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Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
Horowitzian #1463155 06/25/10 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Horowitzian

That wasn't the point. laugh

I must have missed it, then.


Jason
Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
argerichfan #1463157 06/25/10 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by Horowitzian

That wasn't the point. laugh

I must have missed it, then.


Citations! I wasn't testing your eyesight. [Linked Image]


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
Horowitzian #1463189 06/25/10 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by carey

Its been said that "Music is the language of the soul."

Thus, the type of music one "chooses" to listen to and/or play reveals a lot about an individual.

Something to think about......


I agree with that sentiment. Quite true.

And what exactly does Hitler's love of Beethoven and Wagner reveal about his soul.

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
landorrano #1463190 06/26/10 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Is it just me, or is it just plain inappropriate to be singing about shooting people, girls' behinds or certain sexual activities?


I do believe that these are 3 of the most common subjects of all art, since the beginning of time.


Right. So the Liszt sonata is about how Memplistopheles pulls a gun on Faust, while they discuss Helen's butt, and Gretchen gives them a _______, use your imagination.

Come on people. Explicit is explicit. At least be creative, like Mozart, and sing about sex in a hidden, delicate way..



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
daro #1463192 06/26/10 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by daro
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by carey

Its been said that "Music is the language of the soul."

Thus, the type of music one "chooses" to listen to and/or play reveals a lot about an individual.

Something to think about......


I agree with that sentiment. Quite true.

And what exactly does Hitler's love of Beethoven and Wagner reveal about his soul.


Can't speak for Ludwig, but Wagner was a proto-Nazi in his worldview. Perhaps one of the reasons I have a distaste for his music despite he undoubted excellence as a composer.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
chopinizmyhomeboy #1463194 06/26/10 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by chopinizmyhomeboy
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Is it just me, or is it just plain inappropriate to be singing about shooting people, girls' behinds or certain sexual activities? Who the heck wants to listen to that? I hear enough swearing in my own practice room, and frankly I think whatever happens in the bedroom (or wherever..) shouldn't be publicized for millions to know. The only rapper I have/had respect for was 2Pac.


Your respect for Tupac contradicts your reasoning for disliking rap mentioned before. Many of Tupac's rap "songs" do indeed contain the themes you mentioned before. Is there something in particular regarding Tupac that you have respect for?


Well I as 13 when I used to listen to him and I didn't speak English much - but I remember his videos weren't disgusting and there were a few songs, which took me forever to translate and the were pretty good. Something like,

"Though I walk through the valley of heck the shadow follows me
Wisdom hard to swallow tomorrow expect apologies
You probably panic, stranded in search of a better planet
Realism hard to understand, we stand slanted
and still stranded, merciless thieves stole the best of me
I pray to black Jesus to please take the rest of me
And still, the best of us build, and reach monetary gains
Some of us kill, but still, most of us can change
if we search deeper, god bless the hustler, curse the first sleeper"

Maybe I'm wrong and he was another one of those idiots. But at least there were 2 or 3 great songs.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
Horowitzian #1463201 06/26/10 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Can't speak for Ludwig, but Wagner was a proto-Nazi in his worldview. Perhaps one of the reasons I have a distaste for his music despite he undoubted excellence as a composer.

Does loving Wagner's music make one some kind of crypto-Nazi? I think that would come as news to your namesake's father-in-law, not to mention a heck of a lot of Jews.

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
daro #1463205 06/26/10 12:24 AM
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Nope! It's my personal feelings on the matter. smile Who says anyone has to comply with them, or that they are a Nazi if they disagree?


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
daro #1463208 06/26/10 12:25 AM
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Perhaps Hitler just wanted to be cool and was succumbing to peer pressure.

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
izaldu #1463218 06/26/10 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by izaldu
Mattardo, i think it makes sense to be against "some rappers" for social reasons. Obviously the message is just not good . But not all rappers are like this.

This is one of the points that needs to be cleared. Gangsta rap is just a fraction of Hip hop.


Yes, you have a point there - I agree.
Do you really think Gangsta Rap is just a fraction of Hip Hop? If so, that's unfortunate - becase Rap is generally perceived, by the public, as being basically Gangsta Rap with the occasional non-gangsta rapper. It might be a case of a very vocal minority painting the rest in a bad light?

Do you have any references for rap style percentages?

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
Horowitzian #1463221 06/26/10 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by daro
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by carey

Its been said that "Music is the language of the soul."

Thus, the type of music one "chooses" to listen to and/or play reveals a lot about an individual.

Something to think about......


I agree with that sentiment. Quite true.

And what exactly does Hitler's love of Beethoven and Wagner reveal about his soul.


Can't speak for Ludwig, but Wagner was a proto-Nazi in his worldview. Perhaps one of the reasons I have a distaste for his music despite he undoubted excellence as a composer.


Yes, it certainly makes it difficult for some people to enjoy his music.
On the other side of the coin, the music of Mahler, Mendelssohn, and many others suffered from the Nazi's biases, not to mention the accusations by some of the Wagnerians that painted Brahms as Jewish.

So the same sort of thinking can be used by both sides. I admit, I'm not totally free of personal biases when dealing with great thinkers and artists of the past - it's difficult to keep entirely aloof from such issues.

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
daro #1463227 06/26/10 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by daro
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by carey

Its been said that "Music is the language of the soul."

Thus, the type of music one "chooses" to listen to and/or play reveals a lot about an individual.

Something to think about......


I agree with that sentiment. Quite true.

And what exactly does Hitler's love of Beethoven and Wagner reveal about his soul.


Very little - other than Hitler favored music that advanced his political views. But I'm sure you already knew that. Of course, the man was insane - which may explain why he also liked Bruckner.

(Just kidding)






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Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
Pogorelich. #1463244 06/26/10 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Originally Posted by chopinizmyhomeboy
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Is it just me, or is it just plain inappropriate to be singing about shooting people, girls' behinds or certain sexual activities? Who the heck wants to listen to that? I hear enough swearing in my own practice room, and frankly I think whatever happens in the bedroom (or wherever..) shouldn't be publicized for millions to know. The only rapper I have/had respect for was 2Pac.


Your respect for Tupac contradicts your reasoning for disliking rap mentioned before. Many of Tupac's rap "songs" do indeed contain the themes you mentioned before. Is there something in particular regarding Tupac that you have respect for?


Well I as 13 when I used to listen to him and I didn't speak English much - but I remember his videos weren't disgusting and there were a few songs, which took me forever to translate and the were pretty good. Something like,

"Though I walk through the valley of heck the shadow follows me
Wisdom hard to swallow tomorrow expect apologies
You probably panic, stranded in search of a better planet
Realism hard to understand, we stand slanted
and still stranded, merciless thieves stole the best of me
I pray to black Jesus to please take the rest of me
And still, the best of us build, and reach monetary gains
Some of us kill, but still, most of us can change
if we search deeper, god bless the hustler, curse the first sleeper"

Maybe I'm wrong and he was another one of those idiots. But at least there were 2 or 3 great songs.


That is good to know. You know there are many rappers like Tupac who actually do/did have something meaningful to offer; one just has to swim in the sea of music to find them. You may find many ugly fishes, however, once in a while, you find a magnificent ___insert name of favorite fish___ as well grin.

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
Pogorelich. #1463273 06/26/10 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
At least be creative, like Mozart, and sing about sex in a hidden, delicate way.


I can see your cheeks blushing clear across the World Wide Web !

Have you read Homer ? Have you never seen the priceless Greek urns, depicting what we would call orgies ?

As for girls' behinds, ever read Les Liasons Dangereuses ? The marvelous letter that the Marquis de Whats-his-name writes to Madame de Whats-her-name, professing his inexhaustable love for her, using a prostitute's butt as writing table !

These are just a couple of references. The list would be infinte, stemming from every culture.

Don't interpret me to mean that Eminem or 50-cent are our modern-day Homer. Simply that these themes in rap music do not put it outside of the world of art, to the contrary they are perfectly coherent with great artistic achievement.

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
Pogorelich. #1463295 06/26/10 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Is it just me, or is it just plain inappropriate to be singing about shooting people, girls' behinds or certain sexual activities? Who the heck wants to listen to that? I hear enough swearing in my own practice room, and frankly I think whatever happens in the bedroom (or wherever..) shouldn't be publicized for millions to know. The only rapper I have/had respect for was 2Pac.
Are you objecting to this because you find it offensive, or is it because you consider it dangerous to society in some way?

Last edited by FunkyLlama; 06/26/10 06:35 AM.
Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
babama #1463299 06/26/10 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by babama
Mindlessly bashing and generalizing an entire genre of music one knows little about also reveals a lot about an individual.
I'm not into it myself and do not like most rap/hip hop that I've heard, but this thread made clear to me that discussing anything outside classical music is pointless on this forum because you will simply run into a wall of people who will keep saying "no it all sucks" without providing any arguments.
The burden of proof is on the supporters to explain to us why rap is so good. I think many of us have explained that it is simplistic, repetitive and lacks any kind of development. Tellingly, there's been no counterargument to that by the supporters.

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
Pogorelich. #1463320 06/26/10 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
At least be creative, like Mozart, and sing about sex in a hidden, delicate way..


Mozart -

"Lick me in the arse" and his sequel: "Lick my arse nice and clean" grin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leck_mich_im_Arsch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leck_mir_den_Arsch_fein_recht_sch%C3%B6n_sauber


Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
FunkyLlama #1463324 06/26/10 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by FunkyLlama
The burden of proof is on the supporters to explain to us why rap is so good. I think many of us have explained that it is simplistic, repetitive and lacks any kind of development. Tellingly, there's been no counterargument to that by the supporters.


This is unreal.

Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
landorrano #1463342 06/26/10 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
At least be creative, like Mozart, and sing about sex in a hidden, delicate way.


I can see your cheeks blushing clear across the World Wide Web !

Have you read Homer ? Have you never seen the priceless Greek urns, depicting what we would call orgies ?

As for girls' behinds, ever read Les Liasons Dangereuses ? The marvelous letter that the Marquis de Whats-his-name writes to Madame de Whats-her-name, professing his inexhaustable love for her, using a prostitute's butt as writing table !

These are just a couple of references. The list would be infinte, stemming from every culture.

Don't interpret me to mean that Eminem or 50-cent are our modern-day Homer. Simply that these themes in rap music do not put it outside of the world of art, to the contrary they are perfectly coherent with great artistic achievement.


I'm sorry but I don't blush - I'm 20, not 14..

I read Homer when I was 12, needless to say probably missed a lot of things.

Still, find me anything from the classical literature that is as explicit as any 50 cent song. I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing but I am just really interested why rap would be so culture friendly.. I have no problem with sex, but 50 cent's "stuff" makes me want to vomit my insides. You call that art?... That's tragic.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: "classical" music and rap/hip-hop
FunkyLlama #1463344 06/26/10 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by FunkyLlama
Originally Posted by AngelinaPogorelich
Is it just me, or is it just plain inappropriate to be singing about shooting people, girls' behinds or certain sexual activities? Who the heck wants to listen to that? I hear enough swearing in my own practice room, and frankly I think whatever happens in the bedroom (or wherever..) shouldn't be publicized for millions to know. The only rapper I have/had respect for was 2Pac.
Are you objecting to this because you find it offensive, or is it because you consider it dangerous to society in some way?


A bit of both. I find it a tiny bit offensive to women.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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