appreciate any suggestions that you have!
Roy

Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149557
12/04/05 09:23 PM
12/04/05 09:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,770
Hamilton Twp, NJ
curry Offline
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curry  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,770
Hamilton Twp, NJ
First, the lowest bass notes you mention more than likely, had too many twists put in them when strung in the factory. This is common. Your tech can check for this, and correct it if necessary.
As for the buzzing on the f,f#, could you describe this in more detail. Only happens during the summer. What type of buzz? String buzz, or metallic buzz? This could be poorly regulated damper wires slightly touching the strings. Also could be a hammer mating/string seating issue.


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358
Re: Baldwin Artist Grand 7ft #149558
12/04/05 09:45 PM
12/04/05 09:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3
New York
D
docroy Offline
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docroy  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3
New York
Curry,
Tom sent new strings for the affected notes about 2 years ago. The new strings produced the same squeal. Do you think the stock of strings at Baldwin were too twisted. Should I request some more?
The buzz: it sounds like a wooden or paper buzzy sound. Dave tightened every screw and nut he could find on the piano and did the plier squeeze technique on the felt hammers. It helped immensely, but it is still there. Because it happens more intensely in the summer, we thought it may be relieved by the dry heat (offset a bit by the damp chaser of course). Is F and C's the retailer you were referring to?
Thanks again for addressing this issue!
Roy

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