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Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Brooke Taylor #1481180 07/25/10 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Brooke Taylor
.....Please explain?

Brooke -- I have explained, clearly and fully. If you're not clear on it, just go back over my few posts, especially the first one.

The main thing which IMO is absolutely "unrealistic" is that you're focusing NOW on this very-distant goal; there's just so much that would need to happen between here and there. I don't necessarily mean it's unrealistic that you could eventually get to a point where you could reasonably think of Juilliard, but IMO it's unrealistic and indeed counterproductive to be focusing on it in this way NOW at the expense of focusing on the more real and tangible steps that are right before you.

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
lilylady #1481182 07/25/10 02:18 PM
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You guys really do give great advice. I'm sorry for appearing defensive. I just take a lot of things to heart, and I don't know what else to say, becuase I don't like when people tell me that I need more realistic goals. Every goal is realistic. It just bothers me.. because I'm tired of people telling me I can't do it. I still am very thankful for your advice. I can tell you are all very educated. I need to take things a step at a time. I just want to go there so badly I cannot put into words.

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Mark_C #1481183 07/25/10 02:20 PM
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Dear Mark,

Thank you for explaining. I do understand what you are saying now. I just thought you were telling me that I couldn't get into Juilliard. That it is unrealistic. I have a social problem, it's Aspergers and I don't get a lot of things. Please excuse me. I do jump to conclusions a lot. Sorry. Thank you for your help and your advice. I do, appreciate it.

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Inlanding #1481185 07/25/10 02:22 PM
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Dear Glen,

Thank you so much for your advice. I will be sure to update you! I am playing Prelude in D Major at my teachers church. I will take a video, and send it to you! Thanks again.

- Brooke

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Pogorelich. #1481186 07/25/10 02:23 PM
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Thank you Porgorelich, for your kind words. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me.

- Brooke

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
jazzyprof #1481189 07/25/10 02:24 PM
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Jazzyprof, thank you for telling me this. It opened up my eyes, a bit. The only opinion that matters is mine and my teachers! That is how I will see things from now on. I appreciate you helping me.

- Brooke

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Brooke Taylor #1481191 07/25/10 02:27 PM
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OK.....you've just told us something else that's very important and which I can appreciate.

Clearly you realize that the condition affects how you can understand things. I imagine you realize that it may also affect how you frame things for yourself, and that sometimes it may make you frame things in not the best way. I think that may be involved in how you're focusing on "Juilliard" at this time.

It's great that you're getting involved with piano and that you're doing so well, and it's great that you have such a high ambition. But believe me: It will serve you better if you can divide your aspiration into smaller bites, at least to some extent. Keep the "Juilliard" goal in mind, but:

-- Realize that many many things need to happen between here and there, and you will be far better off if you can focus on those steps rather than focusing so much on the distant goal. "Juilliard" is simply too ABSTRACT right now to be constructive as a current focus.

And.....

-- It may well turn out that "Juilliard" will not be as crucial a thing for you as you're making it out to be right now.

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Mark_C #1481231 07/25/10 03:34 PM
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I've rarely seen such a genuinely serious and concerted effort on the parts of PW members to be helpful and supportive of a member with high aspirations and with some goals that may well be deemed unrealistic for the present.

I hope that they are being received and understood in the spirit in which almost all of them have been offered.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
BruceD #1481269 07/25/10 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
I've rarely seen such a genuinely serious and concerted effort on the parts of PW members to be helpful and supportive of a member with high aspirations and with some goals that may well be deemed unrealistic for the present.

I hope that they are being received and understood in the spirit in which almost all of them have been offered.

Regards,


I think that many times people join a forum already with a question in mind, so it's easy to go ahead and just post that question without thinking it through a whole lot, because it's the internet, he or she will get responses quickly, these people are from all over the world and have various experiences, etc.

This is just in general: part of me thinks she would like to know what it would take to make it to Juilliard (besides money of course): practicing habits; size and difficulty range of repertoire; experience when it comes to listening to music, watching live performances, learning more about music history, theory, composers and their compositions, etc. She hasn't asked it directly, but I'm sort of getting that... it seems like she wants a "Juilliard acceptee" standard to sort of see exactly how hard she needs to work and how much she needs to learn.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong. Am I understanding this correctly, Brooke?

And finally... You may feel some of the responses toward you were negative. But I promise you this: nobody here is out to get you. Nobody here is competing with you. We're all for you. The only people we don't like are the blatant jerks who are mean to others. If you do make it to Juilliard, I'm sure every single one of us here would be tickled pink. And I think all of us here do hope you make it, primarily because a lot of hard work will be involved between now and then, and if you DO work hard and efficiently and make it (or even if you don't), it DEFINITELY will not be time wasted. smile

Last edited by Orange Soda King; 07/25/10 05:00 PM.
Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Brooke Taylor #1481280 07/25/10 05:08 PM
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When I read the book, Romance on Three Legs, about Glenn Gould's long-time admiration and use of a certain concert piano, I also read the afterward in which speculation has it that he may have had Aspbergers. The question is raised not answered. Whether or not you may share this characteristic we must thank you for focusing on piano with your talents. The world will be a better place as a result. Whether you study at Juilliard or another place of learning and inspiration, your talents will be a blessing to the wider community.


Baldwin
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Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Orange Soda King #1481372 07/25/10 07:09 PM
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Dear Ethan,

You said it perfectly. That is exactly how I feel. Thank you! Maybe I will get into Juilliard, but if I don't, then Eastman here I come. I also heard, that Curtis, is harder to get into than Juilliard!

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Orange Soda King #1481385 07/25/10 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
This is just in general: part of me thinks she would like to know what it would take to make it to Juilliard


And that's the problem.

Nobody "makes it" into Juilliard. The faculty select those who get in.

I've written about this elsewhere on the forums - the biggest problem with a goal like "getting into Juilliard" is that it's something you're not in control of. It's a little like saying "I'm going to build a snowman in Houston."

Nobody will tell you it's impossible, because its not. And you'll get a lot of advice - get the carrot and buttons ready, buy a scarf, find a place to build it, etc... But Mother Nature gets a vote, and she doesn't usually send snow to Houston. You can prepare for it, but you can't plan for it.

So that's the bad news - Juilliard gets a vote, and they get to pick between a LOT of students who work hard, have talent, great training, have passion, etc...

The good news is that you prepare for a Juilliard audition in the exact same way you prepare an audition for Mediocre State University - practice, learn, perform, and be the best pianist you can be. There's no secret recipe.

When people ask "what are my chances of getting into Juilliard?", I want to say "If the answer matters, then you're not Juilliard material."

What are you going to do, practice extra hard if we say your chances are slim? You should be practicing extra hard anyway.

And if we say your chances are good, what are you going to do? Slack off? If that's the case, then Juilliard doesn't want you.

There is no crystal ball. Every audition is a risk, and if you're not passionate or daring enough to take that risk, then you're not going to make it as a professional musician, no matter how well you play.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Kreisler #1481393 07/25/10 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kreisler
When people ask "what are my chances of getting into Juilliard?", I want to say "If the answer matters, then you're not Juilliard material."

What are you going to do, practice extra hard if we say your chances are slim? You should be practicing extra hard anyway.

And if we say your chances are good, what are you going to do? Slack off? If that's the case, then Juilliard doesn't want you.


This is about the best answer Brooke will get.

Places like Juilliard are simply schools of continued learning. People who get in to a place like that have gone through a selection window that separates personality as much as current ability. The students who have what it takes also have a personality that values working hard for the sake of working hard and gaining knowledge and ability. That personality type doesn't work just because of the dangling carrot. They work because they are driven to do so.

You know, the same thing is true of academic tenure. People often say that tenure discourages work. Well, maybe, to some extent, but the sort of person who can pass through the academic sieve and get tenure is usually the sort of person who likes to do high quality research simply because figuring out stuff is cool, and publishing the results is way cool.

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Piano*Dad #1481422 07/25/10 09:12 PM
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My first goal when I was a beginner was "I want to play like Keith Emerson." That took me to a certain place. After that,my goal was "I want to learn a Beethoven sonata." That took me a little further. My next goal was, " I want to be able to play a fugue musically, and voiced well."

Ok, so Brooke's goal is to get into the Jailyard. That will inspire some hard work, or it won't, and if so, he'll learn something, and develop other goals - short and long term - like "ok, I made it to the Jailyard, now what do I do with it?" It's like the dog that chases the bus. If it could talk, you would ask "what are you going to do with the bus when you catch it?"

I know lots of people who made it through Juilliard. Some are great musicians, and one or two I really don't respect. Whatever. The more important thing to think of is "what do I want to do in music?"

To Brooke, since you said you know some people there: ask them how many people audition for piano there each year, and how many people they accept. That will give you an idea. That's not being negative, that's reality.

On the other hand, my brother was a very good clarinet player, and when we were kids a hot shot woodwind quintet toured through our town. He asked one of them if he could get into Juilliard, and the guy said, "you sound ok, kid, so go for it. they have to let someone in..."

Last edited by Phlebas; 07/25/10 09:16 PM.
Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Phlebas #1481431 07/25/10 09:34 PM
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Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Piano*Dad #1481441 07/25/10 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
You know, the same thing is true of academic tenure. People often say that tenure discourages work. Well, maybe, to some extent, but the sort of person who can pass through the academic sieve and get tenure is usually the sort of person who likes to do high quality research simply because figuring out stuff is cool, and publishing the results is way cool.


The only cases I've seen where people slack off after tenure is when the school mishandles the tenure process - set the tenure bar too high or require way too much, and there's a danger of assistant professor burnout.

Either that, or they make the mistake of hiring someone who did their doctorate "because I want to teach college." You should do a doctorate because you want to do the work, not because you want to be employable by a university. (And hiring committees can tell the difference!)


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Brooke Taylor #1481453 07/25/10 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Brooke Taylor
Dear Ethan,

You said it perfectly. That is exactly how I feel. Thank you! Maybe I will get into Juilliard, but if I don't, then Eastman here I come. I also heard, that Curtis, is harder to get into than Juilliard!


Eastman is the #1 ranked school for Piano...why not go there? And then if that fails, go to Juilliard... Unless you want to ignore the actual ranking for how good it is for piano rather than competitiveness...?

I've studied piano for about 10 years, and I don't have the same aspirations as you do. Still it doesn't stop me from enjoying piano playing. Is it motivational to be competitive? Sure, of course, I've won my share of competitions, but in the long run, does it affect your musical ability?

List of very famous pianists who went to Juilliard:

Van Cliburn

List of very famous pianists who didn't go to Juilliard:


Rubinstein
Horowitz
Argerich
Kissin
Yundi Li
Richter
Pogorelich
Lugansky
Askenazy
Watts
Volodos
etc.


Last edited by Skorpius; 07/25/10 10:28 PM.

Working On-

Deux Arabesques, Debussy


On Queue-

Danse Russe from Petroushka, Stravinsky
Toccata, Ravel




Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Skorpius #1481541 07/26/10 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Skorpius
Originally Posted by Brooke Taylor
Dear Ethan,

You said it perfectly. That is exactly how I feel. Thank you! Maybe I will get into Juilliard, but if I don't, then Eastman here I come. I also heard, that Curtis, is harder to get into than Juilliard!


Eastman is the #1 ranked school for Piano...why not go there? And then if that fails, go to Juilliard... Unless you want to ignore the actual ranking for how good it is for piano rather than competitiveness...?

I've studied piano for about 10 years, and I don't have the same aspirations as you do. Still it doesn't stop me from enjoying piano playing. Is it motivational to be competitive? Sure, of course, I've won my share of competitions, but in the long run, does it affect your musical ability?

List of very famous pianists who went to Juilliard:

Van Cliburn

List of very famous pianists who didn't go to Juilliard:


Rubinstein
Horowitz
Argerich
Kissin
Yundi Li
Richter
Pogorelich
Lugansky
Askenazy
Watts
Volodos
etc.



How many piano professors in the USA who graduated from Juilliard? I bet many....

Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 ye
Brooke Taylor #1481593 07/26/10 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Brooke Taylor
The three Juilliard graduates that I know of are either A: Working as a music teacher at a dumpy little Christian school in nowheresville


Right, well this guy chose to go back to nowheresville conservatory to worlk as a muisci teacher, giving up a promising international career. After that he recorded what i believe is the best interpretation of Iberia ever on record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GIv56sLNdI



Originally Posted by Brooke Taylor
There is a difference between giving someone an opinion, and just being a negative waste of space. There is no such thing as an unrealistic dream. You don't have much room to talk either, because your profile even says "Yet to play the piano properly."




Then we're equals. aren't we?

Originally Posted by Brooke Taylor
Come back to me when you have something to say that's worth of any value.


No chance. Good luck with your Juilliard gig.

Last edited by izaldu; 07/26/10 05:43 AM.
Re: Do you think I will get into Juilliard in about 10-12 years?
Brooke Taylor #1481609 07/26/10 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Brooke Taylor
Hello there!

I have been playing for about 10 weeks, and so far, I can play the first page and 1/2 of Un Sospiro by Liszt....etc, etc


I think this is the problem. You are clearly not telling the truth. I (and others) know that with no prior experience, it is not possible to play the pieces you listed in 10 weeks. It just doesn't work that way.

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