Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
So I just got a usb cable to connect my px-130 to my computer to try the trial version of pianoteq. I pretty much sh*t my pants after about 0.0002 seconds of hearing the first note.
IT IS INCREDIBLE!!! There is NO way I will be able to go back to using the built in sounds of the px-130 anytime in the near future haha... Wow. Im just blown away. And this is with a crappy $10 sound card! Im going to buy a nicer higher bit/sample rate capability card with ASIO. I have some lag, pianoteq says 20ms but I can tell its way more than that. Definitely playable for now, but man I cant wait to get this set up right!
Modartt, thank you so much for having such a wonderful trial version of your amazing software!
(Keep in mind Im not a seasoned piano player, so the novelty of Pianoteq may wear off soon, but for now... still sh*tting my pants.)
agreed, if you can get everything to work the way you want it, modartt has made an ingenius piece of software.
although personally, I'm still having dissonance problems, not sure if it's the soundcard or the monitors
I just downloaded the ASIO4ALL drivers and it actually worked perfectly straight from the installation. The latency is undetectable now! Sounds absolutely amazing even through my worthless sound card. Im so impressed and giddy haha... One thing Ive noticed is that most of the piano presets seem to be like... scooped in the mids or something. But I may just need to play around with it more. Doesnt sound bad by any means and I know you can adjust the EQ and whatnot.
it helps if you visit their forums and get the correct velocity curve for you keyboard model. Or you can create your own if you feel really specific about the strengths.
it helps if you visit their forums and get the correct velocity curve for you keyboard model. Or you can create your own if you feel really specific about the strengths.
When I said scooped in the mids I meant the frequency response of the notes... like the midrange slider on an EQ. I think It was just the settings I was using, after messing with it Ive found much different sounds.
My apologies, I am mistaken - it's Stereophonic, not Quadrophonic.
You should be able to see a drop down menu in the very centre of the Pianoteq window. Try clicking this to change the setting from 'Sound Recording' to 'Stereophonic' etc. On some occasions, I have found this setting to produce a more 'direct' sound, although it has to be said that not everyone appreciates sound in the same way.
After playing a while, I noticed that Pianoteq doesnt seem to have the stereo effect of the bass notes being more in the left speaker and the treble more in the right. Can anyone confirm that this is present or missing in the software??
I hear a stereo effect. Maybe not as dramatic as you're used to. But the bass notes are definitely a bit left of center and the higher notes a bit right. You can probably get a wider field by adjusting the virtual mic placement.
I hear a stereo effect. Maybe not as dramatic as you're used to. But the bass notes are definitely a bit left of center and the higher notes a bit right. You can probably get a wider field by adjusting the virtual mic placement.
Well I definitely hear stereo, but youre right its not like the px-130 which did it really well. Mic placement does do cool things though. This program is so insane..
But no doubt whatever you do it still has that cold, processed metallic timbre, especially in the midrange. It's not for me I'm afraid. Glad you are enjoying it though.
Hm, I humbly beg to differ, I don't find Pianoteq's midrange timbre to be "cold, processed metallic" in any way, but that's just my personal opinion.
Here's a demo video with some of the most difficult kind of music to demonstrate on a digital piano, a piece with delicate shades of coloring and pedal nuances. Pianoteq gets extremely high marks in my book for being such a convincing musical instrument to express with:
Personally I can't stand playing Pianoteq. For me, it sounds hollow and woolly sounding, especially in the lower registers where the notes don't start resonating and sounding different when you play loudly.
With Ivory, the tone and character of the notes changes as you go from soft to loud and the sound level increases dramatically. You can hear the strings snapping with Ivory.
PianoTeq sounds compressed and lifeless to me in that regard.
His piece is a perfect one for demonstrating the good aspects of Pianoteq. The soft playing is a style which will bring out poor samples in traditional sampled pianos. However if you listen or play PianoTeq the uppers are much too bell like sounding for my taste.
All of this is with mostly default settings on my part and very little tweaking. I'm sure the sound could be made better by experimenting, but I do notice some of the comments on the video are asking for settings which means others are wondering as well.
I'm also a jazz pianiast and prefer a bright "stringy" sounding piano (Yamaha) to the typical classically voiced instrument.
Personally I can't stand playing Pianoteq. For me, it sounds hollow and woolly sounding, especially in the lower registers where the notes don't start resonating and sounding different when you play loudly.
I agree. I found Pianoteq to be a sonic downgrade for my Clavinova. Just not worth the expense or the bother. Ivory produces a much more satisfactory result.
Suprising how many people dont like pianoteq. Im sure my opinion may change slightly as I play with it more and get used to it, but for now, although the K1 does sound a little too synthetic, I still am really enjoying it. The richness, overtones, and harmonics of the sounds (to my ear) makes up for any synthetic qualities it has.
1) No one complains that Pianoteq is non-responcive. No, it seems to have stepless velocity layers as you would expect of a model
2) The modeled sound is not as realistic as the recorded sound from a sampler set. You'd expect this too.
3) People who complain that the modeled sound is "too bright" or whatever have not experimented with the parameters. So far every one of the complaints (except as stated in #2 above) can be addressed. The model can make sound as bright or dull as you like even including imposable things like the sound of mettal hammers on glass strings or dull like a wooden xylophone.
There seem to be two kinds of pianists here, those who want a digital piano to mimic an acoustic piano and those who just want musical sound. The first group will never be happy for the second group I think Pianoteq canbe part of a solution. But it is only a link in a chain.
We can learn a lot from guitar players. They will listen to their tone and then think about what they can do to "fix" it. Owning a DP lets you do whatever you like to the sound. One solution posted in another thread is to layer Pianoteq over a sampled piano. One other idea might be run the output of a virtual piano into an analog synth (or digital simulation of one) and use the synth's filters on the piano sound and from there maybe to multi-band compression and EQ
Then amps and speakers. Most any guitarist can tell you the names of a half dozen speaker drivers and how they differ in tone. Most will even claim to prefer a certain brand of cable because of the way it sounds. But we never hear of DP players swapping out those low-end speakers inside their DPs for better parts or bypassing those "chip amps" for high-end valve based amps. What about re-verb? We tend to use very simple ones, the better ones allow you to define a 3D space with many reflective surfaces each with different properties. It can have a huge effect because of the way refection can add destructively or constructively. But we typically ignore all of this
What I'm getting at is that there are a thousand things you can do right now without having to wait for new technology, that would have very noticable effect on the sound but this does not seem to be in the piano culture. If the bass register is not what you like, it's all just numbers and bits inside a computer and after that paper speaker cones and crossovers and wire, nothing that can't be changed.
I second the opinion of most of the critical voices about Pianoteq. I also agree to ChrisA's statement.
I can't stand playing Pianoteq solo, but combining it with my CA63 (layered sound) makes it the perfect solution to add liveliness and perfect resonances, mask the looping and considerably prolong the decay time. I like it very much to play live sessions with my copy of Pianoteq Play and CA63 Concert Grand sound (see separate thread).
I like to think I got a nice tone out of it... (lots of fortissimo near the end, in case you're worried that it's all soft)
I do think they still have issues to resolve, particularly with the middle octave. But most sampled pianos I've played do have some weirdness to them in some respect. To the one who said Pianoteq sounds metallic, and to the one who said it sounds wooly, I agree. You can make it sound either way depending on which model you choose and how you tweak it. And to the one who said it sounds compressed, try turning off the limiter. Not sure why they even have it on by default. (Just lower the volume so you don't start clipping.)
it does sound nice, can you post your fxp here or at the pianoteq site?
No need to deny it, it just doesn't sound nice for many of us. I haven't yet found a single fxp that sounds realistically enough (in respect of piano-like realistic sound signature). And if there would be an fxp, why don't they provide it by default? Yes, it's very playable, yes it's tweakable, but you can't get it really realistic. I can hear the difference immediately. The only reason I bought it was the very nice resonance, which sounds very good in combination with the native CA63 Concert Grand sound.
I noticed this some with headphones, but its MUCH more apparent with my external sound system. Theres this upper bass ringing with almost any note below middle C. Its like someone put a gong over your head and smashed it. Some kind of overtone or something. Part of it can be blamed on my head being pretty much directly in between the stereo speakers which is definitely not the ideal position, but on either side of the piano is pretty much the only position I can have then in the computer room.
Definitely not an enjoyable sound. Granted it was present in the px-130 as well, but not nearly to this extent. Im going to mess around some more with the settings and see if I can minimize this.
Ok after some messing around, Ive realized that it is mostly due to the speaker placement - well more precisely my placement relative to the speakers. I have a pretty small bedroom and there is no way I can pull the piano away from the wall into the middle of the room to put some space between me and the speakers, so Ill just have to deal with it or use headphones.
I guess I could pull it out to play then put it back!
ChrisA:::: That is a very nice and accurate assessment! I mostly agree with what you are saying and also I want to state, that I don't wish to offend anyone who may have different opinions than I do.
All of these pianos are different. Some work well for certain applications and others for completely different applications.
For example, imagine Madonna's Vogue tune with a Steinway used in the piano break instead of a Korg M1. It would have sucked. The flat, plucked sound of the M1 piano makes the break.
I have a Steinway B as my real piano. I have it stretch tuned and very bright because I like the Yamaha C8 sound. Years ago I got to play Stevie Wonder's Yammy and it was so bright the fillings in my teeth were rattling! He told me, he likes it that way and pays a lot of money to his piano tech to keep it sounding like that. He was recording "Ribbon In The Sky" at the time, so judge for yourself. Most classical pianists will cringe because it's a "juiced" piano. That's kool.
My reviews are based upon my project studio which includes, Event, JBL and Focal monitors. My headphones are Sony 7506, AKG 701 and Sennheiser 650. My home system includes Hafler, Bryston and B&W speakers.
What is important most of all is that you choose the right piano sound for the gig. Enjoy!
I like to think I got a nice tone out of it... (lots of fortissimo near the end, in case you're worried that it's all soft)
it does sound nice, can you post your fxp here or at the pianoteq site?
I didn't save my settings. But it's basically the "C" model with slightly softened hammers for a warmer pianissimo, and the limiter turned off for more natural dynamic range. I also adjust the velocity curve so that depressing keys slowly enough won't produce any sound.
One note on Asio4all...You will never achieve optimum latency with that driver. Yes, if a decent driver for your sound card does not exist, Asio4all may be a last resort and in that case it may be the ticket for you. However, the professional solution is to find an ASIO driver specific driver for your sound card or chip set.
If you can't find this, you do not have a professional quality card unless you happen to have a a native WDM driver which would be rare as ASIO and WDM usually come packaged together.
One note on Asio4all...You will never achieve optimum latency with that driver. Yes, if a decent driver for your sound card does not exist, Asio4all may be a last resort and in that case it may be the ticket for you. However, the professional solution is to find an ASIO driver specific driver for your sound card or chip set.
If you can't find this, you do not have a professional quality card unless you happen to have a a native WDM driver which would be rare as ASIO and WDM usually come packaged together.
It's as simple as that.
I know, Im not a pro. My latency isnt bad, but its not great either. But I can live with it for now with my demo version of PTQ.
EDIT: For anyone who is interested, heres a little clip I recorded using the C3 close mic setting.
One note on Asio4all...You will never achieve optimum latency with that driver.
huh? I can get as low a latency as I need on asio4all (256 samples, 5.8ms) with no crackles, pops or any other issue, and this is with the onboard sound on my mobo, all these 'professional quality cards sound better' threads seem like the audiophile threads where people pay hundreds of dollars for a piece of 'interconnect' wire.
Now if you want to say that pro cards have better converters and better noise floors, sure, but latency/stability are only driver related, and there are plenty of horror stories of people with $$$ cards having issues due to crappy driver quality (or cards not being supported on 64bit systems etc.).
@MarcoM, I second that. I have the same asio4all setting and I`m getting almost immediate feedback from Pianoteq. This is especially critical in my case since I layer the sound with my hardware DP which should have very short latency. There is no audible delay/echo when striking a key.
I also have a so-called pro soundcard with a native ASIO driver, but there is no audible difference in latency between the two of them.
all these 'professional quality cards sound better' threads seem like the audiophile threads where people pay hundreds of dollars for a piece of 'interconnect' wire.
You talk about this as if it's witch-craft! Better interconnects=better sound...fact. Same must go for sound cards, it's illogical to suggest anything else.
I have an 8ms latency and it sounds great when playing 2 notes together, but play 3-4 and the smallest delay is just barely audible, and at 8-10 notes there is a noticeable delay. When I mash my hands on the keys and hit 15 or so keys it becomes bad, almost half a second. Is this typical or just my sound card / drivers??
P.S. Anyone hear the sound clip I posted?? Thoughts on the sound?
You talk about this as if it's witch-craft! Better interconnects=better sound...fact.
not for digital/optical interconnects (where people still get fleeced hundreds of dollars), and for analog interconnects as long as you are using decent cables (not the dollar store $1 special) you definitely don't need to spend hundreds... there have been plenty of double blind tests done where people weren't able to detect any difference.
I have an 8ms latency and it sounds great when playing 2 notes together, but play 3-4 and the smallest delay is just barely audible, and at 8-10 notes there is a noticeable delay. When I mash my hands on the keys and hit 15 or so keys it becomes bad, almost half a second. Is this typical or just my sound card / drivers??
if the latency is fine with 2 it should be fine with 200, if you are getting more latency with more notes likely it's a CPU issue, you might want to lower the number of microphones and/or sample rate etc. in pianoteq
I have an 8ms latency and it sounds great when playing 2 notes together, but play 3-4 and the smallest delay is just barely audible, and at 8-10 notes there is a noticeable delay. When I mash my hands on the keys and hit 15 or so keys it becomes bad, almost half a second. Is this typical or just my sound card / drivers??
if the latency is fine with 2 it should be fine with 200, if you are getting more latency with more notes likely it's a CPU issue, you might want to lower the number of microphones and/or sample rate etc. in pianoteq
Ill try that. But dang... Ive got a 3Ghz core 2 duo, didnt realize the program could cripple a processor like that!
I have an 8ms latency and it sounds great when playing 2 notes together, but play 3-4 and the smallest delay is just barely audible, and at 8-10 notes there is a noticeable delay. When I mash my hands on the keys and hit 15 or so keys it becomes bad, almost half a second. Is this typical or just my sound card / drivers??
if the latency is fine with 2 it should be fine with 200, if you are getting more latency with more notes likely it's a CPU issue, you might want to lower the number of microphones and/or sample rate etc. in pianoteq
Ill try that. But dang... Ive got a 3Ghz core 2 duo, didnt realize the program could cripple a processor like that!
It shouldn't, but he is correct. Latency is a function of the hardware and driver. Doesn't matter if it's 2 or 200 notes.
Pianoteq is considered a light on resources program as well so maybe something else is going on like other programs running etc?
I have an 8ms latency and it sounds great when playing 2 notes together, but play 3-4 and the smallest delay is just barely audible, and at 8-10 notes there is a noticeable delay. When I mash my hands on the keys and hit 15 or so keys it becomes bad, almost half a second. Is this typical or just my sound card / drivers??
if the latency is fine with 2 it should be fine with 200, if you are getting more latency with more notes likely it's a CPU issue, you might want to lower the number of microphones and/or sample rate etc. in pianoteq
Ill try that. But dang... Ive got a 3Ghz core 2 duo, didnt realize the program could cripple a processor like that!
It shouldn't, but he is correct. Latency is a function of the hardware and driver. Doesn't matter if it's 2 or 200 notes.
Pianoteq is considered a light on resources program as well so maybe something else is going on like other programs running etc?
It could be the ASIO4ALL drivers and my sound card being complete crap??
The "Performance" tab in the options menu will give you an idea of how well your CPU is holding up. You may want to experiment with enabling/disabling multicore rendering. But it's entirely likely that either the audio drivers, or something else running on your system is contributing.
If you continue having trouble, I'd suggest asking at the Pianoteq forum.
The "Performance" tab in the options menu will give you an idea of how well your CPU is holding up. You may want to experiment with enabling/disabling multicore rendering. But it's entirely likely that either the audio drivers, or something else running on your system is contributing.
If you continue having trouble, I'd suggest asking at the Pianoteq forum.
Hmm, my performance index is usually around 50, and ive messed with the multicore rendering. Ill keep playing around, but Id bet its my sound card.
Originally Posted by EJR
It may be a configurtion issue....
My laptop is running pianoteq at 2.7ms. One tip is to run at 96000hz since this lowers latency (compared to 48000)
I have no option for run above 48kHz... in ASIO mode. Must be my sound card.
It could be the ASIO4ALL drivers and my sound card being complete crap??
I really doubt it, if you have fine latency with 2 notes, you should have fine latency regardless of how many you play (as long as your CPU can keep up). I am surprised though seeing you having issues at low polyphony on a C2D, I have tried pianoteq on a macbook pro and it had no problems at all keeping up.
It could be the ASIO4ALL drivers and my sound card being complete crap??
I really doubt it, if you have fine latency with 2 notes, you should have fine latency regardless of how many you play (as long as your CPU can keep up). I am surprised though seeing you having issues at low polyphony on a C2D, I have tried pianoteq on a macbook pro and it had no problems at all keeping up.
+1 He should have no troubles at all with that hardware.
It could be the ASIO4ALL drivers and my sound card being complete crap??
I really doubt it, if you have fine latency with 2 notes, you should have fine latency regardless of how many you play (as long as your CPU can keep up). I am surprised though seeing you having issues at low polyphony on a C2D, I have tried pianoteq on a macbook pro and it had no problems at all keeping up.
+1 He should have no troubles at all with that hardware.
Interesting... Ill have to check to make sure its all functioning correctly and at 100% speed. My computer has been taking ages to boot in the last 6-9 months... alot longer than it used to and I cant figure out why. Dont know if that has anything to do with it. Pianoteq recognized my CPU as running @ 3GHz, Ill check my processes and whatnot to kill anything that doesnt need to run.
I can run Pianoteq Play on a Netbook with Atom single core Processor at 1.6GHz and 1GB memory. Mine has a performance index of 9 in Pianoteq, and that's sufficient for 48 notes polyphony without any glitches and with latency = 256 samples / 5.6ms.
Sounds like there's a lot of background stuff clogging up the works.
sounds like somebody has a spyware/malware infestation...
Im running a spyware scan as we speak but I rarely get spyware and havent had any for a while. Ive noticed that my PC uses more memory at idle than it used to for the past 6 months or so. There are tons of services running in task manager but I have 3.3 gigs so its not a big deal.
Very weird thing happened earlier, just played it and there were no latency issues. Turned it off, came back 30 minutes later and the latency issues returned! I can set it as low as 4ms and still get horrible latency with 10 notes played. Gotta be a driver issue... Looks like a nice sound card may be in order.
What is the chipset of your sound card? I wouldn't purchase a new sound card yet until you look at possible software/spyware/utilities running etc first.
How much memory do you have and what OS and version are you running?
Like others have said, latency isn't dependent upon the number of notes played. Now, stuttering or crackles and pops are usually related to using too low a latency and the CPU gets overloaded. Turning up the latency slider in you sound card control panel will fix that.
Do you get the same problems running standalone and also as a VSTi within a DAW program like say Reaper?
It could also be a hosed install.
I suspect you might have a lot of stuff running in the background and it's sucking up processor cycles causing the program to act strange.
What is the chipset of your sound card? I wouldn't purchase a new sound card yet until you look at possible software/spyware/utilities running etc first.
How much memory do you have and what OS and version are you running?
Like others have said, latency isn't dependent upon the number of notes played. Now, stuttering or crackles and pops are usually related to using too low a latency and the CPU gets overloaded. Turning up the latency slider in you sound card control panel will fix that.
Do you get the same problems running standalone and also as a VSTi within a DAW program like say Reaper?
It could also be a hosed install.
I suspect you might have a lot of stuff running in the background and it's sucking up processor cycles causing the program to act strange.
How much memory do you have?
Originally Posted by JoeyIsFunny
...but I have 3.3 gigs so its not a big deal.
I actually have 4GB but 32 bit OS so its around 3.3. Its Vista SP2, and I dont have any other programs besides PTQ... I cant imagine the processes running would eat up my CPU, the CPU load in task manager idles around 3%.
[quote=jscomposer]I like to think I got a nice tone out of it...
it does sound nice, can you post your fxp here or at the pianoteq site?
No need to deny it, it just doesn't sound nice for many of us. I haven't yet found a single fxp that sounds realistically enough (in respect of piano-like realistic sound signature). And if there would be an fxp, why don't they provide it by default? Yes, it's very playable, yes it's tweakable, but you can't get it really realistic. I can hear the difference immediately. The only reason I bought it was the very nice resonance, which sounds very good in combination with the native CA63 Concert Grand sound.
I have to agree with mucci when I mix the roland Hp207 with pianoteq I get a better piano sound than pianoteq alone.I would like to know how you have setup your kawai with pianoteq. I have connected my roland to my laptop using a usb from the piano directly to the laptop and connected a lead from the headphone socket in the laptop to the inputs at the back of the roland,but by doing this way I get noise inteferance from the piano. If I plug headphones into the laptop it works fine using pianoteq only, but then I cant mix my roland sound with pianoteq.
C2D @ 2.0ghz 2gb of RAM Sound: Realteq High Definition Sound (onboard) Driver: Yamaha for DGX-230 Connection type: USB SO: Windows 7 64x
Installed pianoteq and playing with low latency, I dont know how to check the latency, but it was playing very nice, I adjust to 128 poliphony, sustain pedal and played very quickly to get a lot of poliphony used and no lag at all.
I was trying to install ASIO4ALL but didnt understant how to do that, so I stayed with normal drivers and it sounds nice to play at home =D
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
I have to agree with mucci when I mix the roland Hp207 with pianoteq I get a better piano sound than pianoteq alone.I would like to know how you have setup your kawai with pianoteq. I have connected my roland to my laptop using a usb from the piano directly to the laptop and connected a lead from the headphone socket in the laptop to the inputs at the back of the roland,but by doing this way I get noise inteferance from the piano. If I plug headphones into the laptop it works fine using pianoteq only, but then I cant mix my roland sound with pianoteq.
Well there's a nice feature in CA63: You can directly connect the headphone out with line in of CA63, and you have a gain control slider for the line in. That way you can mix both the internal sound and the line in sound with each other to your liking. No noise at all!
C2D @ 2.0ghz 2gb of RAM Sound: Realteq High Definition Sound (onboard) Driver: Yamaha for DGX-230 Connection type: USB SO: Windows 7 64x
Installed pianoteq and playing with low latency, I dont know how to check the latency, but it was playing very nice, I adjust to 128 poliphony, sustain pedal and played very quickly to get a lot of poliphony used and no lag at all.
I was trying to install ASIO4ALL but didnt understant how to do that, so I stayed with normal drivers and it sounds nice to play at home =D
For me, I just installed the ASIO4ALL drivers and that was it, good to go. Just went into pianoteq options and changed output from directsound (or whatever) to ASIO and it worked.
One little thing I often find myself doing is moving the middle hammer hardness slider (Mezzo) quite a long way towards the left, because Pianoteq seems to have a bias towards the forte timbres, at least with my keyboard. When I do this, the timbre change from pp to ff seems more natural and linear to me.
I do also make a few very subtle changes to the velocity curve to match my keyboard.
Was playing some more tonight and had none of the latency issues I had before. It seems to pick and choose its good days. And I also have noticed the hammer hardness and brightness of the pianos. Im always making them a little mellower too.
Lastly, can I use a continuous pedal on my px-130 with pianoteq? The px-130 doesnt support continuous pedals, but since pianoteq does can I use one?? Or is the limitation in the px-130 going to nullify the pianoteq capability?
I have connected my roland to my laptop using a usb from the piano directly to the laptop and connected a lead from the headphone socket in the laptop to the inputs at the back of the roland,but by doing this way I get noise inteferance from the piano. If I plug headphones into the laptop it works fine using pianoteq only, but then I cant mix my roland sound with pianoteq.
That is a very common problem. I also get humming and digital noise, when I connect my notebook with my Kawai CN-33.
I've been looking for a nice software piano because I'm tired of the sound of my Roland HP 201.
Based on the demos I think I'm going for Synthogy Ivory. But Pianoteq seems interesting too.
I assume both will work good enough on a PC with 2,4Ghz dual core, 3GB ram and M-Audio Audiophile card?
You may also try Galaxy Vintage D. It sounds really great. Just google a little. And the Galaxy Pianos are not as demanding concerning computer power as the Synthogy Pianos.
I've been looking for a nice software piano because I'm tired of the sound of my Roland HP 201.
Based on the demos I think I'm going for Synthogy Ivory. But Pianoteq seems interesting too.
I assume both will work good enough on a PC with 2,4Ghz dual core, 3GB ram and M-Audio Audiophile card?
By the way, is there any difference in performance when connecting the Roland with a basic MIDI cable to PC, or with a USB midi cable?
As long as the driver works there should be no difference between the MIDI cable or the USB. See which one works better if you have both cables. You might get lower latency with the MIDI and M-Audio card but try them both.
Ivory needs a fast disk but isn't too heavy on CPU. If you have 2 disks, install Ivory on the one that doesn't contain your operating system if possible.
PianoTeq is interesting, but for me Ivory is much better, more realistic sounding and plays better as a solo piano. Specifically the C7 and Italian Grand. I don't care for the Bosendorfer and the Steinway is good but not great IMHO.
I'm going to give Galaxy a try as well because a lot of people are liking the new Steinway.
C2D @ 2.0ghz 2gb of RAM Sound: Realteq High Definition Sound (onboard) Driver: Yamaha for DGX-230 Connection type: USB SO: Windows 7 64x
Installed pianoteq and playing with low latency, I dont know how to check the latency, but it was playing very nice, I adjust to 128 poliphony, sustain pedal and played very quickly to get a lot of poliphony used and no lag at all.
I was trying to install ASIO4ALL but didnt understant how to do that, so I stayed with normal drivers and it sounds nice to play at home =D
For me, I just installed the ASIO4ALL drivers and that was it, good to go. Just went into pianoteq options and changed output from directsound (or whatever) to ASIO and it worked.
Ok... I resolved it. I had the wrong files =/ now I downloaded the .exe from ASIO4ALL and it is working GREAT, almost no delay at all.
By the way, anyone knows how to record music from pianoteq using another record program, not using the pianoteq inside one? (when I record from pianoteq the sounds didnt sounds the same that whein I was playing)
Thanks.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
[quote=JoeyIsFunny][quote=virtu]My notebook how to record music from pianoteq using another record program, not using the pianoteq inside one? (when I record from pianoteq the sounds didnt sounds the same that whein I was playing)
That depends on your soundcard, not all the drivers work the same way, but if you have one that allows you to record the "Stereo Mix" (which is quite common), it is the more direct way to do it. Just select the "Stereo Mix" instead of "Line In" as the source for recording in the Windows Mixer or the recording program.
Anyway, that is strange as Pianoteq renders the WAV into a file directly so what you get there is what the program is going to send to the soundcard. If it does not sound the same then something is going on during the reproduction that is changing something.
I'm using a Casio PX-110 and I've finally woken up to the fact that I can connect it to my PC and use a software piano. So I've downloaded a demo of Pianoteq Play and installed it on my Acer Aspire laptop. My midi-USB lead should arrive today hopefully!
The Casio PX-110 actually sounds quite good as a standalone DP. The piano voice is good (harpsichord is terrible though) and the built in speakers also sound good. It also sounds great on my Sennheiser headphones.
Now although I can't connect the Casio to the laptop until my lead arrives, I did a quick comparison by plugging my Sennheiser headphones into the laptop running Pianoteq (and clicking piano keys with the mouse) and then comparing with the Casio / Sennheisers. I would say the Casio sounds better.
So my question is this: presumably to get the best out of Pianoteq I will have to use my desktop PC with a decent soundcard and speakers, as it appears the soundchips in the Acer laptop can't match the Casio for performance. What sort of soundcard / speakers would you all recommend, or should it be possible to get the laptop / Sennheiser combo to outperform the Casio / Sennheiser combo? (My desktop also has on-board sound chips albeit on a Gigabyte motherboard). I'm also assuming that I can't feed the output of the PC back into the Casio via midi and use the Casio speakers, whilst still having Pianoteq voices?
Now although I can't connect the Casio to the laptop until my lead arrives, I did a quick comparison by plugging my Sennheiser headphones into the laptop running Pianoteq (and clicking piano keys with the mouse) and then comparing with the Casio / Sennheisers. I would say the Casio sounds better.
So my question is this: presumably to get the best out of Pianoteq I will have to use my desktop PC with a decent soundcard and speakers, as it appears the soundchips in the Acer laptop can't match the Casio for performance. What sort of soundcard / speakers would you all recommend, or should it be possible to get the laptop / Sennheiser combo to outperform the Casio / Sennheiser combo? (My desktop also has on-board sound chips albeit on a Gigabyte motherboard). I'm also assuming that I can't feed the output of the PC back into the Casio via midi and use the Casio speakers, whilst still having Pianoteq voices?
You can get a very good performance from your laptop... as far as you get an external USB audio interface. There are integrated sound chips quite good, but for getting the best results, a sound card is needed. There are also integrated sound chips that performs quite bad... so, at best, using integrated sound you would get a good performance.
There is a second point: connecting your Sennheiser headphones (probably with an impedance of 64 ohms) directly to an integrated sound chip output is not the way to get the best from your headphones. Some sound cards have headphone outputs that can drive such headphones, but not the integrated chip in a laptop.
So, in your tests you are not getting the best from Pianoteq.
In your case I would go for an amp and a decent speakers. The headphones will sound nice plugged to your amp, and that may notably improve the built-in speakers. But the drawback, of course, is cost.
Is it worth to buy a dedicated soundcard if you have a decent onboard chip in your desktop? I am in that dilemma. I have a Gigabyte motherboard with an integrated Realtek ALC888 sound chip, which, looking at the reviews and the tests I've done, is quite good for an integrated sound chip. I am thinking in buying a M-Audio Audiophile 2496, which is not an expensive card, and has a better performance that the one I have now, but botter enough to make it worth buying? I have no answer yet...
I'm using a Casio PX-110 and I've finally woken up to the fact that I can connect it to my PC and use a software piano. So I've downloaded a demo of Pianoteq Play and installed it on my Acer Aspire laptop. My midi-USB lead should arrive today hopefully!
The Casio PX-110 actually sounds quite good as a standalone DP. The piano voice is good (harpsichord is terrible though) and the built in speakers also sound good. It also sounds great on my Sennheiser headphones.
Now although I can't connect the Casio to the laptop until my lead arrives, I did a quick comparison by plugging my Sennheiser headphones into the laptop running Pianoteq (and clicking piano keys with the mouse) and then comparing with the Casio / Sennheisers. I would say the Casio sounds better.
So my question is this: presumably to get the best out of Pianoteq I will have to use my desktop PC with a decent soundcard and speakers, as it appears the soundchips in the Acer laptop can't match the Casio for performance. What sort of soundcard / speakers would you all recommend, or should it be possible to get the laptop / Sennheiser combo to outperform the Casio / Sennheiser combo? (My desktop also has on-board sound chips albeit on a Gigabyte motherboard). I'm also assuming that I can't feed the output of the PC back into the Casio via midi and use the Casio speakers, whilst still having Pianoteq voices?
I can tell you for a fact that Pianoteq is a much truer and quality sound than your px-110. I have the px-130 and pianoteq is an improvement. Its very deceiving when you click the on-screen keys to test the sound. It sounds much better when you are actually playing and can properly control the dynamics and play more than one note at a time!!
If you have powered external speakers (like for a desktop) you can hook up to your laptop, they should have a headphone jack. Plug your headphones into THAT jack, not the soundcard jack, and see if it makes a difference in quality. Not sure it will, but just try it anyway. It could just be that you have a low end onboard sound card. Is your pianoteq playing at 44000/48000 Hz? If its not, try to get it set up to because you will get a better sound from it.
Also, why did you get pianoteq play and not standard???
The main point is that modelled sounds can, and often do, PLAY beautifully. I know this having been the owner of a V-Piano and still being the owner of a RD-1000. The player to sound connection can be considerably better than even a good sampled piano...the change in timbre according to key pressure and the overall dynamics can make these things very rewarding. BUT, you have to find a way to live with reduced sonic realism. The V-piano was not too bad but I couldn't live with it in the long run because it sounds artificial and processed, especially in the mid-range. The treble and bass areas (especially the bass) were magnificent....completely beyond criticism in my opinion.
I should say right now, I have never played Pianoteq, but I always give any demos a listen in the hope that someone has tweaked the coldness out, the ringing metallic eeriness that seems to occur in the upper mids...a sound that completely lacks warmth or soul in my view...the attack portion of the sound seems wrong and I have yet to hear any Pianoteq demo that I could live with...it leaves me utterly cold. But I do not doubt for one minute that it could be a rewarding thing to PLAY, just not to LISTEN to, because it is not sufficiently like a piano yet.
Also, why did you get pianoteq play and not standard???
I downloaded the Pianoteq Play demo because I would seriously consider buying it immediately at that price if it is any good. The standard version is a lot more expensive and I'm not sure I'm at high enough playing level to make use of all the extra features.
My midi-USB lead has just arrived, so I will be giving Pianoteq a proper test shortly.
I should say right now, I have never played Pianoteq, but I always give any demos a listen in the hope that someone has tweaked the coldness out, the ringing metallic eeriness that seems to occur in the upper mids...a sound that completely lacks warmth or soul in my view...the attack portion of the sound seems wrong and I have yet to hear any Pianoteq demo that I could live with...it leaves me utterly cold. But I do not doubt for one minute that it could be a rewarding thing to PLAY, just not to LISTEN to, because it is not sufficiently like a piano yet.
I think it comes down to expectations. The OP has a low-end DP, so Pianoteq must surely give better sound. I have a Clavinova. Pianoteq seems like a step down.
So with that in mind, I wonder where Pianoteq would make sense?
It's pretty expensive. If you have a basic keyboard, and then add Pianoteq and a PC and a sound card ... you've spent a lot. I think you could spend less simply by purchasing a P155. You'd get better sound and a much better keyboard action. And you wouldn't need to mess with all of the hookups. You wouldn't have to troubleshoot problems. You wouldn't have to deal with latency issues.
If, instead, you have a high-end DP, then Pianoteq won't help the sound. IMO, it sounds worse. So just where in the marketplace does Pianoteq "fit"?
- Netbook with Atom 1.6GHz and Windows 7 Starter (about 250-300 Euro, only needed if you want a dedicated machine for playing piano) - Pianoteq Play (99 Euro)
If you have a keyboard that can handle USB, then nothing else is needed, otherwise an inexpensive MIDI-Interface (~30 Euro)
That's altogether about min. 100 Euro to about max. 400 Euro.
To get the sound even better, you could combine the DP sound with Pianoteq, so that it sounds more realistic.
It might not be better than a P155, but it's definitely cheaper.
Hi, I have been using Pianoteq a couple of months now and I must say it is better than *any* other DP I have tried. Of course it is all a matter of personal taste.
What I like about Pianoteq: * When using speakers (inside the DP) you can adjust "virtual microphones" to the placement of the speakers. This will give you phase-correct sound. Smashing quality attribute really, it sounds as there are actually *strings* in your piano, at the right place. * Ability to fine tune (detune) and make the instrument more realistic.
You could listen to a recording I just finished to find out.. http://linnman.net/clair3.mp3 I have done the recording on a modified setup (based on the "C3") with shortened string length, and slight detuning.
Having received my midi-USB lead I've now connected my laptop to my Casio PX-110. Unfortunately I've hit a snag straightaway because I'm getting lots of midi errors. If I hit a note repeatedly, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes a different note sounds etc. The midi log within Pianoteq always registers something when I hit or release a note, but the message received varies wildly. I've put the laptop into high power mode and the processor frequency is shown correctly within Pianoteq. My immediate thought is that the very cheap £5 midi-USB lead from Ebay is at fault. The lead looks good and uses screened wire. What do you think?
Hi, I have been using Pianoteq a couple of months now and I must say it is better than *any* other DP I have tried. Of course it is all a matter of personal taste.
What I like about Pianoteq: * When using speakers (inside the DP) you can adjust "virtual microphones" to the placement of the speakers. This will give you phase-correct sound. Smashing quality attribute really, it sounds as there are actually *strings* in your piano, at the right place. * Ability to fine tune (detune) and make the instrument more realistic.
You could listen to a recording I just finished to find out.. http://linnman.net/clair3.mp3 I have done the recording on a modified setup (based on the "C3") with shortened string length, and slight detuning.
Cheers /August
Simple Amazing... "aplauses" If you don´t mind, can you share your preset, pianoteq version and computer settings?
Thanks.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
I have to agree with a previous poster that Pianoteq PLAYS superbly, and does sound a bit artificial. But I must add that the (mildly, compared to good DPs) artificial sounds are much more than made up for in the vast amounts of character and resonance Pianoteq produces in its piano models. Id rather play Pianoteq with a somewhat artificial piano sound than a DP with a good piano sound but artificial resonance and timbre response. It just sounds so ALIVE to me, I love it.
Originally Posted by PhilzPiano
Having received my midi-USB lead I've now connected my laptop to my Casio PX-110. Unfortunately I've hit a snag straightaway because I'm getting lots of midi errors. If I hit a note repeatedly, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes a different note sounds etc. The midi log within Pianoteq always registers something when I hit or release a note, but the message received varies wildly. I've put the laptop into high power mode and the processor frequency is shown correctly within Pianoteq. My immediate thought is that the very cheap £5 midi-USB lead from Ebay is at fault. The lead looks good and uses screened wire. What do you think?
You know you could just go to a local electronics store and buy a cheap USB A/B cable, they are standard USB printer cables. I doubt its the cable producing issues. Are you using direct sound or ASIO?? Check the options and sound settings. Try downloading the ASIO4ALL drivers and then see how it sounds.
I have to agree with a previous poster that Pianoteq PLAYS superbly, and does sound a bit artificial. But I must add that the (mildly, compared to good DPs) artificial sounds are much more than made up for in the vast amounts of character and resonance Pianoteq produces in its piano models. Id rather play Pianoteq with a somewhat artificial piano sound than a DP with a good piano sound but artificial resonance and timbre response. It just sounds so ALIVE to me, I love it.
So why not having the best of both worlds by blending your favourite DP sound with Pianoteq?
I have to agree with a previous poster that Pianoteq PLAYS superbly, and does sound a bit artificial. But I must add that the (mildly, compared to good DPs) artificial sounds are much more than made up for in the vast amounts of character and resonance Pianoteq produces in its piano models. Id rather play Pianoteq with a somewhat artificial piano sound than a DP with a good piano sound but artificial resonance and timbre response. It just sounds so ALIVE to me, I love it.
So why not having the best of both worlds by blending your favourite DP sound with Pianoteq?
Because the px-130 isnt one of my favorite piano sounds. I think Pianoteq is better in every way. Im actually very glad I didnt buy a more expensive DP because I cant see myself ever going back to a built-in DP sound. The px-130 on its own has good sound for the price of a DP and the action is good, the latter being all that matters in a midi controller for Pianoteq. For the $1000 range though, I will say the P155 comes close to the richness of pianoteq, and the samples are very very good. This may be the only DP in the under $1500 range that I would play besides Pianoteq.
I have to agree with a previous poster that Pianoteq PLAYS superbly, and does sound a bit artificial. But I must add that the (mildly, compared to good DPs) artificial sounds are much more than made up for in the vast amounts of character and resonance Pianoteq produces in its piano models. Id rather play Pianoteq with a somewhat artificial piano sound than a DP with a good piano sound but artificial resonance and timbre response. It just sounds so ALIVE to me, I love it.
So why not having the best of both worlds by blending your favourite DP sound with Pianoteq?
Because the px-130 isnt one of my favorite piano sounds. I think Pianoteq is better in every way. Im actually very glad I didnt buy a more expensive DP because I cant see myself ever going back to a built-in DP sound. The px-130 on its own has good sound for the price of a DP and the action is good, the latter being all that matters in a midi controller for Pianoteq. For the $1000 range though, I will say the P155 comes close to the richness of pianoteq, and the samples are very very good. This may be the only DP in the under $1500 range (that I have personally heard) that I would play besides Pianoteq.
These three presets are identical, except for different microphone settings. (Headphone playing, Playing with DP speakers, and recording..). Switch between these three setups depending on what you are doing..
I have tweaked keyboard response curves and pedal for my Yamaha GT2. For another keyboard you will of course need to tweak again, in order to get correct dynamics and pedal response.
The instrument is a modified "C3" with shortened strings, slightly modified hammer action, slight detuning and some imperfections in dampers.
Edit: The pianoteq version is 3.6.3. I have installed it on two computers. One netbook which is connected to my digital piano. The netbook is running Linux. I have also installed it on my powerhorse computer running Windows 7. On this computer I make the recordings (transforming MIDI to WAV/MP3/WMV/Youtube etc). Doing this saves some time since it can be CPU-intensive.
Regarding setup of everything else (hardware and stuff) see my previous post: https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1428197/Re:%20Value%20%20of%20a%20Yamaha%20GranTou.html#Post1428197
I think a nice hardware setup to play with pianoteq could be:
DP Yamaha P85:midi ports no USB here M-Audio Fast Track Pro: audio/midi interface with a very nice sound quality Desktop/Notebook/Netbook: anyone with a nice CPU and RAM enough (like Intel C2D and 2GB of RAM) Speakers: another polemic and personal subject (leave this discussion to other topics, let´s try to focus on a nice budget hardware to play around with Pianoteq.
This is not THE BUDGET one because the audio/midi interface, but with this one you can have a very good sound quality, above average in my opinion.
Right now I have to upgrade just my keyboard (Yamaha DGX230) to one Yamaha P85 or P95 (I am in Brazil and here this stuffs aren´t cheap) and the audio/midi interface.
What do they thing about this hardware setup?
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
Well I finally have Pianoteq working. The midi-USB cable, (note this is not an A-B USB cable it's an actual midi to USB interface converter), was indeed at fault. I got one from a local store for 6 times the price of the Ebay version and it works perfectly. I updated the sound drivers on the laptop to reduce the latency (which was pretty bad initially) and now it's all working beautifully. Having had a lengthy play with it I would say the Pianoteq sound is definitely clearer than the Casio sound. All I need now is to sort out an amp and speakers!
Here's a little clip of me playing through pianoteq. Nothing much, just messing around with some chords and making all kinds of mistakes. I wanted to demonstrate the "C3 Worn Out" sound, I softened the dampers a tad from the stock setting. Chime in with your thoughts on the sound, but not my playing!!!
I'm currently evaluating the demo version of Pianoteq Play and it seems to work really well apart from the fact that I get crackling sounds after about 15 mins. If I shut Pianoteq down and re-start it the crackling disappears for another 15 mins. Anyone else experienced this? Obviously being a demo version it stops working completely after 20 mins, but I don't think this is related to the crackle.
By the way, is there any difference in performance when connecting the Roland with a basic MIDI cable to PC, or with a USB midi cable?
That is something that is unclear to me, and I would like to have clarification for that.
Windows uses a polling rate of 125 Hz for HID USB devices. If the same polling rate is used for USB MIDI then this would mean that MIDI has a timing aperture window of 8ms. (That would mean, latency would be average 4ms, but can vary randomly between 8ms and 0ms.) However I use a Edirol interface that works only with a dedicated driver. Such a driver should be able to increase the polling rate. And indeed the Edirol has an option "light load" for MIDI. There is, however no explanation for it.
If anybody knows this definitely, I would like to have information about this.
Peter
Edit:
I did a test: I enabled the display of realtime messages in MIDI OX and connected my Kawai Piano.
I used the stock Windowsw driver with Kawai's USB interface and my EDIROL UA 4FX with the normal MIDI setting and with the setting "lighter load for MIDI".
Then I examinded the differences of the timestamps for the MIDI clock messages.
In no case I found a timing jitter larger than 1ms. Ok, 1ms doesnt hurt and that is the resolution of the timestamp. So this the best result that can be expected.
So, at least with Vista there shouldnt be a problem there. If there are doubts about this, ok this is the method to measure it.....
Peter
Last edited by hpeterh; 07/16/1003:53 PM.
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6
Nice recording. (is that the Yamaha, just out of curiousity?)
RE: MIDI, every note-on or note-off takes about 1ms to transmit over traditional MIDI, so just a 4-note chord takes it up to the average USB latency. The advantage of USB is that as the density of MIDI date increases, the latency should (I think) stay constant, because of the very high data rate of USB. I.e - that 0 to 8ms latency should at least stay constant.
I'm currently evaluating the demo version of Pianoteq Play and it seems to work really well apart from the fact that I get crackling sounds after about 15 mins. If I shut Pianoteq down and re-start it the crackling disappears for another 15 mins. Anyone else experienced this? Obviously being a demo version it stops working completely after 20 mins, but I don't think this is related to the crackle.
OK I solved the problem and this info may be of use to others. The problem lies with the ASIO4ALL driver that you have to use in order to reduce latency. If you are using Realtek Audio, open the ASIO control console from within Pianoteq and ensure that only one device is enabled in the WDM list. Mine had the mic input enabled too and that leads to crackling after 10 mins. Weird but true.
Here's a little clip of me playing through pianoteq. Nothing much, just messing around with some chords and making all kinds of mistakes. I wanted to demonstrate the "C3 Worn Out" sound, I softened the dampers a tad from the stock setting. Chime in with your thoughts on the sound, but not my playing!!!
I don't know about anyone else, but all I get from clicking "download" or "play" on that page are ads and offers. (Same with the last clip you uploaded to that site.)
But, if you "view source" you'll see the right download link. It'll look like this:
That link won't work because the last several characters change every time you view the page. You gotta go to the page and "view source" yourself. (Once there, search for "mp3" to find the link faster.)
Anyway, sounds great, except for around the middle octave. But it seems that's always been the case with Pianoteq. Wish they'd devote some serious time to addressing that nasal/synthy middle octave.
Anyway, sounds great, except for around the middle octave. But it seems that's always been the case with Pianoteq. Wish they'd devote some serious time to addressing that nasal/synthy middle octave.
I don't know about anyone else, but all I get from clicking "download" or "play" on that page are ads and offers. (Same with the last clip you uploaded to that site.)
But, if you "view source" you'll see the right download link. It'll look like this:
That link won't work because the last several characters change every time you view the page. You gotta go to the page and "view source" yourself. (Once there, search for "mp3" to find the link faster.)
Anyway, sounds great, except for around the middle octave. But it seems that's always been the case with Pianoteq. Wish they'd devote some serious time to addressing that nasal/synthy middle octave.
You dont follow directions well do you?? Read what the text of my link in my post says. You gotta look at the bottom right where it says save to PC, then click the "click here" link.
But thanks for listening! I agree about the middle octaves, it is Pianoteq's weak point, but I still think it sounds pretty good!
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Originally Posted by JoeyIsFunny
We should start a compilation thread of the different sounds of all of our DPs. Or is there one already made?
You dont follow directions well do you?? Read what the text of my link in my post says. You gotta look at the bottom right where it says save to PC, then click the "click here" link.
Y'know, I did look for that. Now I see it. It's so freaking tiny, and not exactly in the bottom right. What a bullsh*tting site.
Me too. For a site where the MAIN function is downloading files, you'd think it would offer a download link near the top of the page. As web-usability expert Jacob Nielsen likes to say (as have newspaper people for centuries) ... "nobody likes to read below the fold."
Sorry to ask here, but is there some way to get a nice save to try to buy Pianoteq Play v3.6.3 (the one that costs 99 euros). That´s so much expensive for me =(
But maybe with a nice save I can support it.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
Yeah I need to start using a new site for my uploads. And if you can get your youtube video in 720p, isnt the audio quality at or above 192 kbps?? Thats good enough for any piano audio for a quick listen. I honestly cant tell the difference once it gets above 192 kbps.
Not actually very useful, since the audio quality is so poor.
The quality from You Tube is as good as the quality from the author. Good stuff in, good stuff out. Or, conversely, garbage in, garbage out.
Take a look at videos by "kylelandry" on youtube, even in 360p with 96kbps audio or whatever it is, the quality is still good and his piano sounds amazing.
Not actually very useful, since the audio quality is so poor.
The quality from You Tube is as good as the quality from the author. Good stuff in, good stuff out. Or, conversely, garbage in, garbage out.
Take a look at videos by "kylelandry" on youtube, even in 360p with 96kbps audio or whatever it is, the quality is still good and his piano sounds amazing.
I've been using Pianoteq Play for about a week now, finally got it really working, and I'm just loving it. I had to do an upgrade to my computer to an Athlon dual core motherboard and processor to get it really working. The demo worked OK on my old 1400mhz if I cut the sample rate wa-a-y down, and played re-a-l slo-o-o-ow ;-). The new MB/CPU handles it quite nicely.
It wasn't a great "out of the box" experience. The sound was kind of thin and metallic and the dynamics were really lacking. I have a Korg SP170, and there's no velocity curve posted on the user forum. Apparently for some reason the SP170 uses only 0-80 on the velocity scale rather than up to 127. I set the max at 80 and put a concave curve, increased the dynamic range a little, turned off the limiter, and, wow! I think the main problem with the tone was that I was just cranking up the volume on soft timbre.
Another thing, speakers really make a difference. The little oval speakers on a slab piano are great for what they're meant to do, but they're, well, little oval speakers. I looked at the Logitech THX 2.1, and they're overkill for what I need. I ended up getting Eagle/Arion speakers for $50. They look nice and sound great. Yes, the cables are too short, the controls suck, the power switch is in the backer of the woofer, but they sound great at the volume I can keep my lease at. And they cost $50.
I'm using the Linux 32bit version on Kubuntu 8.04 with the ALSA back end. I'll probably install the 64bit when I get around to installing the 64bit OS.
Little recording, I started off so well... flubbed it up big time though! Either way Im proud of my progress on this beautiful song. First real song besides some one page ultra beginner A grade pieces Ive learned from sheet music. Going to take a long time to finish it, but I think I have a good start!
Another little clip, this time with the "C3 Worn Out" setting with unison width increased some.
Its the second half of Chopin's prelude in C minor, I dont have the music for it, I learned this by ear one day after hearing the piece a few times and didnt have the audio clip with me to listen to as I was remembering it, so there may be some wrong notes in my interpretation.
Some black keys are disabled so you may hear that as well.
I have a M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 running through Pianissimo and it is the most realistic piano sound I have found, however you are restricted to play only the Steinway D, but the sampling is simply amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/user/carlosj116/videos ----------------------------------------------------- Main Pieces I'm Learning: Alkan : Le Chemin De Fer Alkan : Scherzo Diabolico Mussorgsky-Chernov : Night on a Bald Mountain Liszt : Transcendental Etude 4 "Mazeppa"
I'm using the Linux 32bit version on Kubuntu 8.04 with the ALSA back end. I'll probably install the 64bit when I get around to installing the 64bit OS.
I put Pinguy 64 bit Linux on a laptop a couple of weeks ago. Not sure about specific audio support, but I highly recommend it for those who are new to Linux and/or those who don't like to install/tweak a lot after the OS install. Wireless support is better than Mint, which I also tried (and got rid of).
I have a M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 running through Pianissimo and it is the most realistic piano sound I have found, however you are restricted to play only the Steinway D, but the sampling is simply amazing.
Just so we know, have you tried other sampled pianos? Pianissimo is one of the lower ranked sampled pianos, easily beaten technically by pianos such as Ivory and Galaxy, and I think there's a consensus here that it doesn't sound as good either. Though it's not a very common piano, so maybe there just isn't enough data on it. I only mention this because I played pianissimo and I found it very much lacking compared to better sampled pianos. You might have the same experience.
If so, perhaps your last phrase should be "sampling is simply amazing" referring to sampled software pianos in general, rather than Pianissimo specifically. Even poor software pianos are, indeed, very impressive in terms of sound quality, especially if you are comparing them to onboard sounds.
I have played a 1980s Steinway D recently and found that the Pianissimo is the closest to the sound of that particular piano, ive tried most out and they dont really appeal to me
http://www.youtube.com/user/carlosj116/videos ----------------------------------------------------- Main Pieces I'm Learning: Alkan : Le Chemin De Fer Alkan : Scherzo Diabolico Mussorgsky-Chernov : Night on a Bald Mountain Liszt : Transcendental Etude 4 "Mazeppa"
In my experience, PianoTeq has one of the best designed and stable interfaces of the software pianos. However, software pianos are inherently less reliable and more prone to crashes or not working for a number of reasons than hardware pianos. At the moment I can't seem to make my Vintage D play in the same configuration it has been for a long time. I think the problem is actually with the MIDI connection between the piano and computer (or drivers) but I'm not 100% sure. The MIDI connection, ASIO drivers, Kontakt, VST hosts (if used) and a number of other things could go sour at a bad moment.
Anyway, my point is that software pianos have many points of failure. It's not specific to any particular software piano. The whole setup is a bit fragile in my experience. Not saying it's not worth the risk, but it would be good to have a backup plan in case of a problem if you are gigging.
I just don't like the sound of Pianoteq. Don't like it at all. Just listened to some samples of their latest version and it's still that same plastic, digital keyboard sound.
I just don't like the sound of Pianoteq. Don't like it at all. Just listened to some samples of their latest version and it's still that same plastic, digital keyboard sound.
you are plastic as well as your ears (if you have ones at all), so we're not interested what do you like or not.
I just don't like the sound of Pianoteq. Don't like it at all. Just listened to some samples of their latest version and it's still that same plastic, digital keyboard sound.
you are plastic as well as your ears (if you have ones at all), so we're not interested what do you like or not.
I can't help but picture you looking exactly like this as you typed this
man don't tell you your ears are plastic as well. Kinda epidemic these days...
It's amazing to note that essentially every time someone on the forum is an raving, immature jerk, they are also an avid PianoTeq fanatic. I don't know how this comes about, but I suspect it has to do with PianoTeq's marketing strategy.
A majority of forum users appear to dislike the PianoTeq sound, but at any given time there's at least one PT troll waiting to accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being deaf. These few give those adults who like PianoTeq or at least are optimistic about its future a bad name, unfortunately.
Your predecessors in spirit thankfully did not tend to stick around the forums long. It is my hope that you do the same.
In any case put me down in the "can't like the artificial sound of PianoTeq even though I have tried hard to do so" camp. If it seems like everyone except you can't hear, you may be the one with the problem.
A majority of forum users appear to dislike the PianoTeq sound, but at any given time there's at least one PT troll waiting to accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being deaf.
you are not majority dude, get over it.
p.s. BTW this is really childish to criticize pianoteq only because you have affiliation with other company and that what's happening here.
So ... You ridicule people ... "plastic ears". You dispute the obvious ... gv's tally of opinions. You describe us as "childish". You accuse us of having some affiliation with "other company", with no substantiation.
So who is being childish?
You're free to hold (and state) any of your own opinions. But I take offense at silly accusations. Please temper your commentary.
Dude, no one here has an affiliation with a company that competes with PianoTeq. Where the heck did you come up with that? It would actually be nice if some software company employees were forum members because then we could get some answers on some things and send some feedback, but alas, we don't have any regulars who are thus affiliated.
You must be thinking of the Piano forum, which has a large number of retailers in it. That's not the way we are here, and even if it were, said retailers would sell PT as well as its competitors.
We've had many, many, many discussions about PT on the forum. It's quite clear that there is a strong minority of people who legitimately like PT, but there is a larger group who dislikes it. If you don't hear a lot of people saying they don't like the sound of PT, it's just because people are tired of you. One can only feed the trolls for so long before one gets exhausted.
This troll is very hungry, but still you shouldn't feed him.
So true. But he's such a tiresome little w*nker it's hard to resist. I think he should go and stick his head in a food blender - not so much because of his zealotry over PianoTeq (I also don't like the sound but it is improving and the concept is brilliant) - but because he signally fails to contribute anything useful at all in his posts. Some occasional visitors to the forum genuinely come for help and advice and from offnote they get neither.
JoeyIsFunny, don't listen to those childish trolls above. It's said many wanna-bee musicians has no ears whatsoever but what you gonna do? Anyway majority here apreciate it and consider pianoteq as the best software piano on the market. For me only V-piano by roland can compete with it. Have fun with it and happy playing.
I have not tested PianoTeq and couldn't tell you if I like it or not. I am very intrigued with the concept and am planning on testing it out one of these days, but as of right now, I don't have a dog in this race. However, I will say, simply based on the above conversation, I would be extremely reluctant to take the advice of offnote. Accusations, insults and the like are extraordinarily unproductive in a space where people are trying to help each other out and get real information.
Last edited by indieleap; 06/26/1209:51 AM.
I Love music and I love musicians too. My thoughts on the music industry http://www.indieleap.com
JoeyIsFunny, don't listen to those childish trolls above. It's said many wanna-bee musicians has no ears whatsoever but what you gonna do? Anyway majority here apreciate it and consider pianoteq as the best software piano on the market. For me only V-piano by roland can compete with it. Have fun with it and happy playing.
Just received Pianoteq4. Haven't tried it yet but wanted it ready for when my VPC1 arrived next week. I paid the full price for the CD disc on Amazon but it arrived in the box unsealed and without shrink wrap. I'm concerned that it's used.
Opened software is generally not returnable, and I'm afraid to use it because, if there's anything wrong with it, I might not be able to return it. Its a European company so I'm wondering if maybe they do things differently. Can anyone tell me if their boxed CD of Pianoteq 4 arrived unsealed or unwrapped.
I would think if you have a serial number and can activate the software (you can activate it on three computers) you're good to go, because you can always just download the software. If the serial number's no good or already been registered, then you need to get it straightened out with Amazon. (I purchased Pianoteq but didn't get any software, just a serial number, so that's the basis for my comment.)
Just received Pianoteq4. Haven't tried it yet but wanted it ready for when my VPC1 arrived next week. I paid the full price for the CD disc on Amazon but it arrived in the box unsealed and without shrink wrap. I'm concerned that it's used.
Opened software is generally not returnable, and I'm afraid to use it because, if there's anything wrong with it, I might not be able to return it. Its a European company so I'm wondering if maybe they do things differently. Can anyone tell me if their boxed CD of Pianoteq 4 arrived unsealed or unwrapped.
I purchased mine (both Pianoteq 4 + Bluethner add-on) online from the Modarrt /Pianoteq website. There is a serial number that will be provided and a download site/area.
I thought that due to the relatively small download size of the Pianoteq program file (20+ MB only) and given how fast DSL internet connections nowadays are, having a CD version would take relatively longer to deliver than a 10 minute download of the file (all though YMMV in terms of connection/download speeds) from Pianoteq/Modarrt website. However, I am not aware that a CD/boxed version actually exists.
Thank you everyone for your feedback. I will contact the company through their website and, if necessary, Amazon tomorrow.
Originally Posted by Cmin
Uhm sorry to inform you Starr Keys, but I have never heard of a boxed version of Pianoteq 4.... it's only for download. It sound like you were ripped.
Not necessarily. There is a number on a sticker in the box and it has occurred to me after hearing from all of you that there is no CD installation, that the CD may not be an installation disc but instructions on downloading from the PT website, since this may be a special packaging created for marketing the product on Amazon so Amazon doesn't have to be involved in the download process. If there's anyone else out there who has bought this through Amazon and can confirm this, it would be great to hear from you.
It's only very small (about 20 Mega Bytes), so it probably is included on the CD as one 'track' along with instructions, demos etc. But since all of those things are available free online, what you paid for is the sticker with the number in it. No shrink wrap necessary. So you're probably OK. As others have remarked, you can always re-download the program from pianoteq.com , anyway.
It's only very small (about 20 Mega Bytes), so it probably is included on the CD as one 'track' along with instructions, demos etc. But since all of those things are available free online, what you paid for is the sticker with the number in it. No shrink wrap necessary. So you're probably OK. As others have remarked, you can always re-download the program from pianoteq.com , anyway.
Thanks, Toddy
While I've got your and others' attention, does anyone have experience using PT with Widows 8 or 8.1? I wouldn't want to waste any of the 3 downloads or installations, and I thought I read that someone had latency issues using it with PT. (I would if possible like to use the computer that has W8 with the VPC1 as it is the smallest and has a stylus)
Well, I can't help, I'm afraid, because I'm still using Windows 7 (64bit) - and quite happy to keep it for now. One of my computers (the one I use exclusively for music) would not work with Pianoteq's latest version but their excellent online help service suggested using an older version, which worked just fine.
Question: does the €99 euro Stage4 download include the e-pianos and Bluthner pianos? It appears not from what I can make of the info given, but the demo gives the whole range of instruments on an equal footing, as it were. (ie available with the download but disabled after 20 minutes trial).
This is an interesting thread. As it turns out, I bought Pianoteq Stage 4.5 ($129 US) this weekend, so I thought I might weigh in. I never bought earlier versions of Pianoteq because the sound was not close enough to a piano for me to suspend disbelief. In fact the earlier versions sounded like a perfect acoustic model of a Yamaha CP80 from 1975 to my ear. :-) I have to say that with version 4.5, the sound is close enough to a piano that I am not distracted by it when playing it. I don't mean to disrespect the sound, because getting this close just using mathematical formulas is a tremendous achievement, and they have my respect for that.
However, the strength of this instrument is not in the listening but is in the playing. It's latency is as low as a hardware instrument, so there is no lag. It has an automatic velocity mapping/calibration program that can also be infinitely tweaked manually. In fact, it is pretty clear that Pianoteq knows that the playing of their instrument is their money. All of the parameters are focused on making it play better versus simply sounding better. It particularly excels at dynamics. In fact it's micro dynamics are actually more exaggerated than an acoustic piano. So if one's priority is to work on things like voice leading, phrasing, nuance, etc., Pianoteq will reveal these efforts like a magnifying glass.
The best thing I can say about the sound is that it does ppp, pp, p and mp best. The louder you go, the more the artificiality of the overtones intrudes. I take it for what it is. I like what it does best, and I do my best to ignore the rest. I don't regret spending $129 on it. That being said, this thing is pretty darn expensive. At this point I'm unwilling to spend another $120 on the Blüthner and U4 pianos. That would be $249 total, and that's just using the Stage version. This pricing structure must be working for them, or they wouldn't be doing it. That being said, high-quality sampling software seems to be settling in at the $99 point for a single instrument, which is a really good value IMO. Take this opinion for what it's worth. There is never going to be a consensus on these type things. When you have a budget, you make your choices and hope for the best!
PS: You also get to try it before you buy it (unlike sampled pianos), so if you hate it, no worries and no money down the drain.
Pianoteq version 4 is really very good - and a unique product, of course. The Stage version is very good value. I just think the add-on pianos/ electric pianos etc are too expensive - €25 or so would have been nice. As it is, it's too expensive for me for now...
Thanks for weighing in on Pianoteq. In light of how much I have learned and how much pleasure I've received from your YouTube videos, I value your experience highly!
This is an interesting thread. As it turns out, I bought Pianoteq Stage 4.5 ($129 US) this weekend, so I thought I might weigh in. I never bought earlier versions of Pianoteq because the sound was not close enough to a piano for me to suspend disbelief. In fact the earlier versions sounded like a perfect acoustic model of a Yamaha CP80 from 1975 to my ear. :-) I have to say that with version 4.5, the sound is close enough to a piano that I am not distracted by it when playing it. I don't mean to disrespect the sound, because getting this close just using mathematical formulas is a tremendous achievement, and they have my respect for that.
However, the strength of this instrument is not in the listening but is in the playing. It's latency is as low as a hardware instrument, so there is no lag. It has an automatic velocity mapping/calibration program that can also be infinitely tweaked manually. In fact, it is pretty clear that Pianoteq knows that the playing of their instrument is their money. All of the parameters are focused on making it play better versus simply sounding better. It particularly excels at dynamics. In fact it's micro dynamics are actually more exaggerated than an acoustic piano. So if one's priority is to work on things like voice leading, phrasing, nuance, etc., Pianoteq will reveal these efforts like a magnifying glass.
The best thing I can say about the sound is that it does ppp, pp, p and mp best. The louder you go, the more the artificiality of the overtones intrudes. I take it for what it is. I like what it does best, and I do my best to ignore the rest. I don't regret spending $129 on it. That being said, this thing is pretty darn expensive. At this point I'm unwilling to spend another $120 on the Blüthner and U4 pianos. That would be $249 total, and that's just using the Stage version. This pricing structure must be working for them, or they wouldn't be doing it. That being said, high-quality sampling software seems to be settling in at the $99 point for a single instrument, which is a really good value IMO. Take this opinion for what it's worth. There is never going to be a consensus on these type things. When you have a budget, you make your choices and hope for the best!
PS: You also get to try it before you buy it (unlike sampled pianos), so if you hate it, no worries and no money down the drain.
Totally agree. Strength of Pianoteq is excellent playability. Nothing from sampled libraries I tried (Ivory, Galaxy D...) can match the feeling of total control over sound during playing. Long natural decay, resonances, pp to ff, ... all is there. More I am testing it more I like it. Don't just listen to demos on web, you really have to play it yourself before making any decision.
I bought Pianoteq Stage 4.5 ($129 US) this weekend, so I thought I might weigh in. I never bought earlier versions of Pianoteq because the sound was not close enough to a piano for me to suspend disbelief. In fact the earlier versions sounded like a perfect acoustic model of a Yamaha CP80 from 1975 to my ear. :-) I have to say that with version 4.5, the sound is close enough to a piano that I am not distracted by it when playing it.
Are you saving there is a significant improvement in the sound between 4 and 4.5.? Anyone know if you can upgrade for free from 4 to 4.5?
I always blend Pianoteq carefully with my onboard DP sound. Best of both worlds. BTW ; I cut the attack phase of PT and keep the decay and sustain phase , gradually coming in. This is where the ROM piano's fail and where PT shines. Takes some tweaking , but it's worth it. I'd like to see PT add real HQ attack samples in their next version to finally get a fully mature product. All the nice resonance effects and dynamics are there, but he initial phase is still (too) artificial and I am afraid will stay that way with modeling.
Pianoteq sounds to me like a compressed recording does. This versus a recording that hasn't been compressed. My Ivory sounds more like an uncompressed recording.
I would like to add. I really like Pianoteq. Might even have said it earlier in this thread? I think it has a future that sampled piano's don't. It's very interesting.
Still, when I go back to my Ivory. I have to admit. It sounds better.
Ron Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
I bought Pianoteq Stage 4.5 ($129 US) this weekend, so I thought I might weigh in. I never bought earlier versions of Pianoteq because the sound was not close enough to a piano for me to suspend disbelief. In fact the earlier versions sounded like a perfect acoustic model of a Yamaha CP80 from 1975 to my ear. :-) I have to say that with version 4.5, the sound is close enough to a piano that I am not distracted by it when playing it.
Are you saving there is a significant improvement in the sound between 4 and 4.5.? Anyone know if you can upgrade for free from 4 to 4.5?
The last version I tried was v3. I wasn't interested in it at all. v4.5 is better than that. To clarify, the current version is piano similar enough for me to enjoy playing it. I don't think it can compete with the sound of sampled pianos purely from a listening perspective.
Thanks for weighing in on Pianoteq. In light of how much I have learned and how much pleasure I've received from your YouTube videos, I value your experience highly!
And it records everything you play! So, if you co a good `un, it`s already saved. I believe you can convert it to wav too; How good`s that?
The midi recorder and the infinitely adjustable velocity curve are really strong features. I wish the sampled instruments I use had these two features.
I've been very happy with Pianoteq4.5 Stage w/ Blüthner add-on.
The final straw was trying to record one of my compositions with Ivory 2 Italian Grand. The piece in question relies on very subtle dynamic changes, and the brutal velocity-switching I kept getting was driving me mental.
Since switching to Pianoteq, I honestly haven't even bothered reinstalling the Italian Grand.
I bought Pianoteq Stage 4.5 ($129 US) this weekend, so I thought I might weigh in. I never bought earlier versions of Pianoteq because the sound was not close enough to a piano for me to suspend disbelief. In fact the earlier versions sounded like a perfect acoustic model of a Yamaha CP80 from 1975 to my ear. :-) I have to say that with version 4.5, the sound is close enough to a piano that I am not distracted by it when playing it.
Are you saving there is a significant improvement in the sound between 4 and 4.5.? Anyone know if you can upgrade for free from 4 to 4.5?
Yes, the engine and all of the instruments have been updated, and the sound has changed. As far as I know, updates are free.
This is the best Pianoteq Bluthner tone I have heard yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWIhTY_UxWQ but I haven't been doing lots of auditioning. Kind of reminds me a bit of the V-Piano sound a bit.
(Ben - yours sounds too mellow for my taste, which is typical for Pianoteq though)
I bought Pianoteq Stage 4.5 ($129 US) this weekend, so I thought I might weigh in. I never bought earlier versions of Pianoteq because the sound was not close enough to a piano for me to suspend disbelief. In fact the earlier versions sounded like a perfect acoustic model of a Yamaha CP80 from 1975 to my ear. :-) I have to say that with version 4.5, the sound is close enough to a piano that I am not distracted by it when playing it.
Are you saving there is a significant improvement in the sound between 4 and 4.5.? Anyone know if you can upgrade for free from 4 to 4.5?
Yes, the engine and all of the instruments have been updated, and the sound has changed. As far as I know, updates are free.
Thanks, Jake. Got my VPC1 today, so will be emailing PT tonight about it. I'm hoping it will work better with Windows 8 computers.
I bought Pianoteq Stage 4.5 ($129 US) this weekend, so I thought I might weigh in. I never bought earlier versions of Pianoteq because the sound was not close enough to a piano for me to suspend disbelief. In fact the earlier versions sounded like a perfect acoustic model of a Yamaha CP80 from 1975 to my ear. :-) I have to say that with version 4.5, the sound is close enough to a piano that I am not distracted by it when playing it.
Are you saving there is a significant improvement in the sound between 4 and 4.5.? Anyone know if you can upgrade for free from 4 to 4.5?
Yes, the engine and all of the instruments have been updated, and the sound has changed. As far as I know, updates are free.
Thanks, Jake. Got my VPC1 today, so will be emailing PT tonight about it. I'm hoping it will work better with Windows 8 computers.
The new "Daily Practice" preset is popular. (And there are more presets now.)
I use it on Windows 8, and it works fine. Had to update my audio card drive, if I recall correctly. Are you on Windows 7?
"What software do I need to get started? PIANOTEQ works in Windows XP/Vista/7/8, MacOS X 10.5 or higher and Linux (x86) with Jack and ALSA backends. It is provided both as a 32-bit and a 64-bit version (the latter is suitable for those working with a 64-bit operating system). Besides a standalone version, PIANOTEQ is also provided as a VST (PC/Mac), Audio Units (Mac) and RTAS plugin..."
Originally Posted by rnaple
I'd like to know if others agree with me.
Pianoteq sounds to me like a compressed recording does. This versus a recording that hasn't been compressed. My Ivory sounds more like an uncompressed recording.
I would like to add. I really like Pianoteq. Might even have said it earlier in this thread? I think it has a future that sampled piano's don't. It's very interesting.
Still, when I go back to my Ivory. I have to admit. It sounds better.
@rnaple: In Pianoteq take out the limiter and lower the volume a little. And then turn up your speakers a bit. This opens up the dynamic range somewhat.
@rnaple: In Pianoteq take out the limiter and lower the volume a little. And then turn up your speakers a bit. This opens up the dynamic range somewhat.
Limiter.... Limiter? I've discovered many adjustments. But I ain't found no Limiter? Seriously...Would still like to keep giving it a try. I would like a good old fashioned upright piano sound. So far. Still Ivory has a better sound. If I could get pianoteq to my liking. I'd go for it. Cost the same as the Upright Ivory. Gotta admit....on Ragtime...my Bosendorfer Jazz Piano I'm liking a bunch.
Ron Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
The change was positive. I'll have to see when I have more time to play with it. Just off the top of my head. I'm not hearing a good decay. It seems too clean. My Ivory simply copied what the piano does. So it sounds very real. The sympathetic resonance in the decay. Can hear it moving around the piano strings as it naturally does. Yes, I have played with the U4 a bunch. Different ones there. Played with everything. I still have a positive attitude toward pianoteq. Want to play with the demo more.
At times I've gotten tired of fooling with software pianos. Just go to my Ivory and use it. Good enough. Like right now I'm pretty happy with what my Jazz Bosendorfer does on Ragtime. At times I think there is no way any software piano is going to do what a real one does....completely. I have to be happy with what I can do on a digital. I can't have an acoustic.
Ron Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
I for one usually turn off the reverb on all of the presets in Pianoteq, since I prefer a close-up sound. I particularly like the Intimate and Daily Practice without the reverb.
Well, I've played around with Pianoteq 4.5 stage over the past few weeks. I think I have a better sense of its strengths and limitations. For me, it is a completely different instrument depending on whether you are playing it versus listening to it. It's a paradox in that it sounds the least like a piano compared to the major options out there, but it plays the most like a piano. It provides a really satisfying playing connection. I have played around with trying to make it sound a bit less synthetic. Below is a link to a couple of audio examples on SoundCloud if anyone is interested. Basically I turned everything off in program – – compression, limiter, reverb. I had to set the volume at -7 before I could get a maximum volume below zero dB on the bounce. I then used some outboard processors in the same way I would with a raw track recording of an acoustic piano. This is kind of a work in progress. I think I can get a better sound, but it will take a little bit more trial and error. So far it's been interesting to play around with. Comments on the plus and minus of the sound are appreciated. I have some ideas of some other things to try when I get a little bit more time.
. . . Basically I turned everything off in program – – compression, limiter, reverb. I had to set the volume at -7 before I could get a maximum volume below zero dB on the bounce. I then used some outboard processors in the same way I would with a raw track recording of an acoustic piano. . . .
That's an interesting comment. It suggests that
(a) the underlying simulation is pretty close to generating "acoustic piano" sound., and that
(b) Pianoteq's choice of default "effects" was messing that sound up.
Rather like a beautiful woman, covered in dirt and dressed in ugly clothes.
. Charles
. Charles --------------------------- PX-350 / Roland Gaia / Pianoteq
effects are usually geared toward complexity (better sound all things being equal) or low latency. Pianoteq's seem more geared toward low latency for playability.
effects are usually geared toward complexity (better sound all things being equal) or low latency. Pianoteq's seem more geared toward low latency for playability.
Wow. Thanks for sharing your "pianos". It would be really nice to hear "What Kind of Fool am I" with Pianoteq compared to the others you already posted.
effects are usually geared toward complexity (better sound all things being equal) or low latency. Pianoteq's seem more geared toward low latency for playability.
Wow. Thanks for sharing your "pianos". It would be really nice to hear "What Kind of Fool am I" with Pianoteq compared to the others you already posted.
Cheers.
Now now. Assuming the ID is the same person you can check out 7notemode playing on YT.
effects are usually geared toward complexity (better sound all things being equal) or low latency. Pianoteq's seem more geared toward low latency for playability.
Wow. Thanks for sharing your "pianos". It would be really nice to hear "What Kind of Fool am I" with Pianoteq compared to the others you already posted.
Cheers.
Now now. Assuming the ID is the same person you can check out 7notemode playing on YT.
+1 on the What Kind of Fool am I with Pianoteq. Spannishbudha, are you implying it is already on YT?
Yes, I looked for the WKOFAI midi file but it is on another hard drive somewhere -- to be located. I plan to put it up w/Pianoteq, but wanted to work on the Pianoteq sound first.
@7notemode Thanks for posting those demos. Surprisingly great sound out of Pianoteq. Can you provide more details on how you set up Pianoteq on A Night in Tunesia (Pianoteq preset, adjustments thereto, post processing)? Also, what were your Galaxy Vintage D settings? Your demos tempt me to wipe Ivory off my SSD and just stick with Pianoteq and Galaxy Vintage D.
@7notemode Your demos tempt me to wipe Ivory off my SSD and just stick with Pianoteq and Galaxy Vintage D.
Don't do that! I still have lots of love for Ivory! On every software instrument I use, the settings for playing and the settings for rendering are completely different. In general, I turn everything off that is not essential -- EQ, Reverb, compression, limiting. I play using speakers, so there is room sound added to the direct sound naturally. Velocity mapping can make a big difference. I think Pianoteq has the most adjustable velocity mapping followed by Vintage D then Ivory. The strange thing about Pianoteq is that using two different velocity maps on the same set up makes it sound like two different instruments -- two very different sounds. It almost seems that changing the velocity mapping in Pianoteq changes the sound generating algorithm. I know that is the case with the "EQ" in Pianoteq, which is really not EQ, as it changes the actual sound generation of the instrument (as opposed to changing the frequency spectrum after the sound generation is done).
That said, in pianoteq, I start by cutting off reverb, compression, limiting, reduce volume to at least -3 dB and the I work on a velocity curve on my CP300 that starts at around a midi velocity of 7 before tone generation starts. Most of the time I set midi velocity 127 at around 118 in pianoteq. The last bit of high velocity tones sound a little bit artificial to me, so I don't use them.
Jayden: I just have the Stage and the hammer sound is too loud on the classical presets, which mimics a distant mic sound. The jazz setting mimics a closer mic set up and the hammer noise is still loud but acceptable. Maybe with the more expensive version it can be tweaked?
I just posted both a raw unprocessed Pianoteq audio track and a second "mixed and mastered" audio track on soundcloud that uses the same midi file (What Kind of Fool Am I). So now I have the following pianos recordings up using the same midi file: Ivory German D, Ivory American D, Galaxy Vintage D, Pianoteq 4.5 https://soundcloud.com/7notemode/sets/what-kind-of-fool-am-i-ivory
The raw unprocessed pianoteq file is at www.soundcloud.com/7notemode. If anyone is interested in downloading it and putting it in an audio workstation to tweak/play around the sound you can get, feel free. There is no limiting, compression or reverb on the track. The downloads are 16bit/44.1 I do all my tracks this way, which is to bounce a plain audio track and then do audio processing.
I also posted a Pianoteq 4.5 example on youtube at http://youtu.be/miUAju3sUcU That concludes my Pianoteq obsessiveness. I've done what I can w/Pianoteq for now. I still think I can tweak it. Interesting exercise though.
I think It was just the settings I was using, after messing with it Ive found much different sounds. 
(lots of fortissimo near the end, in case you're worried that it's all soft)
You can make it sound either way depending on which model you choose and how you tweak it. And to the one who said it sounds compressed, try turning off the limiter. Not sure why they even have it on by default. (Just lower the volume so you don't start clipping.)
![[Linked Image]](http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6058/alfredslevel1.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://voltara.org/pt/pt-performance.png)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/9medals.jpg)
Read what the text of my link in my post says. You gotta look at the bottom right where it says save to PC, then click the "click here" link.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.votersopinion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/brat1.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/unbranded/e/unbranded-ears-giant-6-inch.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Joplinbadgetiny.jpg)
" 
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forumpicts/MOYD13/MOYD_3.gif)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Joplinbadgesmall.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/medal_c_1.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/9353.png)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/1medal.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/5540.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/medium/6600.jpg)