Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum "Failure to thrive" advanced students

Huh? Book 2 is a little better than Book 1, but my students really dislike Birds. Heck, even I dislike Birds.

Insects are better.

But of course your students dislike Birds. And would it surprise you that mine love it?

But really, there's very little music for piano where students actually get to sit on the keyboard.

i receive the failing to thrive students from my 'real piano teacher friend'.. the kids want to quit. the parents want them to take lessons. they are sick sick of classical and for the most part want to learn 'new things'.

I have all of them learn arpeggios and inversions in every key as well as play/learn I, IV, V, chords. They come to like this exercise... although they start out kicking and screaming with the horror of actually exercising.

i have taught Katchaturian's Tocatta.. easy to show, difficult to read.

Richard Claderman (believe it or not girls adore this book of music).. it's a blue book).

Great Movie Themes (everyone love Titanic)

I choose songs in particular keys to match the arpeggios we study. The chord names are included (fake music if you will). I have them play melody with chordal accompaniment to supplement.. i teach accompanying patterns.

It's really fun for me, and them to teach this way and for the most part they really thrive.. I am trying to get them to the point where they will want to practice and learn on their own as they go thru life.

John or anyone else who has the scores of "Birds":
I have tried several online retailers and am told this music is out of print.
Any ideas on where it can be purchased? Performances are on youtube and one of my students is interested.

He is now exclusively published by Manduca.

http://www.manducamusic.com/BernsteinPiano1.htm

I, too, LOVE Birds. Don't care for volume 2, though.

As we're discussing music which can serve as "student savers and motivators" here is another set which I have found very useful. Summer Vacation by Katherine Rollin. The harmonies are tradition, for the most part, I, IV, V, etc., with a few VI chords thrown in for modernization, but not radically modern like Birds.

The titles are intriguing, and I've found that young ladies, in particular, who are quite concerned with issues of popularity, acceptance, etc., tend to really like this set. Some of the titles are: School's Out, Bicycling, Sleepover, Sailing, Running.

In fact, many of the pieces can be used as direct substitutes for "classical" teaching pieces. The Bicycling piece can be substituted for Clementi Op 36, n.1, 3rd movement.

FWIW, that Sailing number seems to have a real hook. A number of parents have commented to me how much they like it and how happy they are that their student likes it and plays it so much. The piece itself is nothing but I, IV, V arpeggios, but you know, that's what people hear and like.

I know how they feel. Personal experience, i felt really bored nothing seemed interesting. I changed teacher and new interesting different styled pieces. Not saying this is the case

I've been sitting on this thought for a while. Please feel free to disregard it if it's off base.


I'm struck both by the fact that you are doing this, and that you have always done so. There comes a time as we advance that we realize that there is another side to music besides playing harder pieces and making them sound good. Music becomes interesting in a new way, and I don't think that we can really advance past a certain point if we don't clue in on that. There is everything that is behind music, what we use to approach it, and then actually approaching it. I wonder if these students have connected to this.

If you are separating the voices and shaping the phrases, then they aren't. One can say that if a teacher does this, then the exam results will be better, because who knows better than you with your expertise? But to me as a student it's still riding the surface. Even if I got fantastic grades and everyone praised me to the hilt I'd feel I was missing something.

One of the teachers wrote of getting disaffected advanced transfers and teaching them chords, and I think improvising. Is their interest rekindled because it is more fun, or because they are getting into understanding and shaping music themselves?

Teachers are suggesting repertoire. What if it's not the pieces, but what can be done with music - a shift in focus?

Well, one reason for suggesting alternate repertoire is to help the student discover music which reaches into them and with which they can express themselves. If you don't find Bach's inventions interesting, then try as you might, you'll probably not be able to do much with it musically.

I understand, John, but there is more to music than repertoire. There is the substance of music. When you start understanding what we call "theory" but in an alive way, and you start delving into music then any music becomes alive. The act of working through music, discovering things about it, forming your own "informed" interpretation, is exciting especially if brand new. If that world has not opened up, and it does, that can be a powerful motivator.

Here's a piece that saved one student:

Gwyneth Walker, "Rhythms from the North Country"

http://www.gwynethwalker.com/rhythmsf.html

Enjoy!

Perhaps, perhaps not. When I was young, I had a very strong distaste for the jazz idiom. You could give me all the theory in the world, and it wouldn't have mattered. I would have quit lessons if my teacher had insisted on jazz.

As a "student" I seemed to have the opposite experience. Being mostly self taught with very little formal training, I reached a certain level on my own and then plateued for several years but would always keep playing for myself at home. Then after many years of no lessons i finally found an appropriate but very demanding teacher who was able to show me the light and I made several breakthrus in only a couple years.

So non-taught student hits plateau and solves it by getting teacher.

So student taking lessons hits plateau should quit teacher?

Same logic but in reverse, but I don't know that that sounds like a good idea. How about some of these ideas instead-

A students interest and ambition needs to come from within somehow. They need to want to improve. You can't make them but you can find ways to nurture and coax them along a little. Ask yourself what would make a student want to get better.

1. Some have already suggest a showy or flashy piece they can show off to friends.

2. Finding opportunities to do more performing would be another thing, whether it be solo performances, like for church. Or joining a band. Or just getting together informally with a couple other people to jam. Playing with just one other person can be lots of fun. Or how about Open Mics nights. Or any other "Goals" to work towards.

3. Try listening to a lot of new and different music. This motivates me a lot. When I hear a really cool piece then I want to be able to play it, even if it's difficult. Try new styles if you haven't already like in the Jazz family- Blues, Boogie etc. Upbeat stuff can be a great alternative to classical and new age pieces.

4. I hate to say it but sometimes a change of teacher can be refreshing and good change of pace. Every teacher has strengths and weaknesses and I always think it's a good idea to learn from as many different people as possible. I am planning on doing this myself and rotate thru a few I know and may even go back to the same one a couple times.

But #3 is what I suggest first.

Thanks! This is wonderful.

While I'm grateful for the repertoire suggestions, upon further reflection, that's not really the problem. They both like almost everything I choose. (I've asked them to choose, btw; they have occasionally.) They simply don't place a value on practicing enough or can't make the changes to their lifestyles that piano would necessitate. I have given them performance opportunities, but they don't practice enough for a solid performance. It always sounds like a good read-through.

I suspect they don't really know how long they'd have to practice a piece to really show it. I can't handle giving more than about twelve lessons on a given piece. I usually tell them to keep practicing it after that and show it later if desired. However, by then, we're usually onto the next thing. At their slow practice rate, more than twelve weeks on the same piece wouldn't really make for interesting lessons.

At times, I envision what it would be like to teach only advanced students. I wonder how university professors do it. You'd have to see about two hours per day of practicing from the student to make an interesting lesson, I would think.

You can lead a horse to water...

In fact, I require a minimum of 2 hours a day from my university students, but few of them actually do it and it shows. Very frustrating. I don't have this problem at all with my high school students.

Hey, I don't mean to sound promotional or anything, but it sounds like my new idea would work out really well in your situation. I'm creating online 6 week courses for building up musical fundamentals. These should enhance student's playing as well as free up your time to work on what you want to! You can read more about it in this thread: https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...l%20Supplemental%20Cour.html#Post1465074

Breathe Piano, hey I don't mean to sound mean, but yeah, I reckon you do sound promotional or something, because your new idea doesn't seem to address the concern of this thread at all. But I'm only guessing because access has been denied to the link you put up.....!!!!

Elissa,

the person is saying that her advanced students are spending too much time working on fundamentals and not enough time music making. That is the whole point of this. You can check it out at CreatingMusicians.com. Please understand that this is completely free for you teachers as well.