Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Welcome PianoTV members!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
115 registered members (anotherscott, akc42, ADIRL, aroyja, Almaviva, 29 invisible), 1,264 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1463284 - 06/26/10 04:12 AM Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
JasonCA Offline
Junior Member
JasonCA  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
California
Hi Everyone,

I can't seem to find enough clarity on the important of hand positions or which hand positions I should primarily focus on?

Just as I have mastered the C position, there suddenly is a new G position. And, after trying to do some research, it seems like there are other hand positions such as as A, D, and F. However, I haven't been able to confirm if there really are other hand positions such as A, D, and F. And if there are other hand positions, it seems like a forever task to try to remember fingering for them.

So a few important questions:

1) How many hand positions are there? I know there is C and G, but is there any more hand positions?

2) Among the hand positions, which ones are really important to focus on? It seems like at the very least I should master C and G hand positions?

3) If there are other hand positions such as A, D, F, then really it seems quite difficult to really master your fingering on the keyboard? I am not sure how to cope with this? For instance and while focused on right hand only, if there is a B position, then I would have to remember that finger 1 (thumb) that is usually on C is now resting on D. And then my right hand would play D, E, F, G, A. But that just screws up my mind as far as what fingers play which notes.

4) Would mastering C and G position be good enough to play a variety of music? I suppose I feel that as soon as I master C and G, I will just have tons of other hand positions I would have to master as well.

Anyone's thoughts on this would be great!

Thanks!

Jason


(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1463292 - 06/26/10 05:18 AM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: JasonCA]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 374
Basia C. Offline
Full Member
Basia C.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 374
Sweden
Well, the bad news are that hand positions are not really relevant to piano playing. shocked Ok, maybe not completely true. Hand positions is something some method book writers have made up in order to help the students get started. It makes it easier in the beginning to know where to put the hands and to know which note should play which finger. As you progress, your hands will be moving much more freely over the keyboard, and it will no longer make sense to think about it in the terms of hand positions. You will simply decide where to put the hand by looking at the notes, and by figuring out what fingering might be good.

Don't worry, getting beyond hand positions is likely one of the next steps in your learning, and will give you a different freedom on the keyboard.


Nothing is accomplished without enthusiasm. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Linked Image]

#1463293 - 06/26/10 05:27 AM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: Basia C.]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 374
Basia C. Offline
Full Member
Basia C.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 374
Sweden
BTW, if I were to answer the question about how many hand positions there are, I would say there are twelve. One for each key in music. Learning scales will help you in the future to know easier how to finger the notes.


Nothing is accomplished without enthusiasm. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Linked Image]

#1463306 - 06/26/10 06:17 AM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: JasonCA]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,383
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,383
Canada
"Hand positions" is a way to start you off. The truth is that you put your hand in such a way that your fingers can comfortably fit over the keys you will be playing. Beginner music is written in such a way that all the notes of the piece will happen to span the notes C,D,E,F,G for example. You have 5 fingers that fit over 5 notes. Later on you will have pieces that span a greater distance and you learn to move your hand into new positions, and also to spread your hand out or shrink it back together to reach more notes.

If you have begun associating a finger with a note, such as C=1, D=2, E=3 for the RH .... don't! The fingering is to show you where to play for now, because they can't reach out of the book to put your hand down for you (that would be creepy whistle) so they give you an idea through numbers. But in your mind always identify the keys by the notes they are and the tone they produce. You could play the note C with any finger you want and it would still sound like C.

Imagine that you want to play the notes from D to A. find them on the piano and see where your hand would fit to best cover those notes and put it there. Then imagine another set of 5 notes and do the same. Essentially that is all that hand position is. It's a lot simpler than we might believe.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1463323 - 06/26/10 07:07 AM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: keystring]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,459
mom3gram Offline
1000 Post Club Member
mom3gram  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,459
New Jersey
You sound like a true beginner, Jason. :-) And I'm not all that far advanced from that point myself. I can remember struggling with "G position" and having it make no sense to me that I now had to learn all the fingering over again. I was doing so well with "C". LOL I'm here to tell you that slowly, but surely, you will overcome the hand position thing.

My suggestion to you is to drill note recognition and key recognition so that you know where each note is automatically. And to look at your piece and determine the fingering for the first note in each hand to see where to start instead of determining which "position" you are playing in.

I had the hardest time, when first moving out of a 5 finger position, to remember where my hand was now in relation to the other notes. It sunk in gradually. Just take it slow and it will all make sense.

If you have a teacher, ask him/her to help you with this concept. If you are self teaching (I am) just take it slow and don't move on until you are comfortable. Find as many beginner pieces as you can to practice with and have fun!


mom3gram

ALFRED'S ADULT BOOK 1 GRADUATE
Faber Adult PA Bk. 1 Graduate
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#1463363 - 06/26/10 09:00 AM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: mom3gram]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,417
packa Offline
1000 Post Club Member
packa  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,417
Dallas, TX
I agree with the earlier responses. There are no fixed hand positions in piano. The concept is one that some method books use to introduce the new student to the keyboard and to help them finger their first few pieces. Other method books and many teachers don't bother with such a concept even in the beginning. The downside of hand positions, as pointed out earlier, is the tendency to associate notes with certain finger numbers in certain positions. That doesn't really work for real playing.

Hand position really relates to fingering, and fingering always has to be adapted to your hand size and shape and with consideration to where you are in the notes and where you need to be next. Fingering gets easier with time, but there is always something new to learn. Even after years of practice, my teacher sometimes suggests a new fingering that I hadn't thought to try. I was working on a Liszt piece last night that includes a couple of fingering suggestions from Liszt himself, and they were a revelation, something I don't think I would have ever come up with on my own.


Paul Buchanan
Estonia L168 #1718
#1463579 - 06/26/10 05:50 PM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: Basia C.]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Andy Platt  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Basia C.
BTW, if I were to answer the question about how many hand positions there are, I would say there are twelve. One for each key in music. Learning scales will help you in the future to know easier how to finger the notes.


I was trying to work out which of the 12 this was:

[Linked Image]

wink


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#1463622 - 06/26/10 08:38 PM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: Andy Platt]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,101
ll Offline
1000 Post Club Member
ll  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,101
There are more than 12. There's quite a large possibility of hand positions, considering all the combinations.

But don't let that bother you. They aren't that important.

Can I ask what method you are using to learn and if you have a teacher?


II. As in, second best.
Only lowercase. So not even that.
I teach piano and violin.
BM, Violin & Percussion Performance 2009, Piano Pedagogy 2011.
#1463648 - 06/26/10 10:31 PM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: ll]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,921
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
rocket88  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,921
The hand positions are like being in the kitchen, and saying "Now I am at the stove position, and next will move over to the sink position, then I probably will go to the refrigerator position".

No...you are in the kitchen, moving about.

Likewise, at the piano, there are 88 keys, 10 fingers, and you move your hands around; thus there are a virtual infinite number of hand positions, if one takes in account both the left hand and the right hand, and all the possibilities, including crossing the hands over.

Thus, "hand positions" are really a fiction, a concept invented to help beginners at the very beginning, (which they perhaps do, but one must abandon the thought of them rather quickly), but beyond the beginning of studies they do not really have value, and can become a mental obstacle to progressing, as perhaps evidenced by the OP's questions.


Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.
#1463651 - 06/26/10 10:44 PM Re: Important Hand Positions C & G and Other's A, D, F [Re: Andy Platt]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,171
BenPiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
BenPiano  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,171
US
Originally Posted by Andy Platt
Originally Posted by Basia C.
BTW, if I were to answer the question about how many hand positions there are, I would say there are twelve. One for each key in music. Learning scales will help you in the future to know easier how to finger the notes.


I was trying to work out which of the 12 this was:

[Linked Image]

wink


This is the "nose position".

That is, in order for me to play this correctly I would need to use my nose on that A# above middle C. grin


Learning to play since June 2009.
My piano diary on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/user/afpaSTU1096
[Linked Image] <- 10+ ABF recitals

Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
CLEARANCE SPECIALS!
Save Big In our online store now

In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
SummerKeys
Maine Coast Music Vacation for Adults
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Don't understand the timing of this Beethoven
by akc42. 01/18/18 06:52 PM
Best upright piano possible
by Heinrichengels. 01/18/18 06:05 PM
Don't forget the one month until recital thread!
by Monica K.. 01/18/18 05:02 PM
When your voice isn't high enough
by phantomFive. 01/18/18 04:57 PM
Website to list music lessons
by fliu1989. 01/18/18 04:24 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,857
Posts2,688,319
Members89,476
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0