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The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano #1475742
07/16/10 07:06 PM
07/16/10 07:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 80
San Francisco
Nicole94707 Offline OP
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Nicole94707  Offline OP
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Ten years of daily practice.

That is what studies have found that it takes to "master" just about anything (of course, to master is a relative term.)






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Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: Nicole94707] #1475751
07/16/10 07:15 PM
07/16/10 07:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,171
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BenPiano Offline
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1 down, 9 to go. grin


Learning to play since June 2009.
My piano diary on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/user/afpaSTU1096
[Linked Image] <- 10+ ABF recitals
Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: BenPiano] #1475761
07/16/10 07:33 PM
07/16/10 07:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,393
Beautiful San Diego, CA
eweiss Offline
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Well, I always say it takes 10 years for most to really learn how to drive. Which means there's still a lot of newbies on the road. smile


Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com
Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: eweiss] #1475770
07/16/10 07:51 PM
07/16/10 07:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,101
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ll Offline
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ll  Offline
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L

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"10,000 hours," I think, was the actual claim.

And this has come up a lot around here.

Baloney, really.


II. As in, second best.
Only lowercase. So not even that.
I teach piano and violin.
BM, Violin & Percussion Performance 2009, Piano Pedagogy 2011.
Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: ll] #1475771
07/16/10 07:51 PM
07/16/10 07:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,101
L
ll Offline
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ll  Offline
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L

Joined: Nov 2008
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(And yes, I spelled it that way purposefully.)


II. As in, second best.
Only lowercase. So not even that.
I teach piano and violin.
BM, Violin & Percussion Performance 2009, Piano Pedagogy 2011.
Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: eweiss] #1475773
07/16/10 07:53 PM
07/16/10 07:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,605
Chocolatetown, USA
TrapperJohn Offline
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Simple truth? I don't think so - not much, but especially piano study, is that simple.

For example, how many hours per day over those 10 years?

At what intensity and with what motivation and enthusiasm?

Are there different levels of sub and super mastery, and at what time period?

If it's one hour per day then it logically follows that if you practice 2 hours per day you will achieve mastery in 5 years, correct?

And on and on...

JF


Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.
Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: TrapperJohn] #1475790
07/16/10 08:32 PM
07/16/10 08:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 873
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Wizard of Oz Offline
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Good luck, see you in 10 years!

Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: TrapperJohn] #1475795
07/16/10 08:37 PM
07/16/10 08:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,125
rocket88 Offline
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Originally Posted by John Frank
Simple truth? I don't think so - not much, but especially piano study, is that simple.

For example, how many hours per day over those 10 years?

At what intensity and with what motivation and enthusiasm?

Are there different levels of sub and super mastery, and at what time period?

If it's one hour per day then it logically follows that if you practice 2 hours per day you will achieve mastery in 5 years, correct?

And on and on...

JF


And on and on... exactly. thumb


Piano teacher.
Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: TrapperJohn] #1475796
07/16/10 08:42 PM
07/16/10 08:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,171
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BenPiano Offline
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Originally Posted by John Frank
If it's one hour per day then it logically follows that if you practice 2 hours per day you will achieve mastery in 5 years, correct?


1 down, 4 to go. grin

smokin


Learning to play since June 2009.
My piano diary on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/user/afpaSTU1096
[Linked Image] <- 10+ ABF recitals
Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: BenPiano] #1475801
07/16/10 08:46 PM
07/16/10 08:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 873
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Wizard of Oz Offline
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I got a book called "Secrets of Learning Piano Fast" where in only 10 minutes a day you too can master any song you want. Just for 3 easy payments of $19.99 plus shipping and handling! Call now!


Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: ll] #1475811
07/16/10 09:09 PM
07/16/10 09:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 102
Boston
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jcabraham Offline
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Originally Posted by ll
"10,000 hours," I think, was the actual claim.

And this has come up a lot around here.

Baloney, really.


The original research is actually quite convincing. The problem is that the media seized on the number without the caveat. The conclusion of the original studies was, basically, that masters of a specialty like piano playing required at least 10k hours of *deliberate* practice, carefully defined. "Native ability", whatever that may be, did not correlate with subsequent mastery.

Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: jcabraham] #1475862
07/16/10 11:35 PM
07/16/10 11:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,935
Colorado
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Inlanding Offline
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I don't believe a word of it. There are far too many variables when it comes to playing the piano that can't be summed up in a simple number.

Mastery is another loaded term. Just ask any of the 'masters' how many hours it took them - many will say mastery is as elusive as it was on day-one. wink

Glen


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Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: Wizard of Oz] #1475863
07/16/10 11:37 PM
07/16/10 11:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,347
mr_super-hunky Offline
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The REAL truth is *quality* practice time, not quantity.

10,000 hours of Mary had a little lamb every day will produce a master of nothing.......except performing Mary had a little lamb of course!

Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: Nicole94707] #1475876
07/16/10 11:56 PM
07/16/10 11:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 111
Pike County, PA
A
AllShookUp Offline
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Quote
Ten years of daily practice.

That is what studies have found that it takes to "master" just about anything (of course, to master is a relative term.)


Completely false. I had women figured out by the time I was 9 and a half. If only I had a piano then... and learned to tell the truth.



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Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: AllShookUp] #1475931
07/17/10 02:57 AM
07/17/10 02:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
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Ken. Offline
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I think 10,000 hours is a good benchmark. I will probably have done about that much in a few years on my primary instrument (approx 28 years at 1 hour/day) and I would be surprised if my playing gets much better from here on out given the rate of progress over the years.


Monk - Boo Boo's Birthday
Bach - Two Part Invention No.11
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Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: AllShookUp] #1475989
07/17/10 07:41 AM
07/17/10 07:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,605
Chocolatetown, USA
TrapperJohn Offline
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TrapperJohn  Offline
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Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted by Patrick Thomas
... I had women figured out by the time I was 9 and a half...


Ha! You only knew what they wanted you to know...and they were either dazzling you with deception or baffling you with bulls**t ...maybe by 99 1/2...maybe... smile

JF


Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.
Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: TrapperJohn] #1475995
07/17/10 08:07 AM
07/17/10 08:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 216
U.K.
Ejay Offline
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You mean , of course, that you had figured out that you would never understand them.. lol


Music was my refuge. I could crawl into the space between the notes and curl my back to loneliness.
Maya Angelou

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Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: Ejay] #1476000
07/17/10 08:31 AM
07/17/10 08:31 AM
Joined: May 2008
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etcetra Offline
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Well, I read that Kenny Garrett have practiced over 50,000 hours in his lifetime.. and I think someone once said it took him 15 years to be able to play the Chopin etude Op10 #2 well. It may be true that with 10,000 hours of practice you will be competent, but if you want to be a "master" like the people we look up to, chances are they put in a lot more than 10,000.

I know people who have probably practiced more than 10,000 and still suck, mostly due to the fact they were just playing for that time instead of doing actual practicing. Effective practicing requires the kind of discipline you would need for boot camp, and knowing how to practice is probably more important than putting 10,000 hours on an instrument.

Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: Inlanding] #1476158
07/17/10 03:29 PM
07/17/10 03:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 102
Boston
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jcabraham Offline
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Boston
Originally Posted by Inlanding
I don't believe a word of it. There are far too many variables when it comes to playing the piano that can't be summed up in a simple number.

Mastery is another loaded term. Just ask any of the 'masters' how many hours it took them - many will say mastery is as elusive as it was on day-one. wink

Glen


This is not some froot-loopy made up self-help. The original research was done by Anders Ericsson, and published in peer-reviewed journals. Take a look at the papers and then decide.

Re: The Simple Truth to Mastering Piano [Re: jcabraham] #1476159
07/17/10 03:31 PM
07/17/10 03:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 102
Boston
J
jcabraham Offline
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Boston
Originally Posted by jcabraham
Originally Posted by Inlanding
I don't believe a word of it. There are far too many variables when it comes to playing the piano that can't be summed up in a simple number.

Mastery is another loaded term. Just ask any of the 'masters' how many hours it took them - many will say mastery is as elusive as it was on day-one. wink

Glen


This is not some froot-loopy made up self-help. The original research was done by Anders Ericsson, and published in peer-reviewed journals. Take a look at the papers and then decide.


Here's a link to get you started: http://www.psy.fsu.edu/faculty/ericsson/ericsson.exp.perf.html

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