Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
132 registered members (AndrewJCW, AlphaBravoCharlie, Ankee, atamgp, Apoll0, anotherscott, Antihero, 8ude, Abdol, 31 invisible), 1,699 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1464616
06/28/10 08:13 PM
06/28/10 08:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
C
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ChrisA  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
I'd like the AvantGrand action, as a controller . . . I REALLY think that there would be a market for such a machine.


What do you think the market size would be? How many do you think could be sold per month? What would be a reasonable retail price.

(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: ChrisA] #1464622
06/28/10 08:45 PM
06/28/10 08:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 142
South Dakota
feeble Offline
Full Member
feeble  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 142
South Dakota
Originally Posted by ChrisA
What do you think the market size would be? How many do you think could be sold per month? What would be a reasonable retail price.


1. At least three

2. At least three

3. $1500 to $2000 USD



Be the change you want to see in the world - Gandhi

Studiologic SL-990xp | Ivory II Grands | Pianoteq | Alicia's Keys
Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: feeble] #1464628
06/28/10 09:02 PM
06/28/10 09:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,899
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,899
San Jose, CA
"1500 to $2000 USD"

You've paid for a set of hammers there...


Clef

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: Jeff Clef] #1464650
06/28/10 09:57 PM
06/28/10 09:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 142
South Dakota
feeble Offline
Full Member
feeble  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 142
South Dakota
So maybe I'll have to save a little longer.



Be the change you want to see in the world - Gandhi

Studiologic SL-990xp | Ivory II Grands | Pianoteq | Alicia's Keys
Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: sullivang] #1464783
06/29/10 02:14 AM
06/29/10 02:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Czech Republic
pesk Offline
Full Member
pesk  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Czech Republic
Originally Posted by sullivang
Petrof have a minimalistic grand piano MIDI "controller":
http://www.petrof.com/midi-grand-piano.html

I emailed them about availability here in Australia but never received a response.

Greg.


Try to contact australia dealer:

http://www.petrof.com/australia-petrof_australia.html?lang=2

I've checked their site again and they've added 3 new cabinets so it looks like that this project is still alive.

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: sullivang] #1464813
06/29/10 03:44 AM
06/29/10 03:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
Germany
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member
hpeterh  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
Germany
Originally Posted by sullivang
Petrof have a minimalistic grand piano MIDI "controller":
http://www.petrof.com/midi-grand-piano.html


It doesnt seem to me that they did the rigth thing.
If they sense the keys and not the hammers, then the "touch" and "feel" might be authentic, but not the dynamic response.
It would then be not more "realistic" than a Fatar or Casio action in its response.

And there are no felts required and there are no hammers required that are selected for their resonance. Thats nonsense for a pure MIDI controller. This all makes this unnecessary expensive.

It it would be required to sense the key position in order to emulate the damper and the repetition mechanism. I bet they did not do this, because they dont write anything about it.

I must say, I am really happy with the Kawai AWA Grand pro action (that I readjusted). Dont have the experience that I could say, this feels like a real Kawai Rx, but I can say for sure, when I play Galaxy piano then I really have the impression there are real hammers that hit real strings.

The only thing missing for perfection would be a third sensor for the damper and true continuous pedal. (Ok I already have a plan how to do the latter)

Peter


1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: hpeterh] #1464833
06/29/10 04:56 AM
06/29/10 04:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 346
C
curt88 Offline
Full Member
curt88  Offline
Full Member
C

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 346
As a solo pianist, I also would not require any knobs or sliders. Just power up the Ivory (or Garritan) library and start playing. Everything can be tweaked in the software.

But back to the original post: I don't know that pros use a board strictly as a controller. They always use at least SOME of the internal sounds. Jordan Rudess (who is a pioneer of WOW regarding keyboard technology) used to use a single Kurzweil K2600 as a "controller" that fed into several rack devices and he would jump around between devices in real-time using a footswitch as a program controller.

Other than that, I've seen the Kawai MP8(II) used a lot as a controller running software libraries.

It just seems a little wasteful to me. I understand that we "all we want is a key action with a USB connection" people are a special niche audience, but we also know exactly what we want and all of that fluff is just going to waste on us. I currently use an RD700GX this way. The volume slider is on 0. I use NOTHING internal. I bought it because it felt the best to me when playing piano. Would I have paid $2000(ish) for this same action in a sleek, plain, black cabinet with no surface controls to speak of?

ABSOLUTELY.

Curt

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: ChrisA] #1464858
06/29/10 06:13 AM
06/29/10 06:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Southern California
P
Peakly Offline
Full Member
Peakly  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Southern California
Originally Posted by ChrisA
What MIDI controller? None. I think people are using DPs.


I think that's largely the case too. It's the route I went - partly because they just seem to be better keyboards.

Mychal

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: sullivang] #1464957
06/29/10 10:34 AM
06/29/10 10:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by sullivang
Petrof have a minimalistic grand piano MIDI "controller"

Wow, and built-in to a flight case no less! Looks nice for the real keys/hammers crowd.

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: dewster] #1464968
06/29/10 10:49 AM
06/29/10 10:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,323
Canada
M
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Melodialworks Music  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,323
Canada
Avantgrand, Yamaha Silent use optical sensors on both the keys and the hammers. I wonder what approach Petrof is using?

There is a recording studio not too far from me that has a Yamaha Silent piano for the MIDI keyboardists to use for their sampled sounds, keyboard sounds etc. Apparently many artists prefer the actual piano action over a DP action.

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1465491
06/30/10 05:44 AM
06/30/10 05:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
Germany
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member
hpeterh  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
Germany
There is a guy at synthogy (look there) he made a rachmaninov concerto and there is a interview at synthogy. He said he used his old and "beloved" Yamaha masterkeyboard for this, I dont know the type, maybe kx8.

Hugh sung who made a lot of demos for pianotek seems to prefer the Roland RD700SX.

Others that I have read about or seen use old Kurzweil controllers that probably have a Fatar action inside.

I think if somebody already is a pro-level pianist and has the ability to play on very different acoustics, he will not be too picky about the keyboard as long as it is reliable and compatible, as long as it has reasonable velocity characteristic and response and does the job.

For non classical playing they also use nonweigthed or halfweighted keyboards. Of course on stage the stars will always use a real black polished grand piano, because anything else doesnt have this show effect ;-)

If they are nonclassical stars (jazz or pop) then they are also under advertisement contract and preferrably use what they get from their sponsor in public performances... ;-)

I think they use everything that fits to the job.
Now if classical style is the goal then for example the old AWA grand pro from Kawai and a lot of older Yamahas and other brands would be the wrong choice. Say you have to play a repetition or an ornament fast but very soft.
It is simply impossible to do this, when the key must be almost totally
released. That has nothing to do with skills. It is impossible for physical and mechanical reasons, because it is impossible to move over a long keytravel distance fast and at the same time maintaining a slow attack velocity... Most older keyboards have this problem.

And if a real grand action is combined with a poorly constructed piano bar this would be impossible also....

Last edited by hpeterh; 06/30/10 06:26 AM.

1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: hpeterh] #1465563
06/30/10 09:39 AM
06/30/10 09:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,899
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,899
San Jose, CA
"...Of course on stage the stars will always use a real black polished grand piano, because anything else doesnt have this show effect ;-)..."

Liberace. Elton.

The link to Liberace's museum of pianos is astonishing jaw-dropping.

Last edited by Jeff Clef; 06/30/10 01:30 PM.

Clef

Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: Jeff Clef] #1465629
06/30/10 11:23 AM
06/30/10 11:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 102
USA
M
Mr Romance Offline
Full Member
Mr Romance  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 102
USA
Where did you get your stand for your MP8II?

I am in the market for one.


Kawai MP8II, Logic Studio 9, Alicia's Keys, AKG 240.
Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: hpeterh] #1465643
06/30/10 11:37 AM
06/30/10 11:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
C
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ChrisA  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted by hpeterh
...
For non classical playing they also use nonweigthed or halfweighted keyboards. Of course on stage the stars will always use a real black polished grand piano, because anything else doesnt have this show effect ;-)


There are companies that sell stage-prop piano shells. These are hollow, fake piano cases that have a place where you can put a digital keyboard inside. The idea is that you get the look of a "real piano" but you get to play the DP. I don't know the number of performers who use these but it's enough to keep a small cottage industry in business. So you are right about the show effect. There is no other possible purpose to something like that.

The other thing, when you ask what do "most" performers use. Well, "most" pros are poor and they use what they can afford. It's only the very few stars and us amateurs (with day jobs) who can have what we want.

Last edited by ChrisA; 06/30/10 11:38 AM.
Re: What Controller are Pros using these days? [Re: ChrisA] #1465718
06/30/10 01:32 PM
06/30/10 01:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,899
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,899
San Jose, CA
"Where did you get your stand for your MP8II?"

The Kawai dealer who sold me the DP. I've seen similar four-legged models at GC, Sweetwater. Around 80 bucks.


Clef

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Maybe I’m not too old but I STINK!
by Mils. 10/22/19 02:25 PM
Good budget microphone for piano recording
by Ankee. 10/22/19 02:21 PM
Yamaha's are considered bright..... why?
by U3piano. 10/22/19 12:01 PM
Notation question
by pianoloverus. 10/22/19 11:52 AM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,668
Posts2,882,043
Members94,725
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1