Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Self-Teaching Support Thread

This is a very exciting thread. It makes me feel less depressed that I'm not the only one on this boat. I'm with you guys...

From what I see, one needs great deal of motivation, self-discipline and never-give-up attitude in order to successfully self-teach.

Anyways, people say that with a teacher you would progress much faster? Is it true?

Actually, one task good teachers constantly do is slow down their students.

I am also teaching myself. I did take lessons around 10 years ago but right now I cannot afford it. I also like the idea of doing the kind of music I like. I am not really sure exactly what direction I will go in but I like it I can choose that myself. I am doing a mixture of Alfred's, scales, classical(succeeding with the masters) and just started a dvd on ear training. I think having a self-teaching support thread will be a good idea!

No, just failure to reach your true potential.

Excellent question! I studied with a very influential and knowledgeable teacher, after a whole bunch of life ruining duds, for about 10 years. I realize she didn't so much teach the piano as how to enable the body to play music on an instrument (in fact she was well known for fixing violinists' and guitarists' playing injuries) - so I have very fixed ideas about how to go about the violin and have yet to observe any violinist I agree with. Were I to engage a teacher we'd be at hammer and tongs in no time!

It's all about tension - you can always add it, taking it away is an enormous effort (funny enough). But also it's about music. I surprised myself on guitar (self taught) a few years ago - I played a piece (Albeniz' Leyenda) that I'd learned as a teenager but it came out musically! Without knowing it I had learned not only to listen but what to listen for.

In a nutshell there's two things you must learn - how to allow your body to get on with a task and, quite a separate skill, what music is.

Agreed. The question of whether or not having a teacher is better is moot. The fact is, for whatever reason, there are some us that are either stuck having to or choosing to self-teach.

I'm also a bit frustrated with the amount of posts in this forum that inevitably ends with, "Do you have a teacher?" If I had a good teacher who I trusted, do you really think I'd be posting the question on this forum? Get off your high-horse and stop hijacking the threads and changing them all into discussions about why having a teacher is better.

And I'd like to add that *some* of us are emotionally charged to the points of being overwhelmed, stressed, and depressed about not having access to a good teacher but we're still doing the best we can with what we have - which is why we're on this forum!

You are right. This thread is overdue. If we put aside the discussion of the merits of self-learning, and just have a discussion about self-learning, there are a lot of fun discussions about the experiences.

There seems this underlying dynamic:

A: "I'm teaching myself."
B: "That's not wise."
A: "Why?"
B: "Trust me." or "It's a known fact. It's a law of physics." etc. [as an aside, it would be terrific if anyone had some numbers or figures to make this point]

Autodidacts tend to be intelligent (often highly so) and learn things differently than others. I hope this doesn't sound haughty, but... I think I have a knack for identifying the most efficient means of learning something. My personal experience is that I've been able to teach myself in less time than it takes an instructor to communicate. That's the bottom line. It's reasonable to infer this may apply to learning an instrument.

Experience matters. Had I not taken lessons I would have missed several crucial concepts that would have impeded my efficient progress.

However, sometimes I have to bite my tongue in lessons. My teacher often falls back into 'standard student' mode and wastes time with things that do not help me progress. I feel like lessons are 90% filler and 10% impact. I'm just afraid that if I miss the 10%, I'll be 'crippled' so to speak.

This is kind of how it's been for me forever, and I wouldn't be surprised is there were dozens just like me reading this. Hard to find someone with experience teaching someone who learns things quickly and has tons of discipline to drill in my own time.

This is all fine for me to say, but I'm not a virtuoso pianist who is filling concert halls. Who really gives a rat's butt about my un-credentialed opinion? No one should. I imagine if you had the right match of student and teacher that is ideal. [thinks to himself, 'perhaps I should explore this.']

I'd love to be able to talk to a self-taught master with some talent and deft sensitivity on the keyboard so I can learn from their own exploration. Good call on the thread. However, I believe orthodoxy will win the day, as most masters followed the tried and true path. Would be interesting to hear of one who did not and has wisdom to share.

Struth.

The real question is is the wish to excel a duty or a compulsion? For me it's the former.

I would go further. The more I teach (not so much piano, but other stuff) the more convinced I am that there is no such thing as teaching. There is only learning. Each of us has to work out how to learn, and no-one can make you do it.

And it doesn't bother you that you will never reach your full potential as a violinist?

Seriously, though, I don't understand how you can predict with such certainty the potential failure of other people.

Hi klutz,
Can't resist a wag.

"Saying that, I'm self learning the violin!"

No wonder you haven’t any friends ... oh, Royal Greek-iness.

This thread seemed like a good idea.

Instead, it did the opposite of what other threads do. Rather than say "Oh, you can't self-learn, get a teacher!", it's become "you can self-learn better! teachers, psh!"

Self-learners are a dime a dozen. What's the point in it for you? Why are you studying? That's what really matters. The only time a teacher becomes important is when you decide that you aren't playing musically enough, you realize that there is something wrong (ie, tension) that you'd like someone to fix, or if you want to join the ever-useful 'in' of the musical world.

I don't always agree with my teacher. And a lot of times, she says things in a way that just makes me want to burn the piano because it makes no sense even with all the "Does that make sense?" added right after. But I can see more merit in having one than self-learning - that is, for my purposes. Not necessarily for everyone else's.

Just two things scare me.
1) Playing unmusically.
2) Hurting myself.

If neither of those happen to you... you don't need a teacher. At least, not yet. One day, maybe, but enjoy yourself.

Also, go back to what this thread was originally about. How about some resources and support for those self-learning, instead of arguing which is better, which was the original reason of creating a thread just for this purpose?

GOOD LUCK TO SELF-LEARNERS!

I will be having lessons when I'm at an appropriate stage.

I suppose there has to be a first!

On the contrary, I'm meeting lots of new violin friends!

I am "self-teaching" myself as well. I agree with Shiro that it is a misnomer.

I like the idea of this thread, and will participate. I am not as active as I used to be, but I still visit from time to time...

I feel it is important for beginners to see a teacher/mentor/player at the beginning to get some of the basics (position, height, distance from the keyboard, etc). My big mistake. Then, going it "alone" is OK in my book.

I agree that a teacher can help correct mistakes quicker and perhaps better than self driven trial and error. But, I have to ask, what is it about my way that is so wrong? I don't care that I am doing something wrong that will keep me from playing advanced pieces if I don't fix it now while it's easy. I can play this piece now. I am probably never going to reach that level anyway, so let me enjoy what I can do now.

Mistakes are relative. My goal is to enjoy myself now, not to play "correctly", whatever that means.

I will follow this thread with interest...

The trouble is piano teachers have a kinda Hippocratic Oath which forbids them to allow you to hobble yourself.

I know my parents wasted a lot of money on guitar lessons with a bad teacher. I wasn't the type of kid who complained. I didn't tell them I could play better than the teacher. A teacher who listens to your pieces and doesn't teach is useless.

So although from grade 3 upwards I more or less taught myself, I found the mistakes he didn't correct tripped me up later on. Just as John Frank's signature says.
Poor technique and not correcting mistakes can limit us when we reach a certain level, and I imagine bad habits will take some time to overcome. So if we do progress further than we ever imagined we could, then yes we could lose the enjoyment , as frustration at our technique sets in.
At grade 7 I started to hate the guitar. I had to let it go for some time and just played folk instead of classical.

I think where I get nervous about self teaching, is what happens when I reach a plateau I cannot pass without a good teacher ? Will I get frustrated and will inability to progress spoil my enjoyment ?

I have heard a few people mention monthly lessons. How do teachers feel about this, I would imagine it difficult for them to keep that type of slot open ?

Where would you place experiences similar to mine? I knew I had to have a teacher to get going at the beginning...how to sit, how to place your fingers, the idea behind the notes on the staff, etc. That I'm sure you can save yourself a lot of time with a teacher. I kept the first teacher for about a year, then "tested" two other ones over the years for a few weeks.

However, now I don't think my issue is with having or not having a teacher. I know what I need to do. I have no problem knowing what a piece calls for, I know all the dynamics, etc. I can also view it played online if I want to. I do see value in a teacher being a cheerleader of some sort (an expensive one at that), but not really to teach me anything.

That's a lot of etc.

True, but I don't "think" the problem is learning deeper and deeper dynamics and variations thereof, beyond what the piece calls for. I do feel I will need some teacher's help when I get to some advanced classical pieces, but for now, I have no use for a teacher, other than for cheerleading.