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First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 #1457630
06/16/10 01:34 PM
06/16/10 01:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
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ChrisA Offline OP
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I found an electric piano simulator that I liked last night. Until this one I'd not liked most of them.

"Lounge Lizard EP-3" is a physical model of an EP that can model both the Rhodes and Wurlizer. Sampling an EP just does not work because the point of an EP to me is you can adjust and craft the sound much like a guitarist would. This is a modeller like Pianoteq but for EPs. It has the advantages of all models, over samples, mostly being very responsive. not level switching, loops or note stretching

There are so many controls that I'd never learn what they all did but they have a good set of pre-sets. The pre-sets are organized two ways one is with descriptive names like "Cool Rhodes" and then another set of pre-sets named after well known songs. For example one is called "Doors - Riders on the Storm" and nails the EP sound on that old Doors track.

All that said, I'm not an EP expert and I've never played a real Rhodes. They have a free downloadable demo and I'd be interested in what others think of this, so far I think they did a great job. I think it beats the heck out of the EP sounds in my Yamaha P155 and also those that Apple supplies

I had some latency issues on my iMac but I was running VMware with a Windows XP session going, web browser and doing a backup. I killed all that and latency went to undetectable.

There are two versions one for MSRP $199 and another for $99. They say it runs one even low end PCs and Macs. The software runs standalone or as a plug-in. I tested it as a plug-in running inside Logic.

Applied Acustics EP

The company has some other products which are interesting. But I've only read their web site. Some guitar simulators, a generalized string modeller that claims to be able to do an acoustic piano or violin, and a very complex general purpose analog synth with unlimited numbers of VFOs, filters, envelope generators and so on.

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Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: ChrisA] #1457633
06/16/10 01:44 PM
06/16/10 01:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 983
Earth
snazzyplayer Offline
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Nice simulator...the lack of reverb effect is strange, as most Rhodes and Wurly were played through a Fender Twin Reverb amplifier.

Snazzy


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1457647
06/16/10 02:12 PM
06/16/10 02:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 870
Lakewood, CA
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galaxy4t Offline
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Lounge Lizard comes bundled in Acoustica's Mixcraft 5 as a electric piano plug-in. It emulates Fender Rhodes electric pianos. I thought it sounded fabulous when I tried out the trial verison of Mixcraft 5 which I think is a pretty awesome DAW for $74.95.

Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1457675
06/16/10 02:57 PM
06/16/10 02:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,842
Redondo Beach, California
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ChrisA Offline OP
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ChrisA  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
Nice simulator...the lack of reverb effect is strange, as most Rhodes and Wurly were played through a Fender Twin Reverb amplifier.

Snazzy


Reverb is in there. The screen shot only shows the "B" pannel. There is another to control effects. That is what the "A/B" switch at the top does. It looks like the "B" panel controls the piano and "A" is the amp and recording setup. Notice the picture has the "B" button depressed. Took me a while to notice this

But most people would run this EP inside a DAW and then you'd have a much more sophisticated reverb and if you like detailed amplifier models that also run as plug-ins.

But even when run as a stand along I found it has a wide range of reverb and tremolo controls.

Last edited by ChrisA; 06/16/10 03:08 PM.
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: ChrisA] #1457711
06/16/10 03:54 PM
06/16/10 03:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 983
Earth
snazzyplayer Offline
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That's cool to hear it has reverb, Chris....I couldn't imagine a Rhodes without it.

I think the idea of modeling is perfect for electric piano sounds.

Snazzy


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1457771
06/16/10 05:51 PM
06/16/10 05:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,505
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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I may have to check out Lounge Lizard once again.

While the raw EP sound is obviously very important, I also believe the role of the amp in recreating that classic, warm Rhodes sound is often underestimated.

The EPs in Pianoteq for example sound really terrific, and are very playable, however they are perhaps a little too sterile. Amp simulator plugins can undoubtedly transform this tonal character, however the world of VSTs can be overwhelming for folks that just wish to turn on, sit down, and play.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: Kawai James] #1457987
06/17/10 12:20 AM
06/17/10 12:20 AM
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pianodilemma Offline
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Thanks for the review. Very interesting, and sounds like I should give it a whirl.

I've heard that the Key Performer suite is also very good, and seems to be cheaper and includes more (though I'm not fond of the APs in that package). http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=38

What I'm looking for is a good sim of a Vox Continental, which was a very signature sound for The Doors and a few others.


RD-700GX + SN Piano Expansion
If you're playing and you know it, wash your hands! If you're playing and you know it, no sanitizer!
If you're playing and you know it, and don't want your keys to show it,
If you're playing and you know it, clip your nails!
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: pianodilemma] #1458043
06/17/10 04:05 AM
06/17/10 04:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21
M.Schreck Offline
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http://www.genuinesoundware.com/

These are great, you should check them out!

Great organ sim, including Farfisa and Vox,
and I must say MrRay73 Mark II (Rhodes) sounds much better than Lounge Lizard 3. Though Pianoteq is maybe the greatest of them all, they really nailed it with EPs, not so much with APs..

Last edited by M.Schreck; 06/19/10 02:20 AM.
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: M.Schreck] #1458777
06/18/10 10:25 AM
06/18/10 10:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 76
sc
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jazzonebyone Offline
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I've used LL for a few years - it sounds fully as rough as my real Rhodes - and is much easier to carry !
I use it with Rax on a Mac laptop for performances. I often layer it on some of my Yamaha P-250 instruments.



Baldwin L - Rhodes 73
Yamaha P250 - Nord NP88
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: M.Schreck] #1458891
06/18/10 01:48 PM
06/18/10 01:48 PM
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Posts: 100
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pianodilemma Offline
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Originally Posted by M.Schreck
http://www.genuinesoundware.com/

These are great, you should check them out!

Great organ sim, including Farfisa and Vox,
and I must say MrRay73 Mark II (Rhodes) sounds much better then Lounge Lizard 3. Though Pianoteq is maybe the greatest of them all, they really nailed it with EPs, not so much with APs..


Couldn't find any Vox samples, and not clear where that functionality is.


RD-700GX + SN Piano Expansion
If you're playing and you know it, wash your hands! If you're playing and you know it, no sanitizer!
If you're playing and you know it, and don't want your keys to show it,
If you're playing and you know it, clip your nails!
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: pianodilemma] #1458976
06/18/10 05:12 PM
06/18/10 05:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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Sydney, Australia
I have both Pianoteq and LL, and I prefer Pianoteq for both tone and behaviour, although the effects in LL are better. However, I feel that LL is a more "honest" model, because when the parameters are pushed to extremes, the sound is more like I would imagine it to be than Pianoteq. Pianoteq seems to struggle a bit when the parameters are pushed.

There's one little thing that really bugs me with LL at the moment, and that is that the behaviour with repeated notes with the sustain pedal isn't right - every note sounds exactly the same, which makes it sound very bland. In earlier versions, repeated notes would sound quite different, which is much more authentic. However, sometimes the notes would be extremely loud. It appears to me that they disabled the note repetition modelling altogether to eliminate the loud note problem.

Changing parameters in Pianoteq is much easier. In LL, a change can make a small range of notes sound better, but ruin the rest of the range. This is one of the great things about Pianoteq.

Neither are quite as authentic in terms of tone as sampled version though, IMHO. For a Wurly, the most authentic modelled tone I've heard yet is from Mokafix Audio's "Blue Reeds". However, overall it didn't stack up for me for playability and I haven't bought this one yet. A side note: if you try their free "Glue Reeds", note that this is actually the sound of the Pianet T, which did NOT use glue impregnated pads - it used special rubber which was inherently slightly sticky. The Pianet that DID use glue impregnated pads was the Pianet N and other derivatives, and this sound is much more sought after I think.

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 06/18/10 05:22 PM.
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: sullivang] #1459081
06/18/10 08:08 PM
06/18/10 08:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,505
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Greg, thank you for your great post!

I'm currently looking for a VST that recreates the sound of the Pianet after posting this query on the Pianoteq forum.

Looks like I'll have to give Blue/Glue Reeds a try!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: Kawai James] #1459104
06/18/10 09:03 PM
06/18/10 09:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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sullivang  Offline
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Yes, well, as I said, I doubt that Glue Reeds is what you want. smile It's a mellow, bland sound IMHO. On the other hand, the Pianet sound that you probably want is quite similar to a Wurly, and Blue Reeds might be good enough for both sounds, given that it can be tweaked. (you might also get a Pianet sound out of Pianoteq's Wurly, as mentioned in that Pianoteq forum thread. Btw, I am "Skip" over on the Piantoteq forum, and I have posted in that thread smile

Have you tried the sampled Pianet from Native Instruments/Scarbee?

Greg.

Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: sullivang] #1459111
06/18/10 09:13 PM
06/18/10 09:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,505
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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My apologies Greg!

I realised that you had already contributed to the Pianoteq thread just after posting my response here.

Oh dear!
[climbs into hole]

Anyway, to answer your query, I have not tried the NI/Scarbee Pianet. Before I got the Electro2 I used to use Elektrik Piano on my old laptop, MIDI'd upped to and old Korg. I'll perhaps have to check out the demos on NI's website again.

Thanks again for the suggestions - both here and over in the Pianoteq thread!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: Kawai James] #1459113
06/18/10 09:18 PM
06/18/10 09:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
No apologies - I didn't expect you to figure out my other nick name. smile

Just btw, I actually own both types of Pianets - a Pianet T (the boring one), and a Combo Pianet (one of the good ones!)

Greg.

Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: pianodilemma] #1459209
06/19/10 02:25 AM
06/19/10 02:25 AM
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Posts: 21
M.Schreck Offline
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@pianodilemma

VB3 http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=24
replicates Hammond as well as Vox and Fafrisa.

Last edited by M.Schreck; 06/19/10 02:29 AM.
Re: First impressions of Lounge Lizard EP-3 [Re: M.Schreck] #1459302
06/19/10 11:53 AM
06/19/10 11:53 AM
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pianodilemma Offline
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Originally Posted by M.Schreck
@pianodilemma

VB3 http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=24
replicates Hammond as well as Vox and Fafrisa.


I was actually looking at the other combo package, thinking it just included VB3 without looking at the VB3 page more closely. The question is, what does it sound like? No sound samples of the transistor organs when they're supposed to be there is kind of silly.


RD-700GX + SN Piano Expansion
If you're playing and you know it, wash your hands! If you're playing and you know it, no sanitizer!
If you're playing and you know it, and don't want your keys to show it,
If you're playing and you know it, clip your nails!

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