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Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney] #1452850 06/08/10 04:48 PM
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CyberGene Online Content OP
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mucci, I will have to test this thing again, because I did the tests two days ago but wrote my remarks today. Currently the piano is in our bedroom and my wife is already sleeping and she would kill me if I start banging on keys at that time smile

P.S. Actually one of the things I test digital pianos first is playing very quick arpeggio passages with damper pedal hold starting from the bass, going through midrange, then upper range, then again middle, then high and so on. This is a test for polyphony issues and fortunately the Kawai passes it but maybe that was the test at which the damper resonance also stops at some point. But it may be my mistake regarding the number of notes, it may not be 10, but instead 50-100, who knows... I will recheck that again tomorrow and will do a fairly realistic arpeggio scenario which will reveal that shortcoming.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney] #1452853 06/08/10 04:49 PM
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mucci Offline
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theJourney, again a very poor and baseless comment from your side.

Firstly, commenting the way you do on a public forum is not "needed advice", as you state, it is bashing, because it is negative marketing. If you would really care for Kawai, you would send them your comments without telling the whole world how bad their marketing is in your view.

Secondly, I'm not cheerleading Kawai, neither with or without base... In contrary to you I have bought the product and, as you should know as a long time reader of my posts, provide hopefully very baseful information about the pros and cons of the DP. You state the contrary although you should know better, that's a shame.

Sorry, couldn't resist.


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: mucci] #1452859 06/08/10 04:54 PM
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CyberGene, I know you're very serious in your attempt to identify issues. Knowing that I repeated the test you made (my wife is also already sleeping, but fortunately the DP is in our living room!), and - Oooops - I could reproduce the issue! It happens exactly after the 10th keystroke! I didn't realize that until now! I sometime just had the feeling something is wrong after playing long arpeggios with damper down, but couldn't identify what it is, now I know, the damper resonance just stops working after the 10th keystroke.

It is really easily reproductible with pressing down the same key 10 times. The first 9 times the sound is with damper resonance, after that it's gone. It also happens if you press different keys.

KawaiJames, that's really an issue. I can clearly hear it when playing damper intense pieces, but until now I couldn't identify the reason for it.

That's a serious issue and should be fixed!

Thanks, CyberGene, for detecting this!


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: mucci] #1452862 06/08/10 04:58 PM
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CyberGene:
On cabinetry, would you please check the gap between the last key on the right and the console?
When I took a look at the CA63 keys/console assembly I noticed this right away, I could clearly see the particle board underneath (beneath the gap). I’m wondering if this sample/floor-demo was assembled incorrectly. But I expect this to be factory-assembled being the piano section itself, and assuming the console-stand being site assembled.

Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: mucci] #1452884 06/08/10 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mucci
theJourney, again a very poor and baseless comment from your side.

Firstly, commenting the way you do on a public forum is not "needed advice", as you state, it is bashing, because it is negative marketing. If you would really care for Kawai, you would send them your comments without telling the whole world how bad their marketing is in your view.

Secondly, I'm not cheerleading Kawai, neither with or without base... In contrary to you I have bought the product and, as you should know as a long time reader of my posts, provide hopefully very baseful information about the pros and cons of the DP. You state the contrary although you should know better, that's a shame.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
Mucci, don't feel like you're wrong here, the Kawai CA63 is not theJourney's only victim. His MO in baseless bashing extends to other products in other threads as well, the Avant-Grand included.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: Volusiano] #1453115 06/09/10 01:56 AM
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Quote

Post-purchase rationalization is a common phenomenon after people have invested significant time, money, or effort in something to convince themselves that it must have been worth it. Many decisions are made emotionally, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice...

This rationalization is based on the principle of commitment and the psychological desire to stay consistent to that commitment. Some authorities would also consider this rationalization a manifestation of cognitive dissonance.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization

Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney] #1453119 06/09/10 02:18 AM
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Nothing new, that link was already posted also from me.

What about this: url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer%27s_remorse

But what is your post other than another baseless posting from you, not man enough to comment on my remarks or to post something useful in this respect? Think about that, and then try a second time. Maybe even the impossible happens, and you might admit that I'm right?


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: mucci] #1453170 06/09/10 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mucci
theJourney, again a very poor and baseless comment from your side.

Firstly, commenting the way you do on a public forum is not "needed advice", as you state, it is bashing, because it is negative marketing. If you would really care for Kawai, you would send them your comments without telling the whole world how bad their marketing is in your view.

Secondly, I'm not cheerleading Kawai, neither with or without base... In contrary to you I have bought the product and, as you should know as a long time reader of my posts, provide hopefully very baseful information about the pros and cons of the DP. You state the contrary although you should know better, that's a shame.

Sorry, couldn't resist.



As you can see in my previosu post, mucci, I was responding to Volusiano, not to you.

I do not appreciate your immature insults and personal attacks and hope that you will choose to focus on issues rather than your fellow posters in the future.

As to your comment that I am engaging in negative marketing, I say poppycock.

I am repeatedly on record praising Kawai products including their action, including stating implicitly that for most of the world that has to do without reliable Kawai distribution, they might be considered the equivalent to a diamond in the rough. Those who know how to read a forum like this would realize that just because a company has a big name such as Yamaha with consistent product availability and with high quality, trained dealers, does not mean that they have the best products. My posts may have the effect of people going out of their way to buy a Kawai. On the other hand, for those not reading this forum, or buying more on impulse, not having Kawai pianos set up to show themselves well in a showroom is certainly a lamentable disadvantage -- one that could be easily worked around in the short term if Kawai had professional channel and distribution management and/or relationships with individual dealers. Your presumption that my only contacts with Kawai are through this forum are preposterous.

As to your posts, mucci nee Kawain, I believe that your avatar and posting record speaks for itself. I have certainly appreciated your long washlists of deficiencies and desired fixes for your CA63 which you have documented on this public forum rather than contacting the German distributor only (while sometimes too enthusiastically underplaying their importance to you personally as a committed owner of the product). Your feedback has been instrumental in moving my purchasing process away from the Kawai Concert Artist series line of digital pianos towards other alternatives. I am sure that I am not alone in having been influenced this way. Not sure if I would term your efforts as positive marketing for Kawai, however. Just as the gushy, uncritical support of the new Yamaha stage pianos and personal attacks of those who disagreed with them (much of which has since been deleted by posters themselves) was not positive for the Yamaha brand.

YMMV.

Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: theJourney] #1453192 06/09/10 07:09 AM
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mucci Offline
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Originally Posted by theJourney
I do not appreciate your immature insults and personal attacks and hope that you will choose to focus on issues rather than your fellow posters in the future.


I'll do so as long as the fellow posters do the same.

Originally Posted by theJourney

As to your comment that I am engaging in negative marketing, I say poppycock.


Whatever.

Originally Posted by theJourney

Your presumption that my only contacts with Kawai are through this forum are preposterous.


So you share your honorable advice to them also directly? How generous.

Originally Posted by theJourney

As to your posts, mucci nee Kawain, I believe that your avatar and posting record speaks for itself.


I didn't know I have an Avatar. So what does the record speak?

Originally Posted by theJourney

I have certainly appreciated your long washlists of deficiencies and desired fixes for your CA63 which you have documented on this public forum
[...]
Your feedback has been instrumental in moving my purchasing process away from the Kawai Concert Artist series line of digital pianos towards other alternatives. I am sure that I am not alone in having been influenced this way. Not sure if I would term your efforts as positive marketing for Kawai, however.


So now we're coming to the point. I thought this is the core purpose of a forum to talk about pros and cons of what your expertise is in (I can't talk too much about Yamaha and Roland since I don't own one, just played them in the store, so I don't have had enough time to identify all the issues they may have) to help other people make a purchase (for whatever DP they like) or to learn more about their instruments. So your favorite statement (Kawai has, according to you, virtually no marketing / support) is of course welcome when it comes down to comparing different aspects of a DP purchase, but adding almost countless posts regarding this regardless of whether it is or is not adequate is in my opinion spam or, as I already said, negative marketing.

If you feel that after my postings about Kawai shortcomings you move away from buying a CA model, then fine, that's your personal conclusion and it's reasonable depending on your DP needs. But it hopefully shows that my posts provide you with new useful information and are not positive marketing for Kawai. I never intended to do marketing for anyone. See my post about layering Kawai sound with Pianoteq sound - does this sound like I'm perfectly happy with the Kawai sound? grumble...

I'm sorry that I'm turning a little bit nasty here in the last few posts, but I'm getting tired of these specific bashing postings and thos postings accusing other people of being only enthusiastic about a purchase / being fanboys. I'm sure in a few hours my new postings are getting more enjoyable...


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: CyberGene] #1453198 06/09/10 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
[Linked Image]

Now, let's get back to the main topic of this thread wow


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: mucci] #1453215 06/09/10 08:39 AM
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theJourney Offline
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Originally Posted by mucci

I didn't know I have an Avatar. So what does the record speak?

Username and avatar are often used interchangeably in the English speaking world of international bulletin boards and community fora.

Yours was Kawaien en became mucci after it was pointed out that your posts were coming across as being subjectively biased towards the Kawai brand and having the appearance of low objectivity.
Originally Posted by mucci
I thought this is the core purpose of a forum to talk about pros and cons of what your expertise is...


Which is exactly what you are trying to censure others in doing themselves when they post things that you would rather not have repeated. Rather than try to play moderator and control the posts of others on the forum, it would be more productive and constructive to concentrate on improving your own contributions.

Originally Posted by mucci

So your favorite statement (Kawai has, according to you, virtually no marketing / support) is of course welcome when it comes down to comparing different aspects of a DP purchase

The fact that you think that this is my "favorite statement" shows that you are projecting your own biases onto my posting record. You will see that I am an active poster on a number of pianoworld fora and that Kawai's distribution is a minuscule part of my posting. You perceive it as large because the issue is important to you for some reason or because of a knee-jerk reaction of annoyance. Unfortunately, however, you failed to see that I made a constructive suggestion on how Kawai dealers (who also read this forum) can make the CA63 and CA93 line show and sell better in their showrooms. What exactly was your positive contribution based on your expertise regarding this issue? All I have seen until now is bad vibes.

Originally Posted by mucci

I'm sorry that I'm turning a little bit nasty ...


Apology accepted.

Last edited by theJourney; 06/09/10 08:42 AM.
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: TADutchman] #1453235 06/09/10 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by TADutchman
Originally Posted by CyberGene
[Linked Image]

Now, let's get back to the main topic of this thread wow


I repeat, as a picture says more than 1000 words! (by the way, my satin black CA93 doesn't have that red keyboard line finish) wink


K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: TADutchman] #1453257 06/09/10 09:49 AM
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It looks so beautiful actually... But the black is nicer!
And, something I really liked, the music books delivered with it are quite nice, what I really loved, just as a useless comment anyway, is that even if you are in europe, you get the books also with the (I guess) katakana typing under the original title.
Sounds like a fetish, but it adds to the affection smile

Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: TADutchman] #1453273 06/09/10 10:15 AM
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You're right, TADutchman, I stop anwering to his post with additional insults and accusations. It isn't worth it. It all started with a useless bashing post...

The last useful post was the issue list from CyberGene, when I remember correctly. And I discovered a quite severe bug that I could also reproduce on my CA63.

KawaiJames, please, this issue needs to be bugfixed, because it is quite noticeable with lots of damper usage!

As most of you might know, I just bought Pianoteq to layer the basic CA63 sound with this modeled piano, and it really helps to improve the overall sound experience. I now completely disabled all the resonances of the CA63 (Key off, string resonance, damper resonance), to just get the plain main piano sound, and it's even better after doing that. This is a good combination, but I would love to have a similar sound just right away out of my DP... *sniff*


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: mucci] #1453289 06/09/10 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mucci
You're right, TADutchman, I stop anwering to his post with additional insults and accusations. It isn't worth it. It all started with a useless bashing post...



They say, you shouldn't feed the trolls, not that the person in question is one, although it would be nice if he is not, that he would stop acting like one. wink

I always enjoy your posts, mucci, even though sometimes we do not agree...but, that's what makes this forum so interesting.

Snazzy



Semper Gumby: Always flexible \:^)
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: snazzyplayer] #1453302 06/09/10 10:44 AM
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Yes, I agree that we disagree from time to time... wink

But even then it is fun to discuss with you, since we aren't taking things too serious, and, of course, we have a similar sense of humor... laugh



<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: GasGuzz] #1453376 06/09/10 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GasGuzz
CyberGene:
On cabinetry, would you please check the gap between the last key on the right and the console?
When I took a look at the CA63 keys/console assembly I noticed this right away, I could clearly see the particle board underneath (beneath the gap). I’m wondering if this sample/floor-demo was assembled incorrectly. But I expect this to be factory-assembled being the piano section itself, and assuming the console-stand being site assembled.


Sorry, I have missed that question. Yes, there is some noticeable gap like 3-4mm on both sides of the keyboard. The whole upper body comes assembled from the factory, so I suppose it's by design. I wouldn't have noticed it though.

I appreciate the design and classy look more and more with every day. Whenever I go into the room and look at the smooth wooden finish, ivory colored keys, massive construction, golden pedals, and the great note rest which can easily accommodate 4-5 sheets of music, I get strong desire to sit and play for hours smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/09/10 12:18 PM.

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Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: CyberGene] #1453635 06/09/10 07:14 PM
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CyberGene, thank you for your positive comments about the CA63 design. The keyboard action, sound quality, and useful features are obviously the fundamental components of a good digital piano, however attractive design is also extremely important.

It's absolutely terrific to read that the CA63's appearance inspires you to play music. Indeed, I have already forwarded your kind words to the designer responsible for the CA93/CA63 cabinet - he was really thrilled...I think you've made his week. wink

Cheers,
James
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Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: Kawai James] #1453642 06/09/10 07:29 PM
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CyberGene, mucci, I have informed my colleagues in the R&D division of the damper resonance issue that you have raised.

However, please understand that my contribution to this forum is to answer queries about Kawai digital pianos products - I am not responsible for technical support.

As theJourney correctly notes, if you believe there is a problem with your instrument, you should contact the subsidiary company responsible for warranty and servicing. As I believe you have both purchased your instruments from dealers based in Europe, you should therefore contact Kawai Europe.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: My very first review of Kawai CA63 [Re: Kawai James] #1453794 06/10/10 12:59 AM
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KawaiJames, thanks for informing your colleagues. I have already informed Kawai Europe and posted the bug at the Kawai forum on their website.

I hope Kawai ist as responsive as they were with the first major bug detection back in February. I don't want theJourney to be proved correct regarding his Kawai bashing... wink


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
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