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Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1457805
06/16/10 06:41 PM
06/16/10 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted by 27Jan
As one who has shopped and purchased a digital piano recently, I can attest to the fact that a, the Yamaha CP1 and CP 5 do not have a graded hammer action and b, It is of very little consequence that they don't.


I absolutely disagree with this. If you are wanting to do AP work, the graded action does in fact make a significant difference.


If you want to really be serious about playing an acoustic piano action, then get an acoustic piano; graded hammers or not, all digital pianos have actions that are much lighter than any acoustic grand piano action.

A graded hammer action just means than some of the keys are even lighter than others.



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Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne] #1457821
06/16/10 06:57 PM
06/16/10 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne


all digital pianos have actions that are much lighter than any acoustic grand piano action.




There you go again, Dave, making sweeping statements.

"All" digital piano actions are not lighter than "any" acoustic grand actions.

I have played several digitals that had heavier actions than grand pianos.

Snazzy





Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne] #1457828
06/16/10 07:05 PM
06/16/10 07:05 PM
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Melodialworks Music Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne

If you want to really be serious about playing an acoustic piano action, then get an acoustic piano; graded hammers or not, all digital pianos have actions that are much lighter than any acoustic grand piano action.


You might say "many" but it's not valid to say "all".

I recently played a grand where the action was MUCH lighter than my RD-700GX, for example. I'll note the builder of the piano next time I'm at the store.

Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1457829
06/16/10 07:06 PM
06/16/10 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
Originally Posted by Dave Horne


all digital pianos have actions that are much lighter than any acoustic grand piano action.




There you go again, Dave, making sweeping statements.

"All" digital piano actions are not lighter than "any" acoustic grand actions.

I have played several digitals that had heavier actions than grand pianos.

Snazzy


I have never played a digital piano that made me sweat. I have played many acoustic grands that made me work for my money.

You tell me which digital pianos were heavy and perhaps someone here with more time on their hands can apply weights to the keys to see just what is needed to depress that heavy digital key.


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Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne] #1457839
06/16/10 07:22 PM
06/16/10 07:22 PM
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Kawai James Offline
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The perceived 'weight' of both digital and acoustic piano keyboard actions can vary from brand to brand, and sometimes across series' of models within the same brand.

Furthermore, acoustic piano keyboard actions (and even some digital piano keyboard actions) can be regulated to adjust the perceived 'weight' of the key stroke to feel lighter or heavier depending on the player's preference.

Finally, keyboard 'weight' can be measured in both static and dynamic terms - it is arguably too simplistic to simply state that keyboard A is heavier than keyboard B.

By the way, how did this thread about a chap wishing to buy a piano for the love of his life descend into yet another argument about the merits of acoustic vs digital keyboard actions?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1457844
06/16/10 07:28 PM
06/16/10 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted by 27Jan
As one who has shopped and purchased a digital piano recently, I can attest to the fact that a, the Yamaha CP1 and CP 5 do not have a graded hammer action and b, It is of very little consequence that they don't.


I absolutely disagree with this. If you are wanting to do AP work, the graded action does in fact make a significant difference.


By the way, how did this thread about a chap wishing to buy a piano for the love of his life descend into yet another argument about the merits of acoustic vs digital keyboard actions?

See above ... smile


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne] #1457848
06/16/10 07:32 PM
06/16/10 07:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Yes, that was a somewhat rhetorical question...

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne] #1457931
06/16/10 10:17 PM
06/16/10 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne



I have never played a digital piano that made me sweat. I have played many acoustic grands that made me work for my money.



That's more of an indication your antiperspirant is working. wink

Originally Posted by Dave Horne


I have played many acoustic grands that made me work for my money.




Must have just been your poor luck to run into such a string of poorly maintained or improperly regulated instruments. wink

Snazzy


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1457957
06/16/10 11:04 PM
06/16/10 11:04 PM
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Melodialworks Music Offline
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Good grief. This is the digital piano forum, is it not? And digital pianos include, well, ACOUSTIC PIANO sounds, last time I checked.

By AP I meant Acoustic Piano on the CP1 / CP5. I don't agree that the lack of graded action on the CP1 / CP5 is not important. It apparently is fine for electric pianos. I wasn't referring to the action on acoustic pianos, but the acoustic piano patches on the CP1 / CP5. I thought that this thread was about the CP1 / CP5 and so that was what I was commenting on. I bought the CP1 for only AP use, and ended up returning it. I do not recommend the action in it. It is lacking for several reasons, ONE of which is the lack of graded, which I will repeat IS INDEED very important.

Hopefully that at least makes my position clear - especially to James and Dave!


Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Kawai James] #1457966
06/16/10 11:26 PM
06/16/10 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Yes, that was a somewhat rhetorical question...

Cheers,
James
x


Yes it was James, and it was the first time I've ever seen you ask one. wink

Snazzy



Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1458042
06/17/10 04:00 AM
06/17/10 04:00 AM
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Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Offline
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Fully accept we have gone off topic...but need to have my say!

What Dave is saying is absolute rubbish. ALL DPs have lighter actions than ALL APs...just nonsense. As Snazzy says, it's just a sweeping statement, a generalisation. For what it's worth I did use some small kitchen scale weights a while ago. The heavier bass notes on a Clavinova with GH3 action were something in the region of 80g. What surprised me is that the keys on my V-Piano at the time were maybe 60g ish. This difference was reflected across the keyboard. However, I perceived the V-Piano to have a slightly weightier action so the precise weight alone does not tell the whole story.

Steve


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: EssBrace] #1458054
06/17/10 04:37 AM
06/17/10 04:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,442
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content
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Interesting, I look at the profiles of the good folks here and can learn no substantive information about their actual playing ability or history.

Nonsense I say, just nonsense. smile


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Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne] #1458057
06/17/10 04:59 AM
06/17/10 04:59 AM
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Dave Horne Online content
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Quote
My background in playing is limited. What I'm looking for is for my wife to have the sound and feel of a piano, without actually buying an acoustic model.


Have you ruled out the Yamaha AvantGrand N2? Your wife would have a real grand piano action in a very nice upright piano case. The added advantage is the grand piano action, since no digital keyboard action will replace the feel of a real acoustic grand piano action - graded hammers or not. wink


[Linked Image]


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Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne] #1458069
06/17/10 06:30 AM
06/17/10 06:30 AM
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Melodialworks Music Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne


Have you ruled out the Yamaha AvantGrand N2? Your wife would have a real grand piano action in a very nice upright piano case. The added advantage is the grand piano action, since no digital keyboard action will replace the feel of a real acoustic grand piano action - graded hammers or not. wink


[Linked Image]


Nice photo, but realize that you'll likely need to have the lid raised to get the best sound, which certainly impacts the aesthetics. The photo at the official website (avant-grand.com) shows the N2 with the lid raised.

Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1458071
06/17/10 06:36 AM
06/17/10 06:36 AM
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Quote
Nice photo, but realize that you'll likely need to have the lid raised to get the best sound, which certainly impacts the aesthetics. The photo at the official website (avant-grand.com) shows the N2 with the lid raised.


Sigh, yes, much like an acoustic piano, the lid can be opened for a more richer sound.


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Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Melodialworks Music] #1458087
06/17/10 08:03 AM
06/17/10 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music



Nice photo, but realize that you'll likely need to have the lid raised to get the best sound, which certainly impacts the aesthetics. The photo at the official website (avant-grand.com) shows the N2 with the lid raised.


Actually, Lawrence, I think the Avant Grand N2 is pretty homely with the lid raised, or closed.

It's like my my old mother-in-law...unbalanced. wink

Leaving the lid closed also negatively affects the sound...it is meant to be left open.

A no-win situation, no matter how you look at it.

Of course, this is purely my own opinion, my friend.

Snazzy


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1458096
06/17/10 08:24 AM
06/17/10 08:24 AM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content
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Quote
Leaving the lid closed also negatively affects the sound...it is meant to be left open.


So, you've played it and can report back back on the sound with the lid open and closed?


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Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: Dave Horne] #1458102
06/17/10 08:52 AM
06/17/10 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
Quote
Leaving the lid closed also negatively affects the sound...it is meant to be left open.


So, you've played it and can report back back on the sound with the lid open and closed?


(Sigh)What a silly question, Dave. smirk

Of course I have played it...how else would I know?

I've also owned an N3 for several months, which I have since sold.

I'm not quite sure I'd hang my hat on any opinions you might have about the N2, Dave; considering your last blanket statement that all digital pianos have a lighter action than any acoustic grand pianos, I'm now inclined to view your reviews with the proverbial grain of salt.

Snazzy


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1458107
06/17/10 09:07 AM
06/17/10 09:07 AM
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I'm now inclined to view your reviews with the proverbial grain of salt.

Most folks from ... Earth might agree with you. laugh


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Re: Yamaha CP1 versus CP5 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1458111
06/17/10 09:15 AM
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It's strange that the Yamaha designers seemed to go out of their way to make the N3 look like a typical baby grand, whereas with the N2 they did not opt to make it look like a typical upright (or vertical). Trying for a so-called modern look, I guess. I would use another term to describe the look!

As Chef Ramsay would say "disappointing".


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