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#1490334 - 08/07/10 05:24 PM Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females?  
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I saw a similar thread to this which had a different lineup previously so I'll keep this brief by saying it was interesting but refreshing to see a reader poll in BBC Music magazine voting the Russian at no1 of greatest C20th pianists (the usual names like Horowitz and Rubenstein were there also).
I thought about it and felt there wasn't a female poll so here is my list of greatest females pianists:

1.Alicia de La Rocha
2.Marta Argerich
3.Angela Hewitt
4.Annie Fischer
5.Gina Bachauer
6.Imogen Cooper

A friend suggested I add Tori Amos to the list. Do you agree? Maybe you have a differenct list


Visit http://www.grademusicworld.com for all topics music related from preparing for exams to getting a job in the music industry
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#1490339 - 08/07/10 05:38 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: grademusictutors]  
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Maria Yudina? I haven't heard much from her, but she's apparently famous back in Russia.


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#1490344 - 08/07/10 05:44 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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not somewhere over the rainbow
Uchida



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1490345 - 08/07/10 05:45 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Pogorelich.]  
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Maria Joao Pires, her Mozart is divine..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tVvu0l54kQ&feature=related

Last edited by bplary1300; 08/07/10 05:46 PM.


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#1490360 - 08/07/10 06:08 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: bplary1300]  
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How could Guiomar Novaes be omitted? Undoubtedly equal to any of those in the list and surpasses most.

#1490365 - 08/07/10 06:14 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Varcon]  
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Dorothy Donegan. I heard her play Rachmaninoff and Mendelssohn in the same piece, while playing circles around another pianist.


Semipro Tech
#1490398 - 08/07/10 06:49 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: BDB]  
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Some favourites:

Novaes
Myra Hess
Monique de la Bruchollerie
Yvonne Lefébure
Elly Ney
Rosita Renard
Jeanne Marie-Darre
Annie Fischer
Magda Taliaferro
Clara Haskil
Fannie Davies
Madeleine de Valmalete
Moura Lympany
Marcelle Meyer

Wish we had recordings of Teresa Carreño-aside from the piano rolls-she must have been something else.


"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
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#1490439 - 08/07/10 07:44 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Thracozaag]  
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Varcon Offline
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And, Koji, there are a host of others. Did you ever hear Ida Krehm? Wow!!!

#1490448 - 08/07/10 07:53 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Varcon]  
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Yes, as I recall, she was the first female pianist to record significant amounts of Scriabin.


"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/
#1490454 - 08/07/10 07:59 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Varcon]  
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Clara Haskil
Marguerite Long
Eliso Virsaladze (if you have never heard of her, please check some of her UT clips. Magnificent. She was Berezovsky's teahcer also I think)
Rosalyn Tureck
Maria Tipo
The list is long indeed

#1490475 - 08/07/10 08:30 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Maria Yudina? I haven't heard much from her, but she's apparently famous back in Russia.


Yudina is fabulous. I really like her Schubert, particularly D 960.



Last edited by Catenaires; 08/07/10 08:52 PM.
#1490476 - 08/07/10 08:32 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Andromaque]  
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Who has the best technique?

#1490485 - 08/07/10 08:42 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Thracozaag]  
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Originally Posted by Thracozaag
Some favourites:

Novaes
Myra Hess
Monique de la Bruchollerie
Yvonne Lefébure
Elly Ney
Rosita Renard
Jeanne Marie-Darre
Annie Fischer
Magda Taliaferro
Clara Haskil
Fannie Davies
Madeleine de Valmalete
Moura Lympany
Marcelle Meyer

Wish we had recordings of Teresa Carreño-aside from the piano rolls-she must have been something else.


I agree, Teresa Carreño must have been a force to reckon with. What I would give to hear her in the concertos she was so famous for: Rubinstein 4, MacDowell 2, Beethoven 5.

But Koji, my good mate, you are without a doubt one of the finest and most knowledgeable pianists on this board, but you have always consistently turned a deaf ear to anything concerning Martha Argerich. What is she doing wrong for you? I think that is a fair enough question.

Your list above has many stellar names, and with the exception of Bruchollerie, Renard, Valmalete and Meyer, I have heard recordings of them all. Are you seriously going to rate, say, Novaes (a satisfyingly quiet pianist), Lefébure, Ney (that's a rather politically sore spot with me, and rather sloppy technically), Darre (a sledgehammer of a pianist), Fischer (you have seen her Liszt Eb on YouTube?), Haskil (unsurpassed in only Mozart and Beethoven's 3rd), Davies (huh?) and Lympany above Argerich?

Forgive me, I just don't understand this. shocked

You could have included Yvonne Loriod, Ruth Laredo, Lilian Kallir, Seta Tanyel, Idil Biret, Constance Keene, Ursula Oppens. All of them -IMO- are in a sense finer and more vibrant pianists than most of the ones on your list.

For all that, I would be curious to hear Fannie Bloomfield Zeisler, Annette Essipoff, Olga Samaroff, Sophie Mentner. But I seriously doubt they would take on Argerich today. I don't think Carreño could either, at least from what I have read.

As for Clara and her star pupil, Adelina de Lara, well the less said. And of course -this always gets me into trouble with the women here- I think Clara would never rate a footnote today without the surname she was fortunate enough to appropriate.




Jason
#1490513 - 08/07/10 09:30 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: argerichfan]  
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Jason
I never understood your beef with Clara. Obviously we do not know what she sounded like but her skills are very well documented, and she was already concertizing and famous before she married Robert. SHe continued to be revered as a great artist and to receive great reviews well after his death!!
But your antipathy towards her pales in comparison to the pure hatred that Steven Isserlis reserves for her. He never forgave her burning of Schumann's late music compositions, which she thought were unbecoming of his genius. For all we know she may have been right. After all, she was his biggest champion. At her deathbed, she is said to have asked someone to play for her one of Robert's Romanze.

#1490532 - 08/07/10 10:15 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Andromaque]  
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Originally Posted by Andromaque
Jason
I never understood your beef with Clara.

She was a very mean spirited woman. She did everything possible to undermine the relationship of one of her lesbian daughters -this is documented- she constantly meddled in the affairs of her other children -this is also documented- she had no more talent as a composer than any of the other mediocre guys writing at the same time (that's obvious), she never lost an opportunity to denigrate Liszt, she utterly misunderstood everything about Wagner, and she never taught anyone important. She was just Clara.

Of course it is received wisdom that Robert's love for Clara produced some of the greatest works ever for piano, but I'm not terribly convinced that without Clara those works would never have seen the light of day.

And I hasten to add: IMO!

smokin



Jason
#1490553 - 08/07/10 10:56 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: argerichfan]  
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Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Jason
I never understood your beef with Clara.

She was a very mean spirited woman. She did everything possible to undermine the relationship of one of her lesbian daughters -this is documented- she constantly meddled in the affairs of her other children -this is also documented- she had no more talent as a composer than any of the other mediocre guys writing at the same time (that's obvious), she never lost an opportunity to denigrate Liszt, she utterly misunderstood everything about Wagner, and she never taught anyone important. She was just Clara.

Of course it is received wisdom that Robert's love for Clara produced some of the greatest works ever for piano, but I'm not terribly convinced that without Clara those works would never have seen the light of day.

And I hasten to add: IMO!

smokin



While all of what you've written here is true (as you say it's all well documented), none of it makes her any more, or less a pianist. You could dig up a lot of dirt on practically every composer I can think of, but none of that dirt makes them any more, or less a composer.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

#1490573 - 08/07/10 11:21 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: stores]  
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Yudina was incredible. Lili Kraus as well.
While some of Novaes' recordings indeed showed enormous potential, it is my opinion that she never really fufilled that potential. Many of her recordings are...patchy at best.
Same thing with Biret-a FEW of her 100,000+ recordings are exquisite. Many of her recordings, imo, sound like she simply didn't learn the pieces well enough to perform. And every live recording of hers I've heard was truly GHASTLY. Perhaps if she played only about 10% of the repertoire she claims to command.....
There are a couple of girls who are hot hot hot right now... Yuja Wang, Claire Huangci, Sofya Gulyak, and so many others... Ingrid Fliter isn't too bad either. Obviously these young types have a long way to go before they belong in the 'best female pianists of the 20th century' list.
If I had to choose ONE female pianist as my favourite, it would have to be Yudina.

*flamesuit on*
I've always struggled to find any appeal in the playing of Hess or Haskil.

I quite like Annie Fischer though. Does anyone here know much about Ann Schein??

As long as Helene Grimaud doesn't make it anywhere NEAR this list...

I know this forum is madly in love with Valentina Lisitsa, but I've never really been able to respond posively to her playing. Even her technique, which garners much praise from some of the less knowlegeable members here, I find less than impressive. Too surfacy a sound. Sure she can burn notes, but the sound??

Olga Kern has impressive chops, but some wacko musical ideas to go along with it.

#1490577 - 08/07/10 11:28 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: JustAnotherPianist]  
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I agree about Helene and Lisitsa, but Kern is one cool piece of s---. Judging by one class I saw and talking to people about it.. Plus I don't mind her playing.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1490579 - 08/07/10 11:29 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: JustAnotherPianist]  
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherPianist

Does anyone here know much about Ann Schein??


Incredible pianist with a gorgeous sound. Also, about the nicest person in the history of the world.


Keith D Kerman
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#1490583 - 08/07/10 11:36 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Keith D Kerman]  
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I'm just listening to her Rach 3 right now (lol here signature piece she's played it over like 70 times). It's just about right. Powerfully expressive. She makes the most out of the incredible textures throughout-very difficult indeed I've played this many times myself. MMMMM ANN SCHEIN YOU RACH.

Anyone heard Martina Filjak (sp?) She's Croatian I believe, and on the way to becoming quite a major star....

#1490584 - 08/07/10 11:37 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: JustAnotherPianist]  
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Oh yeah Kern came to GGS a couple years back didn't she? Who played for her? I hope it was Alex... that boy is a genius.

#1490593 - 08/07/10 11:55 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Pogorelich.]  
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
I agree about Helene and Lisitsa, but Kern is one cool piece of s---. Judging by one class I saw and talking to people about it.. Plus I don't mind her playing.


I also agree. I don't care for the first two, but I love Olga.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

#1490601 - 08/08/10 12:12 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: stores]  
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Judging by the difficulty of her music, Amy Beach must have been a force to be reckoned with.

#1490606 - 08/08/10 12:23 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: argerichfan]  
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Andromaque
Jason
I never understood your beef with Clara.

She was a very mean spirited woman. She did everything possible to undermine the relationship of one of her lesbian daughters -this is documented- she constantly meddled in the affairs of her other children -this is also documented- she had no more talent as a composer than any of the other mediocre guys writing at the same time (that's obvious), she never lost an opportunity to denigrate Liszt, she utterly misunderstood everything about Wagner, and she never taught anyone important. She was just Clara.

Of course it is received wisdom that Robert's love for Clara produced some of the greatest works ever for piano, but I'm not terribly convinced that without Clara those works would never have seen the light of day.

And I hasten to add: IMO!

smokin



Nothing you said negates the fact that she was a formidable pianist, though!

#1490711 - 08/08/10 06:16 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Andromaque]  
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Florencia Raitzin-Legrand. I've no idea where she'd come in the pecking order, but I know that she performed once with the legendary Amadeus String Quartet, so that impressed me as a viola player.

#1490752 - 08/08/10 09:25 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Nigel Keay]  
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Yvonne Loriod, and contemporary younger generation: Gabriela Montero who is a phenomenal pianist and improviser.


Music Teacher (Piano/Theory/Musicianship)
#1490776 - 08/08/10 10:19 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Nigel Keay]  
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Speaking of Cliburn laureates, there was a woman at the 1997 Cliburn who made a huge impression. I haven't heard much of her recently, but she was truly a highlight of that year's competition and deserves mention:

Katia Skanavi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAa5S69Lq-o


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1490789 - 08/08/10 10:47 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Kreisler]  
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One of my favorites is the late Maria Grinberg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rir53pUzD7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU5JzvlKUxY

Olga Kern is one of my favorites, too. I once spoke with her for a while after one of her concerts and she gave me some very helpful tips for how to approach new repertoire.

Marcelle Meyer, mentioned earlier, is another of my favorites.

Just to name a few.

- Silence

#1490872 - 08/08/10 01:47 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Silent Thoughts]  
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Myra Hess and Wanda Landowska.


Semipro Tech
#1490921 - 08/08/10 02:52 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: BDB]  
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Maybe Maria Yudina, Martha Argerich or Valentina Lisitsa, but i think its impossible to say who's the greatest because each interpretaion is subjective and i may enjoy one performance by say, Argerich, but then think her recording of Rach's 3rd not quite so enjoyable, and vice versa with the others. Each performer has their own idiom in terms of interpretation. If that makes sense.


All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.
#1491010 - 08/08/10 04:44 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: TheHappyMoron]  
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It seems to me a little late to be talking about some of these younger female pianists as "greatest" of the 20th Century, no? Don't they still have time to develop and mature further?

Or, if indeed we are talking about the greats of the 20th Century, perhaps the "youngsters" should not be on the list.

Regards,


BruceD
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#1491058 - 08/08/10 05:49 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: BruceD]  
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It's never too late to learn of these people and hear them play.

Or is there no point in that too?



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#1491094 - 08/08/10 06:43 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: BruceD]  
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Originally Posted by BruceD
It seems to me a little late to be talking about some of these younger female pianists as "greatest" of the 20th Century, no? Don't they still have time to develop and mature further?

Or, if indeed we are talking about the greats of the 20th Century, perhaps the "youngsters" should not be on the list.

I think the best solution is to take "20th century" out of the equation. The Music magazine article was called "The 20 Greatest Pianists Ever", with no mention of the century. So the title of this thread seems to be based on a misunderstanding, and is restricting the choices.


(Used to post as SlatterFan)
#1491100 - 08/08/10 06:55 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Julian_]  
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ignore this i posted it in the wrong thread

Last edited by TheCannibalHaddock; 08/08/10 06:59 PM.

All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.
#1491316 - 08/09/10 12:38 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: TheHappyMoron]  
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I have a good memory of Ania Dorfman playing Scumann Opp. 9 and 12. Quite good. How about Tatiana Nikolayeva? She gave the first performance of Shostakovitch's preludes, but I have heard very few of her recordings.

According to Vladimir de Pachmann, Clara Schumann's playing was "awful".



Uncle George

#1491365 - 08/09/10 03:36 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Uncle George]  
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According to Vladimir de Pachmann, Clara Schumann's playing was "awful".



Uncle George [/quote]
Either it was when he heard her play or it was his opinion !


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#1491398 - 08/09/10 05:45 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Derek Hartwell]  
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Nina Simone
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#1491399 - 08/09/10 06:01 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Uncle George]  
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Originally Posted by Uncle George
I have a good memory of Ania Dorfman playing Scumann Opp. 9 and 12. Quite good.

Uncle George

Yes, and her recording of Sauer's Echo de Vienne is fantastic; much more exciting than Sauer's own recording of it.


Mel


"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn
#1491405 - 08/09/10 06:28 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Varcon]  
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Originally Posted by Varcon
How could Guiomar Novaes be omitted? Undoubtedly equal to any of those in the list and surpasses most.


That's exactly what I tought!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXlAZj3WqeY

#1491420 - 08/09/10 07:18 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: deAlmeida]  
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Anne Queffelec, Dubravka Tomsic, and Magda Tagliaferro should be on the list. Maybe Monique Haas, too, but I don't know her playing well enough to say for sure.

#1491562 - 08/09/10 12:26 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: wr]  
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That each of the wonderful established artists bring something to satisfy audiences is a given. Their various attributes undoubtedly bring pleasure and satisfaction to certain styles and genres for which their temperaments are suited.

Some are more versatile in style than others and some 'do it' better than others. Those who 'do it' better are those who rise to the top.

As there are many with great technical equipment, i.e., the facility, endurance, and power and control to play horrendously difficult composition, then there are just as many who will appreciate or denigrate those abilities according to the exposure and training they have had.

For example many tout Rachmaninoff as the greatest but, while he does a wonderful job of playing on the recordings I have of him, I'm not as impressed as I am with others.


If it boils down to who can play the fastest and loudest, then the musicality must suffer. I have some recordings of Argerich and I'm not overly impressed.

Finding a definitive candidate for the position of 'greatest' is perhaps an elusive quest, especially if the seeker wants unanimous agreement of his/her choice.

#1491725 - 08/09/10 03:49 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Varcon]  
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I remember reading Wanda Landowska On Music where she indicates that "even 32nds know moderation". Many of the "greatest" pianists,male and female, should keep this in mind.


<<For example many tout Rachmaninoff as the greatest but, while he does a wonderful job of playing on the recordings I have of him, I'm not as impressed as I am with others.>>

Although Rachmaninoff ability as a virtuoso has never been questioned, many people express reservation about him as an interpreter. Maybe that is why Varcom is not so impressed.


Uncle George



Last edited by Uncle George; 08/09/10 03:52 PM.
#1491790 - 08/09/10 04:39 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Pogorelich.]  
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
It's never too late to learn of these people and hear them play.

Or is there no point in that too?


You missed my point, I think.

I was trying to imply that many of these younger artists I alluded to would hardly be considered great pianists of the 20th century since much of their potential lies in the work that they will do in this century. Many of them, as the 20th century ended, were still students, not yet artists or pianists.

Regards,


BruceD
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#1491855 - 08/09/10 05:30 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: BruceD]  
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With the virtually infallible technique of Josef Hofmann, Rosenthal, Gabrilowitsch, and others, I fail to see that they would not be in the list. The unfortunate part is that most of us were not able to hear them live and the recordings do not necessarily do them justice. There are most likely several with the technical ability to play fast and furiously as well as perhaps with the faintest pianissimo.

Taste and training are so varied that I don't see how any one--Marc Andre Hamelin or others -- can claim or be appointed to the exalted position of Greatest Pianist of all time. From what I know, Liszt already has that sewn up.


Last edited by Varcon; 08/09/10 05:31 PM.
#1491885 - 08/09/10 06:03 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Varcon]  
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but Liszt never played Alkan in such an accomplished way...


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#1491987 - 08/09/10 07:38 PM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: Varcon]  
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Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by Varcon
With the virtually infallible technique of Josef Hofmann, and others, I fail to see that they would not be in the list.





I just saw the list the other day while flipping through the magazine and if memory serves me correctly Hoffmann was on the list (at 19?)



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

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#1493236 - 08/11/10 06:58 AM Re: Greatest Pianist of 20th Century - Rachmaninoff. Females? [Re: stores]  
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Yes, I think Hofmann was in the list.

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