|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
71 members (Abdulrohmanoman, Charles Cohen, accordeur, BWV846, Animisha, benkeys, Anglagard44, 14 invisible),
2,333
guests, and
426
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73 |
This complex piece demands incredible control & touch... do you think it is worth attempting, or even playable, on an upright action?
Wondering if it's worth tackling with an upright, or waiting for the grand (in a few or many years time).
Has anybody played Le Gibet, or any part of Gaspard de la Nuit, on an upright piano?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,741
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,741 |
Gibet will probably be the least of your worries (although yes, piano DOES matter for it too); but the other two are a challenge.. can be unplayable if you don't have decent action. Saying that, I think you should still play it - if you can make it good on a crappy piano, you'll sound great on a good one..
"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,919
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,919 |
It not only can, but should be played on an upright. You can't hang a man lying down.
There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 24,601
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 24,601 |
Issues like that about a piano's action aren't confined to uprights. There are some grands where it's equally an issue, and lots of uprights where it isn't much.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73 |
It not only can, but should be played on an upright. You can't hang a man lying down. Haha Makes sense, I guess it does depend on the individual piano. Mine is a bit on the bright side and even with the soft pedal, an even PP is quite challenging.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,340
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,340 |
if you can't play it on a decent upright, forget about any other instrument, by the way, I think it's the most fearsome of the 3, all the different sounds, and the stretches, and the memory-thing...
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
Ravel never owned a grand piano.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73 |
Ravel never owned a grand piano. I didn't know that - did some searching but couldn't find any info to that effect. I have books with photos of Ravel composing in front of a grand piano. Could you give a reference please?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
I can't remember where I read it personally, but it is mentioned here http://wolfswiki.pbworks.com/Impressionism#MauriceRavelIf I knew how I know everything I know, I'd only be able to know half as much, so I apologise if I can't always cite my sources ;-). Happy to be corrected though of course .
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,340
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,340 |
Ravel neither could play his Gaspard...
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607 |
I'm sure he could bash it out, but he didn't feel confident about performing it. Either way, if he was always composing at an upright piano its unlikely he would write anything that couldn't in theory be accomplished on one. I'm certainly not aware of any moments in his music that require the sostenuto pedal, for example.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73 |
I'm certainly not aware of any moments in his music that require the sostenuto pedal, for example. That's true, and I *do* know for sure that Ravel's piano did not have a sostenuto pedal. It's mentioned in one of my books... I'll hunt it down when I get home tonight and post a reference Ravel neither could play his Gaspard... He couldn't play le Gibet at least... his hands were too small. http://www.maurice-ravel.net/pianorolls.htm
Last edited by HNB; 08/04/10 08:57 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941 |
>>Either way, if he was always composing at an upright piano its unlikely he would write anything that couldn't in theory be accomplished on one.<< I'm not certain this would be generally true. A composer composes in imagination, using the keyboard as a tool. Otherwise how could composers have composed for orchestra while sitting at the keyboard with manuscript paper? It would be possible to compose with the facility of a grand in mind (and the facility and skill of a virtuoso performer in mind too!).
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it. Alex Ross.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395 |
I'm sure he could bash it out, but he didn't feel confident about performing it. Either way, if he was always composing at an upright piano its unlikely he would write anything that couldn't in theory be accomplished on one. I'm certainly not aware of any moments in his music that require the sostenuto pedal, for example. The piano in the study at Ravel's house, now the Ravel Museum, is an Erard grand. It would not be surprising if there is no sostenuto pedal on it, since European pianos of that vintage often don't have one.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,676
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,676 |
Didn't Ravel use Pianoteq?
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9 Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,741
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,741 |
Ravel neither could play his Gaspard... Could he play ANYTHING he wrote? The bastard wrote impossible music ..
"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,061
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,061 |
Pogorelich, I think he could play some of his music... I've heard that there are recordings of him playing the first movement of the Sonatine, and also his Toccata. I also heard that he did play his Le Gibet, but I could be wrong. (I need to look into this more!)
He also wanted to be the soloist in the premiere of his Concerto in G and was practicing Chopin's Etudes for it, but he ended up being the conductor instead I think? And wasn't it the same with his left hand concerto? I read he was practicing the Revolutionary a lot for that one.
I saw Concerto in G performed live, and the program notes said that. I forgot where I read the left hand concerto part...
Urghh I need to read up on this again!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,340
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,340 |
He had an extra pair of hands at hand, by the name of Ricardo Viñes, a name of unbelievable influence in modernday pianotechnique, only, he hardly composed, but he knew everyone..
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 73 |
He also wanted to be the soloist in the premiere of his Concerto in G and was practicing Chopin's Etudes for it, but he ended up being the conductor instead I think? And wasn't it the same with his left hand concerto? I read he was practicing the Revolutionary a lot for that one.
Wikipedia contradicts itself regarding the Left Hand Concerto. It says here that Ravel premiered it but had to use two hands, and Wittgenstein didn't play it until 1933. But it says here that Wittgenstein premiered it in 1932
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395 |
He also wanted to be the soloist in the premiere of his Concerto in G and was practicing Chopin's Etudes for it, but he ended up being the conductor instead I think? And wasn't it the same with his left hand concerto? I read he was practicing the Revolutionary a lot for that one.
Wikipedia contradicts itself regarding the Left Hand Concerto. It says here that Ravel premiered it but had to use two hands, and Wittgenstein didn't play it until 1933. But it says here that Wittgenstein premiered it in 1932 The misleading reference in Wikipedia to Ravel playing the concerto with both hands was to when he played it for Wittgenstein, in private. He went through the solo part with both hands, and then played the orchestral part. Wittgenstein gave the public premiere.
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,405
Posts3,349,434
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|