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Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: Upright] #1472185
07/11/10 07:55 AM
07/11/10 07:55 AM
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Netherlands
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babama Offline
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I've been looking for a nice software piano because I'm tired of the sound of my Roland HP 201.

Based on the demos I think I'm going for Synthogy Ivory. But Pianoteq seems interesting too.

I assume both will work good enough on a PC with 2,4Ghz dual core, 3GB ram and M-Audio Audiophile card?

By the way, is there any difference in performance when connecting the Roland with a basic MIDI cable to PC, or with a USB midi cable?

Last edited by babama; 07/11/10 07:55 AM.
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Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: babama] #1472203
07/11/10 08:21 AM
07/11/10 08:21 AM
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Germany
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Upright Offline
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Originally Posted by babama
I've been looking for a nice software piano because I'm tired of the sound of my Roland HP 201.

Based on the demos I think I'm going for Synthogy Ivory. But Pianoteq seems interesting too.

I assume both will work good enough on a PC with 2,4Ghz dual core, 3GB ram and M-Audio Audiophile card?

You may also try Galaxy Vintage D. It sounds really great. Just google a little. And the Galaxy Pianos are not as demanding concerning computer power as the Synthogy Pianos.


Pianos and Service - www.martinwidmannklaviere.de
Piano parts and Accessories - www.pianosupply.de
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: babama] #1472233
07/11/10 09:36 AM
07/11/10 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by babama
I've been looking for a nice software piano because I'm tired of the sound of my Roland HP 201.

Based on the demos I think I'm going for Synthogy Ivory. But Pianoteq seems interesting too.

I assume both will work good enough on a PC with 2,4Ghz dual core, 3GB ram and M-Audio Audiophile card?

By the way, is there any difference in performance when connecting the Roland with a basic MIDI cable to PC, or with a USB midi cable?


As long as the driver works there should be no difference between the MIDI cable or the USB.
See which one works better if you have both cables.
You might get lower latency with the MIDI and M-Audio card but try them both.

Ivory needs a fast disk but isn't too heavy on CPU.
If you have 2 disks, install Ivory on the one that doesn't contain your operating system if possible.

PianoTeq is interesting, but for me Ivory is much better, more realistic sounding and plays better as a solo piano. Specifically the C7 and Italian Grand. I don't care for the Bosendorfer and the Steinway is good but not great IMHO.

I'm going to give Galaxy a try as well because a lot of people are liking the new Steinway.

Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: JoeThePro] #1472285
07/11/10 12:02 PM
07/11/10 12:02 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 46
Porto Alegre/RS - Brazil
virtu Offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyIsFunny
Originally Posted by virtu
My notebook settings:

C2D @ 2.0ghz
2gb of RAM
Sound: Realteq High Definition Sound (onboard)
Driver: Yamaha for DGX-230
Connection type: USB
SO: Windows 7 64x

Installed pianoteq and playing with low latency, I dont know how to check the latency, but it was playing very nice, I adjust to 128 poliphony, sustain pedal and played very quickly to get a lot of poliphony used and no lag at all.

I was trying to install ASIO4ALL but didnt understant how to do that, so I stayed with normal drivers and it sounds nice to play at home =D


For me, I just installed the ASIO4ALL drivers and that was it, good to go. Just went into pianoteq options and changed output from directsound (or whatever) to ASIO and it worked.


Ok... I resolved it. I had the wrong files =/ now I downloaded the .exe from ASIO4ALL and it is working GREAT, almost no delay at all.

By the way, anyone knows how to record music from pianoteq using another record program, not using the pianoteq inside one? (when I record from pianoteq the sounds didnt sounds the same that whein I was playing)

Thanks.


"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
-- Albert Einstein
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: virtu] #1472349
07/11/10 02:28 PM
07/11/10 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by virtu
[quote=JoeyIsFunny][quote=virtu]My notebook
how to record music from pianoteq using another record program, not using the pianoteq inside one? (when I record from pianoteq the sounds didnt sounds the same that whein I was playing)


That depends on your soundcard, not all the drivers work the same way, but if you have one that allows you to record the "Stereo Mix" (which is quite common), it is the more direct way to do it. Just select the "Stereo Mix" instead of "Line In" as the source for recording in the Windows Mixer or the recording program.

Anyway, that is strange as Pianoteq renders the WAV into a file directly so what you get there is what the program is going to send to the soundcard. If it does not sound the same then something is going on during the reproduction that is changing something.

Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: kurtie] #1473954
07/14/10 03:53 AM
07/14/10 03:53 AM
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Posts: 171
UK
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I'm using a Casio PX-110 and I've finally woken up to the fact that I can connect it to my PC and use a software piano. So I've downloaded a demo of Pianoteq Play and installed it on my Acer Aspire laptop. My midi-USB lead should arrive today hopefully!

The Casio PX-110 actually sounds quite good as a standalone DP. The piano voice is good (harpsichord is terrible though) and the built in speakers also sound good. It also sounds great on my Sennheiser headphones.

Now although I can't connect the Casio to the laptop until my lead arrives, I did a quick comparison by plugging my Sennheiser headphones into the laptop running Pianoteq (and clicking piano keys with the mouse) and then comparing with the Casio / Sennheisers. I would say the Casio sounds better.

So my question is this: presumably to get the best out of Pianoteq I will have to use my desktop PC with a decent soundcard and speakers, as it appears the soundchips in the Acer laptop can't match the Casio for performance. What sort of soundcard / speakers would you all recommend, or should it be possible to get the laptop / Sennheiser combo to outperform the Casio / Sennheiser combo? (My desktop also has on-board sound chips albeit on a Gigabyte motherboard). I'm also assuming that I can't feed the output of the PC back into the Casio via midi and use the Casio speakers, whilst still having Pianoteq voices?


Kawai CA67
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: PhilzPiano] #1473988
07/14/10 05:53 AM
07/14/10 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilzPiano
Now although I can't connect the Casio to the laptop until my lead arrives, I did a quick comparison by plugging my Sennheiser headphones into the laptop running Pianoteq (and clicking piano keys with the mouse) and then comparing with the Casio / Sennheisers. I would say the Casio sounds better.

So my question is this: presumably to get the best out of Pianoteq I will have to use my desktop PC with a decent soundcard and speakers, as it appears the soundchips in the Acer laptop can't match the Casio for performance. What sort of soundcard / speakers would you all recommend, or should it be possible to get the laptop / Sennheiser combo to outperform the Casio / Sennheiser combo? (My desktop also has on-board sound chips albeit on a Gigabyte motherboard). I'm also assuming that I can't feed the output of the PC back into the Casio via midi and use the Casio speakers, whilst still having Pianoteq voices?


You can get a very good performance from your laptop... as far as you get an external USB audio interface. There are integrated sound chips quite good, but for getting the best results, a sound card is needed. There are also integrated sound chips that performs quite bad... so, at best, using integrated sound you would get a good performance.

There is a second point: connecting your Sennheiser headphones (probably with an impedance of 64 ohms) directly to an integrated sound chip output is not the way to get the best from your headphones. Some sound cards have headphone outputs that can drive such headphones, but not the integrated chip in a laptop.

So, in your tests you are not getting the best from Pianoteq.

In your case I would go for an amp and a decent speakers. The headphones will sound nice plugged to your amp, and that may notably improve the built-in speakers. But the drawback, of course, is cost.

Is it worth to buy a dedicated soundcard if you have a decent onboard chip in your desktop? I am in that dilemma. I have a Gigabyte motherboard with an integrated Realtek ALC888 sound chip, which, looking at the reviews and the tests I've done, is quite good for an integrated sound chip. I am thinking in buying a M-Audio Audiophile 2496, which is not an expensive card, and has a better performance that the one I have now, but botter enough to make it worth buying? I have no answer yet...

Last edited by kurtie; 07/14/10 05:54 AM.
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: PhilzPiano] #1474040
07/14/10 08:53 AM
07/14/10 08:53 AM
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Posts: 298
Atlanta, GA
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JoeThePro Offline OP
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Originally Posted by PhilzPiano
I'm using a Casio PX-110 and I've finally woken up to the fact that I can connect it to my PC and use a software piano. So I've downloaded a demo of Pianoteq Play and installed it on my Acer Aspire laptop. My midi-USB lead should arrive today hopefully!

The Casio PX-110 actually sounds quite good as a standalone DP. The piano voice is good (harpsichord is terrible though) and the built in speakers also sound good. It also sounds great on my Sennheiser headphones.

Now although I can't connect the Casio to the laptop until my lead arrives, I did a quick comparison by plugging my Sennheiser headphones into the laptop running Pianoteq (and clicking piano keys with the mouse) and then comparing with the Casio / Sennheisers. I would say the Casio sounds better.

So my question is this: presumably to get the best out of Pianoteq I will have to use my desktop PC with a decent soundcard and speakers, as it appears the soundchips in the Acer laptop can't match the Casio for performance. What sort of soundcard / speakers would you all recommend, or should it be possible to get the laptop / Sennheiser combo to outperform the Casio / Sennheiser combo? (My desktop also has on-board sound chips albeit on a Gigabyte motherboard). I'm also assuming that I can't feed the output of the PC back into the Casio via midi and use the Casio speakers, whilst still having Pianoteq voices?


I can tell you for a fact that Pianoteq is a much truer and quality sound than your px-110. I have the px-130 and pianoteq is an improvement. Its very deceiving when you click the on-screen keys to test the sound. It sounds much better when you are actually playing and can properly control the dynamics and play more than one note at a time!!

If you have powered external speakers (like for a desktop) you can hook up to your laptop, they should have a headphone jack. Plug your headphones into THAT jack, not the soundcard jack, and see if it makes a difference in quality. Not sure it will, but just try it anyway. It could just be that you have a low end onboard sound card. Is your pianoteq playing at 44000/48000 Hz? If its not, try to get it set up to because you will get a better sound from it.

Also, why did you get pianoteq play and not standard???

Last edited by JoeyIsFunny; 07/14/10 08:54 AM.
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: JoeThePro] #1474054
07/14/10 09:32 AM
07/14/10 09:32 AM
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Posts: 3,730
Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Offline
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Suffolk, United Kingdom
The main point is that modelled sounds can, and often do, PLAY beautifully. I know this having been the owner of a V-Piano and still being the owner of a RD-1000. The player to sound connection can be considerably better than even a good sampled piano...the change in timbre according to key pressure and the overall dynamics can make these things very rewarding. BUT, you have to find a way to live with reduced sonic realism. The V-piano was not too bad but I couldn't live with it in the long run because it sounds artificial and processed, especially in the mid-range. The treble and bass areas (especially the bass) were magnificent....completely beyond criticism in my opinion.

I should say right now, I have never played Pianoteq, but I always give any demos a listen in the hope that someone has tweaked the coldness out, the ringing metallic eeriness that seems to occur in the upper mids...a sound that completely lacks warmth or soul in my view...the attack portion of the sound seems wrong and I have yet to hear any Pianoteq demo that I could live with...it leaves me utterly cold. But I do not doubt for one minute that it could be a rewarding thing to PLAY, just not to LISTEN to, because it is not sufficiently like a piano yet.

Just my opinion.

Steve


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: JoeThePro] #1474084
07/14/10 10:26 AM
07/14/10 10:26 AM
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Posts: 171
UK
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PhilzPiano Offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyIsFunny

Also, why did you get pianoteq play and not standard???


I downloaded the Pianoteq Play demo because I would seriously consider buying it immediately at that price if it is any good. The standard version is a lot more expensive and I'm not sure I'm at high enough playing level to make use of all the extra features.

My midi-USB lead has just arrived, so I will be giving Pianoteq a proper test shortly.


Kawai CA67
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: EssBrace] #1474131
07/14/10 11:48 AM
07/14/10 11:48 AM
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Posts: 8,938
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted by EssBrace
I should say right now, I have never played Pianoteq, but I always give any demos a listen in the hope that someone has tweaked the coldness out, the ringing metallic eeriness that seems to occur in the upper mids...a sound that completely lacks warmth or soul in my view...the attack portion of the sound seems wrong and I have yet to hear any Pianoteq demo that I could live with...it leaves me utterly cold. But I do not doubt for one minute that it could be a rewarding thing to PLAY, just not to LISTEN to, because it is not sufficiently like a piano yet.
I think it comes down to expectations. The OP has a low-end DP, so Pianoteq must surely give better sound. I have a Clavinova. Pianoteq seems like a step down.

So with that in mind, I wonder where Pianoteq would make sense?

It's pretty expensive. If you have a basic keyboard, and then add Pianoteq and a PC and a sound card ... you've spent a lot. I think you could spend less simply by purchasing a P155. You'd get better sound and a much better keyboard action. And you wouldn't need to mess with all of the hookups. You wouldn't have to troubleshoot problems. You wouldn't have to deal with latency issues.

If, instead, you have a high-end DP, then Pianoteq won't help the sound. IMO, it sounds worse. So just where in the marketplace does Pianoteq "fit"?

Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: MacMacMac] #1474150
07/14/10 12:29 PM
07/14/10 12:29 PM
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Munich, Germany
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mucci Offline
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This isn't expensive:

- Netbook with Atom 1.6GHz and Windows 7 Starter (about 250-300 Euro, only needed if you want a dedicated machine for playing piano)
- Pianoteq Play (99 Euro)

If you have a keyboard that can handle USB, then nothing else is needed, otherwise an inexpensive MIDI-Interface (~30 Euro)

That's altogether about min. 100 Euro to about max. 400 Euro.

To get the sound even better, you could combine the DP sound with Pianoteq, so that it sounds more realistic.

It might not be better than a P155, but it's definitely cheaper.


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: mucci] #1474163
07/14/10 12:37 PM
07/14/10 12:37 PM
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Stockholm, Sweden
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alinnman Offline
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Hi,
I have been using Pianoteq a couple of months now and I must say it is better than *any* other DP I have tried. Of course it is all a matter of personal taste.

What I like about Pianoteq:
* When using speakers (inside the DP) you can adjust "virtual microphones" to the placement of the speakers. This will give you phase-correct sound. Smashing quality attribute really, it sounds as there are actually *strings* in your piano, at the right place.
* Ability to fine tune (detune) and make the instrument more realistic.

You could listen to a recording I just finished to find out..
http://linnman.net/clair3.mp3
I have done the recording on a modified setup (based on the "C3") with shortened string length, and slight detuning.

Cheers
/August



Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: alinnman] #1474171
07/14/10 12:47 PM
07/14/10 12:47 PM
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Colorado
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Inlanding Offline
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While I'd not mistake this signature for one of an acoustic piano, it is quite nice for a purely electronic sound, very pleasant.

More than all that, thanks for sharing your most excellent Debussy, August!

Glen


[Linked Image]
A Bit of YouTube
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Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: Inlanding] #1474178
07/14/10 01:01 PM
07/14/10 01:01 PM
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Posts: 171
UK
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PhilzPiano Offline
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Having received my midi-USB lead I've now connected my laptop to my Casio PX-110. Unfortunately I've hit a snag straightaway because I'm getting lots of midi errors. If I hit a note repeatedly, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes a different note sounds etc. The midi log within Pianoteq always registers something when I hit or release a note, but the message received varies wildly. I've put the laptop into high power mode and the processor frequency is shown correctly within Pianoteq. My immediate thought is that the very cheap £5 midi-USB lead from Ebay is at fault. The lead looks good and uses screened wire. What do you think?


Kawai CA67
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: alinnman] #1474183
07/14/10 01:10 PM
07/14/10 01:10 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 46
Porto Alegre/RS - Brazil
virtu Offline
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Originally Posted by August Linnman
Hi,
I have been using Pianoteq a couple of months now and I must say it is better than *any* other DP I have tried. Of course it is all a matter of personal taste.

What I like about Pianoteq:
* When using speakers (inside the DP) you can adjust "virtual microphones" to the placement of the speakers. This will give you phase-correct sound. Smashing quality attribute really, it sounds as there are actually *strings* in your piano, at the right place.
* Ability to fine tune (detune) and make the instrument more realistic.

You could listen to a recording I just finished to find out..
http://linnman.net/clair3.mp3
I have done the recording on a modified setup (based on the "C3") with shortened string length, and slight detuning.

Cheers
/August


Simple Amazing... "aplauses"
If you don´t mind, can you share your preset, pianoteq version and computer settings?

Thanks.


"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
-- Albert Einstein
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: PhilzPiano] #1474188
07/14/10 01:18 PM
07/14/10 01:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 298
Atlanta, GA
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JoeThePro Offline OP
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I have to agree with a previous poster that Pianoteq PLAYS superbly, and does sound a bit artificial. But I must add that the (mildly, compared to good DPs) artificial sounds are much more than made up for in the vast amounts of character and resonance Pianoteq produces in its piano models. Id rather play Pianoteq with a somewhat artificial piano sound than a DP with a good piano sound but artificial resonance and timbre response. It just sounds so ALIVE to me, I love it.

Originally Posted by PhilzPiano
Having received my midi-USB lead I've now connected my laptop to my Casio PX-110. Unfortunately I've hit a snag straightaway because I'm getting lots of midi errors. If I hit a note repeatedly, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes a different note sounds etc. The midi log within Pianoteq always registers something when I hit or release a note, but the message received varies wildly. I've put the laptop into high power mode and the processor frequency is shown correctly within Pianoteq. My immediate thought is that the very cheap £5 midi-USB lead from Ebay is at fault. The lead looks good and uses screened wire. What do you think?


You know you could just go to a local electronics store and buy a cheap USB A/B cable, they are standard USB printer cables. I doubt its the cable producing issues. Are you using direct sound or ASIO?? Check the options and sound settings. Try downloading the ASIO4ALL drivers and then see how it sounds.

Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: JoeThePro] #1474208
07/14/10 02:11 PM
07/14/10 02:11 PM
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Munich, Germany
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mucci Offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyIsFunny
I have to agree with a previous poster that Pianoteq PLAYS superbly, and does sound a bit artificial. But I must add that the (mildly, compared to good DPs) artificial sounds are much more than made up for in the vast amounts of character and resonance Pianoteq produces in its piano models. Id rather play Pianoteq with a somewhat artificial piano sound than a DP with a good piano sound but artificial resonance and timbre response. It just sounds so ALIVE to me, I love it.


So why not having the best of both worlds by blending your favourite DP sound with Pianoteq?


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: mucci] #1474233
07/14/10 03:06 PM
07/14/10 03:06 PM
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Posts: 298
Atlanta, GA
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JoeThePro Offline OP
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Originally Posted by mucci
Originally Posted by JoeyIsFunny
I have to agree with a previous poster that Pianoteq PLAYS superbly, and does sound a bit artificial. But I must add that the (mildly, compared to good DPs) artificial sounds are much more than made up for in the vast amounts of character and resonance Pianoteq produces in its piano models. Id rather play Pianoteq with a somewhat artificial piano sound than a DP with a good piano sound but artificial resonance and timbre response. It just sounds so ALIVE to me, I love it.


So why not having the best of both worlds by blending your favourite DP sound with Pianoteq?


Because the px-130 isnt one of my favorite piano sounds. smile I think Pianoteq is better in every way. Im actually very glad I didnt buy a more expensive DP because I cant see myself ever going back to a built-in DP sound. The px-130 on its own has good sound for the price of a DP and the action is good, the latter being all that matters in a midi controller for Pianoteq. For the $1000 range though, I will say the P155 comes close to the richness of pianoteq, and the samples are very very good. This may be the only DP in the under $1500 range that I would play besides Pianoteq.

Re: Just tried Pianoteq (OMG) [Re: JoeThePro] #1474234
07/14/10 03:06 PM
07/14/10 03:06 PM
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Posts: 298
Atlanta, GA
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JoeThePro Offline OP
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Originally Posted by mucci
Originally Posted by JoeyIsFunny
I have to agree with a previous poster that Pianoteq PLAYS superbly, and does sound a bit artificial. But I must add that the (mildly, compared to good DPs) artificial sounds are much more than made up for in the vast amounts of character and resonance Pianoteq produces in its piano models. Id rather play Pianoteq with a somewhat artificial piano sound than a DP with a good piano sound but artificial resonance and timbre response. It just sounds so ALIVE to me, I love it.


So why not having the best of both worlds by blending your favourite DP sound with Pianoteq?


Because the px-130 isnt one of my favorite piano sounds. smile I think Pianoteq is better in every way. Im actually very glad I didnt buy a more expensive DP because I cant see myself ever going back to a built-in DP sound. The px-130 on its own has good sound for the price of a DP and the action is good, the latter being all that matters in a midi controller for Pianoteq. For the $1000 range though, I will say the P155 comes close to the richness of pianoteq, and the samples are very very good. This may be the only DP in the under $1500 range (that I have personally heard) that I would play besides Pianoteq.

Last edited by JoeyIsFunny; 07/14/10 03:07 PM.
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