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#1304480 - 11/13/09 01:27 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: Jazz+]  
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Originally Posted by Jazz+
Eventualy Miles and Coltrane both didn't want to play with Monk anymore. Miles said he couldn't play with those weird chords behind his trumpet solos. Miles got Red Garland, then Wynton Kelly, and Coltrane went on to McCoy Tyner.

I like Monk's streamlined solo piano recordings. They are rather simple and traditional except for some of his dissonance and odd fills. They are great examples of minimilism.



I heard the same thing about Monk and Miles. Some pianists perform better solo, they are not always the best fit in a trio or group. I think that is Monk's case, he was probably experiementing with reharmonizations on the bandstand.

katt

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#1304496 - 11/13/09 02:10 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: nitekatt2008z]  
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etcetra Offline
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katt,

Coltrane went through the same thing with Bill, because Bill's comping wasn't as rhythmic/swinging as someone like McCoy Tyner. And Miles complained that McCoy bang on the piano too much. I guess even the top players don't get along sometimes.

#1304506 - 11/13/09 02:35 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: etcetra]  
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Hey Etcetra. Bill seemed to play and feel the most comfortable in his trios where he had total control. He played with Stan Getz, but they had some problems and then Tony Bennett stayed on him to be his solo accompanist on the CD.

Also, Bill didn't want to be considered a side man because he shined on his own cloud. Never heard that Coltrane wouldn't work with Bill after Kind of Blue. Interesting. And even McCoy had his own trios though time. Art Tatum was a better solo pianist than in a group and if you can play like Tatum, who needs a group anyway?

That might be a good subject on the forum here. What does it take to be a successful jazz pianist/keyboardist in a group. What to play and what not to play?

katt

#1304520 - 11/13/09 03:46 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: Manachi]  
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Originally Posted by Manachi
Wow - some incredible posts - thanks for all the info/opinions/suggestions guys smile Really interesting to hear peoples opinions of Monk (except tremens, delirium who seems to just be trolling IMO).

I try to contain my excitement when I find new things in Jazz, because I'm still new to it, and what's interesting to me is probably old news to most of you guys. But I have to say that something about Monk's style & sound REALLY draws me to it - I love the quirkyness, and the sort of jagged/dissonance - its awesome. I find his technique really interesting to watch (on youtube). I'd love to be able to play in that style. I bought the "Complete Blue Note Recordings" and so far my favourite tunes are "Straight, No Chaser", "Four in One", "I Mean You", "Well you needn't", "Blue Monk" just to name a few.

I also think that his character... his edginess, and eccentric stage precense is really intriging, even by todays standards. I think he was ahead of his time!

Thanks again guys smile

PS. I'd seen that Hans Groiner youtube video before - absolutely gold - cracked me up!



Have you seen the film, "Straight, No Chaser"?

#1304596 - 11/13/09 09:37 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: landorrano]  
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katt,

Bill's playing is highly arranged in some ways, so I can see why he likes the control he has in his trio. I am noticing the same thing with Brad Mehldau.. he doesn't do nearly as much as a sidemen, and you can tell they both work a lot of things together as a trio that wouldn't work in other contexts.

#1304629 - 11/13/09 10:39 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: Manachi]  
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Originally Posted by Manachi
But I have to say that something about Monk's style & sound REALLY draws me to it - I love the quirkyness, and the sort of jagged/dissonance - its awesome. I find his technique really interesting to watch (on youtube).

I felt the same when I first heard Monk over 3 years ago. I was drawn to his sound. Drawn in such a way that I had to transcribe a bit of his intro to Round Midnight. My fingers just had to experience what he was doing.

A year or so after discovering Monk, I learned that he was born in Rocky Mount NC. Rocky Mount is a 20 minute car ride from where I now live. Maybe there is something in the atmosphere that drew me to his sound. wink

I just found a good link that talks about how his early roots in Rocky Mount may have influenced his music. Hopefully, you find it interesting -- I certainly did.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15159351

Barb


A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com
#1304704 - 11/13/09 12:10 PM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: Jazz+]  
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Originally Posted by Jazz+
Eventualy Miles and Coltrane both didn't want to play with Monk anymore. Miles said he couldn't play with those weird chords behind his trumpet solos. Miles got Red Garland, then Wynton Kelly, and Coltrane went on to McCoy Tyner.


bingo!

p.s.
was his name

#1304797 - 11/13/09 02:11 PM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: tremens, delirium]  
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Actually, Coltrane got Tommy Flanagan first then McCoy Tyner.

#1305186 - 11/14/09 12:05 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: Jazz+]  
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Coltrane stopped Monk at a recording session and asked him to explain what was going on harmonicaly. Monk said "You are the great Coltrane, just listen!" That reminds me of something delirium would say.


#1305293 - 11/14/09 07:55 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: Jazz+]  
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Originally Posted by Jazz+
Coltrane stopped Monk at a recording session and asked him to explain what was going on harmonicaly. Monk said "You are the great Coltrane, just listen!" That reminds me of something delirium would say.



Haha, I read in the Miles Davis Biography that Monk didn´t like the way Miles played "Round Midnight" even though the crowd loved it. Miles confronted Monk about about the fact the crowd loved it and also retorted in a jokingly manner that perhaps Monk was jealous. Apparently Monk didn´t get the joke because he got out of the car/taxi in the middle of nowhere! They never spoke of the incident again.

#1305737 - 11/15/09 01:47 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: ChicksfromCorea]  
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I must say I do very much enjoy playing "Ruby, My Dear" by Monk, what a great set of chord changes to improvise over! I think it's the best song he ever wrote.

#1309558 - 11/21/09 01:13 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: landorrano]  
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Originally Posted by landorrano
Have you seen the film, "Straight, No Chaser"?


I hadn't, but after your post I have since watched this film - fantastic documentary! Thanks for the recommendation - Very interesting! smile

And thanks for the link Swingin' Barb, great read!


#1309623 - 11/21/09 08:26 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: Manachi]  
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Thank you Manachi for commenting on "Straight, No Chaser". I just put in my Amazon.com order for the used VHS. It didn't take long for me to decide against the DVD that costs over $50.00 .. ouch laugh


A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com
#1309630 - 11/21/09 08:54 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: Swingin' Barb]  
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imo, I think Monk is a genius. When I first listened to "Straight, No Chaser", I was hooked. I heard it in class on a Friday, went out and bought the CD, and listened to it the whole weekend. His playing just energized me. I just wanted to understand what he was doing on that tune. I still listen to it if I need an emotional pick me up. Love the interaction between him and Charlie Rouse; those two were a musical match made in heaven. Monk is the type of player that you either love or hate. I dig him.. my husband can't tolerate him. LOL

BevP

#1309959 - 11/21/09 07:11 PM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: BSP]  
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"Thelonious Monk, a melodious thunk" ... no guesses there?

#1465803 - 06/30/10 04:00 PM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: tremens, delirium]  
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Yoop
Monk played what he wanted to play - not what he could play. Monk was trained and studied Chopin and other classical players. He could play many pieces expertly.

There are many anecdotes of Monk playing standards and classical works perfectly and astounding people who had bought into the criticism about Monk's "poor" technique and "wrong" notes.

There is a HUGE difference between ability and preference. Monk had tremendous individuality and he almost never felt any need to prove himself to anyone or play any thing or style he did not feel.

He did not imitate.

How sad for anyone who thinks there are "thousands" of better players.


tone deef
#1466184 - 07/01/10 06:32 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: YrAgentMan]  
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Originally Posted by YrAgentMan


How sad for anyone who thinks there are "thousands" of better players.



Yes. Monk is just not comparable to other players, such was his level of individuality.
I don't know if he played Chopin well but I would love to hear what he did to it.

#1466311 - 07/01/10 11:28 AM Re: Thelonious Monk [Re: beeboss]  
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I've just been watching the YouTube clip that inspired this whole thread. Amazing, I think.

The tune "Blue Monk" is about rhythmic displacement, which is what Monk also did so masterfully in "Straight No Chaser". He's giving us shells of the harmony during his initial "hits" on the piano, and while the tenor sax starts playing his solo, Monk is anticipating the changes with his hits. Then he unfolds a tremendous solo himself. Of course, if you don't "get" Monk, you're not going to "get" this clip.

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