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...and back to the original poster's question...

Not in this thread he hasn't.
And his posts in other threads likely aren't much help to the OP (who is fairly new here) unless he's done an exhaustive search.
Many new buyers are unaware of some of their newer options, with regards to quality, and I commend hop for helping out the OP with a name that he may not be aware of.

Sorry, for being a little slow on the response, but I have made two purchases from Pickle Piano in Bloomingdale. They are very good to work with. I have referred others to the store and they have been happy.

They also do a very good job of restoration etc., so there may be a used piano that could fit your budget as well.

Pre-delivery preparation is always important - perhaps more so with bargain priced pianos, because they're likely to have received less preparation at the factory.

I also like dealers who are techs or whose shop does restoration, but ultimately your decision should be based on tone, touch, and appearance, because you can pay an experienced tech to prepare your piano.

If you're willing to consider used pianos, the best used piano money that you can spend is that spent for a prepurchase inspection by an experienced tech to has no affilation with the seller. Bring in the tech when you've found a piano that you want to buy.

Re reducing confusion, below is a how-to-audition-pianos post from another thread. If you take your time when auditioning and make notes about what you noticed - liked or didn't like about tone, touch, and appearance - the fog will begin to clear:

Ask the reps to play the pianos for you, then you play them chromatically - one key at a time. You can also play simple chords. Have the rep show you Middle C. Put your right hand thumb on the C, your middle finger on the white key two keys to the right - that's E - and your pinkie on the white key two keys to the right of the E - that's G and that makes a C chord. Keep the same spacing and move your hand up one white key at a time until your thumb rests on the C which is two C's above Middle C. That's the range of most of the melodies that you'll be playing with your right hand. You can also use your left hand to play chords down the keyboard. Keep the same spacing, i.e., every other white key and play down two octaves. (As you play lower, the chords tend to get muddy.) Which piano do you prefer? Why?

If you enjoy playing the chords, start again at Middle C. See how softly you can play each piano. Then play with some force. You can ask the rep to show you an acceptable level of force - or to do it for you.

Don't worry about not playing well. You're not being auditoned, the pianos are. The reps will be glad to have a prospect in their showroom.

Choosing a piano is ultimately an emotional decision. We often react differently on different days, so multiple auditions are preferred. Patience and persistence.

That is exactly the reason we are looking at acoustics. I've seen it myself with the 7 year old. She has an electronic keyboard (more of a play thing than an instrument) and plinks around a bit. But when at a real piano she'll play for an hour just trying to figure something out. I think inspiration has a lot to do with this.

Regarding any particular brand: before a month ago I had never heard of many names and the fact that someone actually owns one and is happy with it speaks volumes to me. I realize that many here are dealers but I would hope that even a dealer would speak highly of a piano he owns even if he or she doesn't carry that particular line.

Thanks for the advice about playing them myself. I play guitar and have a handle on scales and major chords as they apply to the piano so next time I won't be afraid to sound sillly playing the pianos myself.

I'm also very interested in finding a dealer with whom I can do continued business with using their techs and tuners. If I have a problem I would like to be able to call the dealer for support instead of being referred to the manufacturer. That's all part of being a dealer in my book. Sales AND support.

I will add them to the list. So far we plan to visit the following places:
Chicago Piano Superstore (aka Steinway of Chicago)
Cordogan's Chicago Pianoland
Grand Piano Haus
Pickle Piano
Naperville Music

Any others I should add?

I share your opinion of dealers/techs, but you'll be living with the piano. It's best if people look forward to playing it.

When auditioning, it's tone, touch, and appearance - to your ears, your fingers, and your eyes. (Best case scenario: all family members agree.)

If there is more than one piano that you're confident that you can live with, please consider using dealer/tech as a tie breaker.

I don't know the other but I can vouch that Cordogans are great people.

Talk to John or Ann there, they'll look after you real good!

Norbert

Thanks. I'll keep everyone posted.

Ok, an update to the process.

We have visited a few more dealers around western Chicago and have changed what we are looking for a bit. My wife and I have decided to nix plans for a player system as we'd rather put that money into the instrument itself. This has moved the bar a bit and we find ourselves now looking at the Kawai/Yamaha question. While this will be a piano for beginners, we would like to get as much quality and tone as possible for our hard won dollars as we will have this instrument a long time. This of course puts us at a price point higher than where we started (not sure how comfortable we are with that) but of course now that brings higher priced imports into the picture which we had originally dismissed. We looked at a Kawai GE-30, RX-1 Blak, and some of the pianos imported by Steinway (Essex/Boston) as well a a number of used pianos. We really like the Kawai pianos but at over $10K we need to do a bit of due diligence to Yamaha and their offerings. Any advice in the $10K-$14K range? Does bringing Kawai and Yamaha into the picture immediately dismiss the lower range imports? That would simplify the search. I realize its our ears and our pocketbook but I'd be interested in your thought. Thanks!

I bought a Kawai after comparing against Yamaha, but I did not go try out Hailun and the Korean brands and I would have if I were to do it over, at least for comparison:

Yamaha C1 5'3" SMP $25598
Yamaha GC1M 5'3" SMP 19798

Kawai RX-1BLK 5'5" SMP $24190
Kawai GE-30 5'5" SMP $18790

Hailun 178 5'10" SMP $15144
Hailun 161 5'4" SMP $12412

You can expect another 10% to 30% off the SMP from a friendly dealer... and it seems like your budget could get you a larger Hailun vs. the smaller Kawai and Yamaha. If you take the price of a C1 and shop Chinese or Korean, you could end up with a larger piano with better sound. My wife the non-pianist could easily tell the difference between a 5'10" and a 6'1"... only 3 inches! I would expect most people to find the 5'10" Hailun to sound quite different than the other shorter pianos listed above.

It looks like we already mentioned Chinese brands in your old thread. Did you get a chance to look at them?

These are all good pianos and you would never regret buying them due to quality or value concerns. People only regret it if their kids quit piano or if they should have spent even more money

Lastly, I've only mentioned size and price so I am appearing to make you a price-conscious shopper while ignoring the reasons people pay more. I want to stress to you (and to our forum vets, hehe), that Yamaha costs more for many reasons and you can't dismiss the more expensive pianos (e.g., Steinway) as being unworthy so easily. However, it's up to you to decide how to value all those pricey attributes and arguments and how you judge all these pianos' sound and touch.

I'd recommend that you find a Hailun dealer and at least take a listen. I just searched and their is a dealer in the Chicago area. I looked at one in St. Paul, Minnesota and was impressed, by the price/performance ratio. It's too bad though that you probably won't be able to compare them side by side. Perhaps if you recorded all three of your contenders using as close to an identical set up as you can mention, you might be able to hear differences in the rocrdings (while understanding that the recordings will all likely be inferior to what they sound like in real life).

We have looked at some of the chinese brands and got a feel for the price of the Yamahas and Kawais. Some things we are sure of; we really like the touch and tone of the Kawais most notably the GE-30 and RX-1 Blak. We like their tone over the Yamahas by far and over the few chinese pianos too. We've seen the Boston and Essex brands (Steniway designs made in China) and Cristofori which the dealer imports themselves. Boston and Essex are priced in a range that makes the Kawais affordable and the Cristofori sounded nice but I think might be overpriced currently compared to other Chinese imports. We revisited Hallet Davis but they did not have one we could play. There was another chinese brand, Hobart Cable I think, which was priced more affordably but I didn't care for the sound that much and there was great variation in the tone between same models.

As it stands, we have dismissed the smallest Kawai (GM-10K) because the improvement in tone to the GE-30 was huge and more so to the RX-1 Blak. The latter pianos are 5'5" vice the smaller 5'0". Of course these are beyond the original budget but at this price we went to look at Yamaha and we didn't think they sounded as good for more money. Of course in the $10K-$14K range that will open up a greater range of the imports. It seems this could go on forever. We know we like the two Kawais. The RX 1 is my favorite but we are trying to figure out if it is really worth the extra $2.5K over the GE-30 not to mention trying to afford the higher price.

We feel better about the higher priced Kawais knowing that they more likely get more attention at the factory so the quality should be very consistent especially in the Blak series.

I know the Hailuns are well thought of here but I don't think I can get the wife to another dealer. She's a bit burned out and taking a short break while I run with the ball for a bit.

I really enjoy reading this thread since I am also looking for a grand. I will be visiting a NYC store in a couple of weeks and hope to look at Ritmuellers and Hailuns. I also hope Av8rTim takes the advice of many posters and looks at what appears to be their hands down fave - the Hailun 178. Good luck.

If all candidates are within budget, the best value is the one whose tone you prefer.

If you might be willing to consider a used piano, it'd be worthwhile to audition an RX-2. Sometimes manufacturers hit a "sweet spot" with a certain piano. Based on posts, I'm guessing that Kawai did that with the RX-2.

Just an update... We are getting close to pulling the trigger on a new piano and have it narrowed down to a couple. We really like the Kawai RX-1 Blak and slightly less so the GE-30. Both are 5'5" and are the two at the top of the food chain in what seems like quality AND price. We also have visited Essex liking a 5'8" and they had a good, deal but the cherry polish finish really doesn't work in our house. To order a one in ebony ups the price by almost $7K making it more expensive than the Kawai RX-1 Blak which I think is a much better piano. Essex also has a 5'3" which I think probably compares to Kawai's GE-30 in tone and they have one to sell at a comparable price. One dealer of an import under the Hallett Davis name has a 5'5" that's lower in price than all the above but looking at the buyers guide not sure how great of a deal it is. The other problem is that they don't have an example of this piano in the shop so we've not heard it. So unless one shows up to sample I don't think I can legitimately put it in the running. Of course the dealer thinks its a great piano! After hearing so much in this post and on the forum in general we are making an hour and half drive with the kids in tow to the sole Hailun dealer in Chicagoland. Their 5'4" and 5'10" will be more affordable than the Kawais and Essexes so we told ourselves we should at least go and have a touch and listen to see how we like them. I think we are leaning toward the Kawai RX-1 Blak but being the most expensive of course is not the best thing. But I think over the live of the piano the difference is probably worth it. So todays trip will be, really, to see how the Hailuns stack up to the Kawais. I think the 5'4" Hailun will cost $4K less than the 5'5" Kawai and the 5'10" Hailun will be about $3K less. So that's where we are... price vs. tone vs. quality vs. comfort in both brand and longevity.

Sounds like you've made a lot of progress! I agree completely with you that (a) the extra cost of the Blak is not much amortized over the life of the piano, and worth it given your preference of it over the GE-30; and (a) don't put a piano in the running if you haven't had the chance to play it.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Hailun and how it compares to the Kawai.

Hi Av8rTim,

However your journey takes you in the next few days, it sounds like you are going to do well either way. There is definitely a long and supportive fan base for the Kawai brand and the excellent pianos they produce. Additionally, there is a continually growing fan-base of Hailun pianos. I for one am pretty fond of them both and have both a Hailun grand and a couple of Kawais (though they are both digital I have been a long time fan of their acoustics!). My recommendation is to completely ignore any price considerations (if either is affordable), and that goes both ways!

Regards,
Ryan