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Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
snazzyplayer #1454230 06/10/10 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer

It's so strange that an acoustic piano's greatest strength, which is the lushness and fullness of tone due to it's inherent "slight imperfections", is also it's biggest weakness.


I have a service manual for an old Hammond organ. It has a warning not to tune the organ to "perfection". The organ was an analog device and there were 24 screwdriver adjustment points for pitch. The book said to tune it by ear listening for beats and leave it it that. They said not to use laboratory grade frequency counters. Then (unlike most service manuals) they give the reason why, they said that those slight variation in tune is what gives the organ it's unique sound and character. They go on to say the same applies to a violin section of an orchestra, that each is not in perfect tune. I think even back in the 1940's they knew what you wrote above. it's the quirks and inperfections that make the sound seen real.

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Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
ChrisA #1454236 06/10/10 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisA
I think even back in the 1940's they knew what you wrote above. it's the quirks and inperfections that make the sound seen real.


Like I said, bad notes!

Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
Melodialworks Music #1454243 06/10/10 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted by ChrisA
I think even back in the 1940's they knew what you wrote above. it's the quirks and inperfections that make the sound seen real.


Like I said, bad notes!


Exactly! thumb


Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
snazzyplayer #1454247 06/10/10 08:05 PM
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Snazzy must be feeling very mellow. He's agreeing with everyone! (Or his medication is FINALLY adjusted properly!)

Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
Melodialworks Music #1454253 06/10/10 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
Snazzy must be feeling very mellow. He's agreeing with everyone! (Or his medication is FINALLY adjusted properly!)


Yes, yes, and yes. grin



Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
snazzyplayer #1454274 06/10/10 08:52 PM
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I'm feeling better after spending a few hours on the card. It does have a lot of character. The grandpiano4 is nice. I think what gives it an edge is the 'roughness' of the sound. Gettin' better all the time.

Last edited by Mafew J; 06/11/10 12:05 PM.
Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
Mafew J #1454470 06/11/10 05:08 AM
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Yes I think subjectively it gets better the more you get to know it.

Another vote for Grand Piano 4 here!

Another vote for an imaginary cocktail of Avant Grand N3 with SN sound engine!

Another vote for the V-Piano being a flop! Although perhaps a flawed diamond might be kinder because what it does well (playability) it does better than anything.

Lawrence, post a link on this thread to your tweak 4...will open people's eyes to what SN is capable of...astoundingly acoustic piano-like.

One other comment...others have said the Yamaha sound has become embedded in our consciousness but thinking about it, I'm not quite so sure...I just think it is a kind of brightness that people initially expect (and Yamaha happens to deliver). The vast majority of pianos in popular music are EQ'd to make them unbelievably bright...they sound right in a mix but would sound unbearable as a solo instrument. I happened to listen last night to Van Morrison's "Wonderful Remark"...now that piano sound is just disgusting but it sort of works...and is typical of pop music pianos. It is this mental imprint of a piano sound that many of us have in our heads. After a little while with the SN pianos you soon become re-educated. My opinion anyway.

Cheers,

Steve


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Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
EssBrace #1454473 06/11/10 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace


Lawrence, post a link on this thread to your tweak 4...will open people's eyes to what SN is capable of...astoundingly acoustic piano-like.



I will, if and when I can figure out how to get the damper noise to record.

Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
EssBrace #1454483 06/11/10 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace


Another vote for an imaginary cocktail of Avant Grand N3 with SN sound engine!

Another vote for the V-Piano being a flop! Although perhaps a flawed diamond might be kinder because what it does well (playability) it does better than anything.


I still plan to test using the N3 / N2 to control the RD/SN, which might give me the best of both worlds. I'm also looking into a Yamaha AP with MIDI (I suspect the identical optical sensor system found in the N3 / N2.)

Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
snazzyplayer #1456582 06/14/10 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by snazzyplayer
Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted by theJourney
Makes it sound almost human.


Yes, APs are really alive, as compared with DPs, although properly tweaked the RD/SN is pretty darn convincing.


Given a choice, I'd quite likely choose the Roland RD-700 or the Avant Grand N3.

Anything else is not that much better than my P-85 to consider.

Thankfully, I'm content with the P-85/S910 combo right now, and not really needing something new.

The RD/SN is about the nicest and most accurate piano I've heard...especially if you want something close to the Steinway sound.

Snazzy


I concur in regards to sounding most like a Steinway. I've played the 7' Steinway (not sure the model) at my Jazz school here in Nashville numerous times the sounds coming out of my RD/SN are quite close to me. All in all, we have to remember that these are digital pianos, and to me, the RD/SN combo, is as good as it gets for a flexible digital stage piano in both action/sound.


Kawai MP7SE w/ GFP-3
Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
PianoZac #1457103 06/15/10 12:12 PM
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Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
Dave Ferris #1457180 06/15/10 02:13 PM
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Dave,

I strongly agree, the Superior Grand is the best sound on the stock RD-700GX. I believe the SN sounds (except Grand Piano 1) are mainly based around something tonally closely related to the Superior Grand...but, with a much more compelling bass (the Superior has a somewhat unpleasant dryness to the bass - as do almost all the stock 88 key sampled RD-700GX pianos) and a total absence of the looping and velocity switching that is clearly audible on the Superior.

In short, if you like the Superior you will like the SN Grand Piano 4 (and 2) very much indeed in my opinion. I also agree with you - I don't like the Expressive Grand too much and personally find the SN Grand Piano 1 (which I assume is the SN GP sound featured in the video you linked to) to be a somewhat super-natural'd Expressive Grand...better than the Expressive but with something of that tonality.

Hope this helps,

Steve


C. Bechstein Model B | Roland RD-1000 |
Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
Dave Ferris #1457257 06/15/10 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
This previously posted link is the best demo of the SN card for the 700GX that I've heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSr1onqpEZk

There's something going on with the stereo field in that video. The non-SN piano sounds like it's inside a small box. And the audio quality in the video is fairly poor, I hear strange buzzing and chiffing - I believe from too much audio compression.

Here's a different comparison where It's much harder for me to tell which one is SN and which one is not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcFxnqpbqbQ

Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
dewster #1457320 06/15/10 07:49 PM
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Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
EssBrace #1457322 06/15/10 07:53 PM
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Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
Dave Ferris #1457493 06/16/10 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
I actually prefer the demo with "La fille aux cheveux de lin" to "Let It be"- and I'm a huge Beatles fan. smile I agree the audio is not optimum in the Debussy vid.

I prefer that video too, without a doubt. The material and the way it is played is quite intimate and revealing. Too bad about the audio quality though.

Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
Dave Ferris #1457625 06/16/10 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Dave,

I strongly agree, the Superior Grand is the best sound on the stock RD-700GX.


I personally liked the Ultimate Piano the best when my RD was stock. I think the Superior Grand sounded cheap for some reason. The Expressive grand sounded good from the bottom to the upper mid range, but once on top, it started sounding 'tinny' and the touch (even on Super Heavy) became too sensitive.

As I've said before, one of the things I first noticed after I installed the SN card, the action/feel became so much more authentic to me. I honestly 'play' my RD the way I play an acoustic grand. What's amazing too, is I came from a CP300 to the RD-700GX last summer, and thought the RD sounded so much better then, let alone now with the SN card upgrade. As far as action, the RD-700GX is vastly superior to most other digital stage pianos IMHO.

Last edited by PianoZac; 06/16/10 12:27 PM.

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Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
PianoZac #1473315 07/13/10 03:52 AM
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Guitar Center doesn't have the GXF yet, and they don't seem to be expecting it anytime soon. Its the same for GX expansion kit. I've called them, but they don't seem to know anything. Does anyone have any information on that?

How do places like Sweetwater get them this much in advance of Guitar Center. Because they sell higher volume? Or might they be taking GXs, putting in the expansion kit themselves and selling them a GXFs.

Ever since I saw the UPS guy *literally* drop my new 27" TV from the delivery truck to the ground, I avoid ordering on-line whenever possible. :| (that TV died a little over a year later)

.

Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
box #1481016 07/25/10 06:56 AM
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Received my GXF a few days ago. I'm quite pleased with it and am happy to retire my old, bright sounding Yahama.

Before I purchased I looked into the key wear issue thing. I asked around and got an official response from Roland. This information may already be out there somewhere, but here it is again, for those who are considering the GX: Yes, there were very few cases (one in several thousands). The cause was most likely the use of an alcohol based hand product, like Purell (which I believe is a waterless hand sanitizer). Alcohol is very bad for the GX keys.

edit: or use of a cleaning solvent (alcohol, benzene, thinner)

I'm looking for a keyboard stand now. This looks like it would be pretty sturdy. Anyone use one of these before?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...55_18810_Omega_Table_Style_Keyboard.html

.

Last edited by box; 07/25/10 11:42 AM.
Re: RD-700GXF v. RD-700GX with RD-700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano
box #1481047 07/25/10 09:05 AM
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Thanks for that info box! Glad to hear you are enjoying the RD + SN.

Originally Posted by box
I'm looking for a keyboard stand now. This looks like it would be pretty sturdy. Anyone use one of these before?

I've never seen or used it. And wow, B&H sure charges a lot for their stands, and they are non-returnable.

Personally, I'd go with either of these:
http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/?p=productsMore&iProduct=70&sName=M-91
http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/?p=productsMore&iProduct=27&sName=WS-550

Shop around, either can be had for less than $100 USD.

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