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Today I went out to just LOOK at some pianos at a particular piano store. Familiar story, no doubt: “I came, I saw, I purchased.”

Totally not what I ever would have expected to do, i.e., I purchased a piano I never thought I would ever purchase, and at the time I did, and without researching it first.

My wife was with me, though, and she was totally endorsing the purchase. Why? Because even though she knows that I have always had my heart set on a used M&H AA, (we are not financially ready to purchase a new one -- the one with the new scale design, that I really, really like the sound of and touch) she likes the sound, the size, the AT device, and it was something that we could afford.

Continuing: We are in the store and I am playing a lot of used, but mostly rebuilt Steinways, and even an older M&H BB, and various Kawai models. But I am not a Steinway guy. Don’t ask me why, but I‘m just not although I like the touch and response of many of them. Kawai pianos, I’ve liked, though, when I remember trying them out years and years ago. I always thought they had a nice mellow tone, not too bright like Yamaha pianos.

Continuing: The store owner (a really nice and creditable fellow) knows that I am a novice player and takes me over to this Kawai 30 AT model and I really, really liked (again, as did my wife, who doesn’t play, by the way) AND it has this AT (Any Time) feature that will be very, very useful a lot of times. He said that it‘s a 2005 model year (serial #2542819) and in ‘new’ condition coming from a home that had no kids and who traded it in for a larger Estonia. The kicker, too, is that I liked it better than the more expensive used Steinways in the store. And then there was the price, being a lot less than the Steinway pianos, but still, not so much less than the used rebuilt M&H As and AAs I’ve seen on line.

Anyway, don’t ask me why because I don’t know why but I purchased it, without going home and researching it (this piano store is a 1 ½ to 2 ½ hour drive away, depending upon traffic). I paid -- bottom line after everything (which included a ‘free’ reasonable quality adjustable bench, and wooden caster pads for $45) $13,540 (with a ten year parts and labour warranty).

Okay, people, is this an “Ouch!”?

Looking on-line I see that there is an AT II now and I am wondering what the differences would be. And I am also wondering if there is really a big difference between this GE-30 and the RX1 model.

Also, besides not knowing if I paid too much it still haunts me that I compromised my quest and that there could have still been “that one,” great Mason AA out there for perhaps not so much difference in price (although I DO KNOW that there are a lot of bad M&H rebuilds out there as well, and I could never afford a new one).

And should I be so up-tight about this whole affair? Although I must also state that I have been looking for a long time, and perhaps I just hit a wall and ended up doing something hasty and imprudent.

Okay, end of therapy session.

“Tell it to me straight, Doc -- how long does I really have?”

Did you offer significantly less than he asked or just went along with his price?

@asd123321: Short answer, no. For some reason I didn’t push for a “hard sell.” I don’t know why I didn’t this time. The final price was his asking price, so what this ended up being was that he absorbed the sales tax and the shipping (and included a bench). This is what amounted to being the ‘discount’ -- about 1,500 dollars off of his asking price.

You might have been able to save a thousand. Maybe not. I just purchased a piano and I'm sure I could have gotten it less via a private sale and I could have haggled a couple hundred off the final sale but knowing I purchased it from a local dealer (the only dealer left in my area of around 400,000 people!) and the service and support that comes with that decision trumped the penny pinching.

If you like your piano, you did fine.

Going through school I remember taking a board exam or a placement test, and everyone would go out in the hall and ruminate afterwards. It's not a healthy thing.

You have a new, and from the sound of it, very nice piano. Post some pics when you get it home and congratulations!

Now is the time to worry about finding a good teacher and building a disciplined routine to practice and get the most out of your wonderful new piano, not to worry about whether you got the absolute best price that the dealer is kicking himself about. Celebrate this fact: instead of wasting a year obsessively shopping, you will instead be enjoying your great piano in your home. Life is short. A grand piano can last decades. Any potential price difference over those decades is perhaps pennies per day. A good lesson will cost $50 an hour. The fact that you have AT built in will be a great impetus to study and may save your marriage in the end. Kawai is one of the best piano brands out there. You done good.

With AT it's not a bad price at all. Even though this is "used" you still get a 10 year warranty, pretty awesome.

Hi PAB, and welcome to the forum. I think there are 2 issues here: 1) did I pay too much?, and 2) is this piano "the one"? I don't know the market prices for Kawai's, so I can't help you with the financial question. But psychologically, even if you find out you did pay too much, I think that concern will pass in time if you really love the piano. I think the second issue is the more important one. I'm usually an impulsive person, but when it came to buying a grand piano, I took my time. Sometimes we can find a piano that we enjoy playing in a store, but it's really about the novelty of the sound or action, and the good feeling would wear off if we bought the piano. So, I think you've got 2 choices. Keep the piano, play it a lot, and hopefully you will bond with it and love it and be happy with it for many years. Or, if you really have serious second thoughts about whether you love it, (apart from the money issue), return it now if you can, and wait for "the one".

I bought a new Baldwin Hamilton studio upright in 2001. I loved it, but then got the grand piano bug when I got real serious about playing. I would play lots of grands, but then come home and play my piano and realize I didn't like any of the grands in the store enough to take the plunge. Then I found a very nice Baldwin L locally that I liked very much and was about to buy it. Then my teacher came with me to look at it, and she sensed I was not in love with the piano. So based on what she said, I waited, and found "the one" 2 weeks later. That was 4 years ago, and I've never regretted it. There was a recent thread about forum members trying out 9 foot grands, and then being spoiled and less able to enjoy the smaller grands they own. I've never had that problem. I paid a very fair price for mine, but even if I had paid too much, I don't think I would have buyer's remorse.

Sorry if this sounds discouraging, I just would hate it if later you regretted buying the piano and it was too late to do anything about it.

Larry. A therapist. Really.

HI PAB, I wouldn't stress out too much over your decision. There was something about that piano that you were drawn to. You can trade up later when you can afford it. In the mean time you have this piano that both you and your wife, for whatever reason, were both drawn to. There is a lot of emotion in picking 'the piano' and from your description, it sounds as though although a somewhat impulsive decision, it seemed right for you. I have spent the last 26 years working toward my 'dream' piano, trading up when the time was right. Now my fourth and final 'step', my Mason and Hamlin will be coming home next week! My wait is about over. Look at it as a journey to your ultimate goal and enjoy each step along the way.
Life is an adventure. Have fun!

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of cheap prices is gone."

It is not a bad deal, PAB, especially with Any Time, and especially if you got it past the wife on the first try (any married man knows that that can be expensive). I don't know where in the US you live, but out here sales tax is nearly 10%, and a bench like the one you describe cost me $400. Delivery from such a distance might have amounted to, maybe, $200 - 300. Having all that folded into the purchase price is pretty favorable to you.

You would, in any case, be entitled to the balance of Kawai's transferable 10-year full warranty, so it sounds like the dealer added on an additional five or six year dealer's limited warranty. So, all these things represent added value to you. You didn't mention if any tunings were included, but these deals often include at least the first one.

But what good is any of that if you don't like the instrument? But, since you do, you're in the green.

Some people may feel a certain satisfaction if they help run a desperate dealer out of business by getting a sacrifice price... but there is an opportunity for remorse in that, too. What goes around does come around, and your fair treatment of vendors will come back to visit you, maybe sooner than you think.

Yes, the RX series is nicer, but incrementally so. No matter what you bought, there is always a nicer piano out there; the sky's the limit.

Break a sweat, over the next five years or so, on your piano lessons and music education, and hook up with a good piano tech to keep your nice piano in good shape. You have a fine opportunity to get something valuable for yourself and your family that money can't buy. The instrument you have will probably exceed your ability for a good little while.

I am curious about where, in the US, you got an AT instrument, since I can't find it anywhere on the http://kawaius.com website (it is on one of their European sites), and I understood that it wasn't yet in release here. Maybe I've misunderstood. I also can find nothing on AT II, and I'm curious about that.

I personally think that the RX series is much better in sound quality and tonal color. More versatile and malleable. Plus, the RX have the superb Millenium action. The GE30 is Kawai's entry-level grand, isn't it? You're a novice player? I'd say that's a great match. If you discover that in the future you improve and you want to upgrade to a finer/bigger, then you can still do it. For now, your needs are served very well, it seems.

Thanks to all for your great support! I am feeling better about this, although I just came across this:

http://www.pianocenter.com/used-detail.asp?CATID=13601

and it put me back into a little bit of a slump again for price and product. I don’t know.

Nevertheless, this is my conclusion:

If I were to do it over again, though (being more knowledgeable now), I think I would still make the same purchase, even over a brand new RX1; I just would have discussed a better price, perhaps, even though I understand and agree with Jeff Cleff’s comment, “Some people may feel a certain satisfaction if they help run a desperate dealer out of business by getting a sacrifice price...”.  

But anyway, one of the reasons I think I would have made the same decision is that you can’t get the AT system on the RX1 (or any grand Kawai model) in N.A., and for me I think this is going to be almost a necessity, or at the very least a very useful, well-used feature (apparently this feature retails for around 4 - 5K). The other reason is of course price, notwithstanding a new RX1 would be a better instrument. But HOW much better, really? I am just a novice and IF I can manage to complete this journey that I started when I was a boy, for at least the next year and accomplish my first goal, that will be the time to perhaps make some other determinations. If I don’t, then this piano will probably suffice for casual on-and-off playing and especially late at night using the AT feature.

@Jeff Cleff:

I purchased this apparently one-of-a-kind, or at least very rare instrument from a dealer in Southern CA. According to him, Kawai will not ship this feature to the U.S. (and it cannot be after-market, but can only be factory installed) because they don’t feel it to be profitable enough. He feels that if they could market it for $1,500 or so then they would, but not enough people are going to spend more than that for a feature like this on a grand piano. And the site where I learned about the AT II is:

http://www.kawai.de/ge30atii_en.htm

Anyway, what’s done is done. I just wish I hadn’t come across that first above referenced website about the GE-30. “What is truth?”

It sure sounds like you bought a very nice piano. Plus you have been shopping for a long time and you have learned what you like in a piano.

Plus the AT feature is unusual and you got an unusual piano that you really like for a price that is much less than new.
Seems to me that you did great.

Oh, and one more thing, though. Even though this dealer disparages the GE-30, the latest version of the “Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer, Spring 2010” rates the GE-30 and the RX1 in the highest consumer category (number 4 out of 6) and the Hailun (which he seems to endorse quite a bite) is actually in the mid-range category (5). So, go figure.

Update: It’s here! Pics to follow!

I know the feeling....I recently bought a very nice Yamaha G2 5'- 7" grand built in 1977. It is in excellent condition. I have not really played in years and have taken lessons off and on to play jazz piano. I have more time now, so have made up my mind to do this. I have a jazz professor now who was kind enough to take me on as a student! Well, I didn't want to go into debt, so I bought this piano kind of as an interim instrument figuring that I would go larger in the future. Since I have bought it I am tortured with thoughts of what I really should have done. It is a very nice piano, and fills my living room with sound, the action is great,etc. The strings are 33 years old and the bass is not totally up to par. So this friday my technician is coming to restring the piano and regulate it. I will have enough money in this piano now that I could have had a bigger used one, but what I will have now is a very fine instrument to play which I may keep, still enjoying the possibility of adding a big battleship down the road that can lie in the rec (music) room downstairs!

Just look at what piano the dealer is AUTHORIZED to sell new. That might have a lot to do with said dealer's opinion on your Kawai model. Is he AUTHORIZED to sell new Kawais? No! Why would someone stock a piano in their showroom that they "do not recommend." THis is absurd in my opinion.

PAB, the GE-30 has the Millennium III as well and it's certainly a great instrument. On paper the the RX-1 might be better (and costs more) but they are so similar only the most picky pianists would care. What you have is a very good high quality piano with a long warranty, known reliability, excellent reputation, and a very rare and useful feature (AT) at a fair price.